PC Level gating. Why it ok for other games but not 7DTD

If the dev's cant find a good balance of perks, skills, and gates, I am sure the community will. That's the beauty of this new framework, it is fully moddable.
Perhaps the dev's will even borrow the communities modded skill/perk tree if it does a better job balancing the different play styles. :)
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I certainly do hope TFP looks at some of the more popular mods and considers whether they've introduced mechanics that may work for the base game. There can be, indeed, there should be, a good "cross-polination" between the base game and mods - if a mod introduces something that TFP thinks would work well for the base game, then they could import it. Similarly, the base game, being so moddable is what permits the community to find so many new and varied ways to add to it.

 
Level gating


  • restricts gameplay
  • makes the game boring
  • forces you to follow a set path
  • breaks immersion
  • makes the game repetitive
  • doesn't reward skilled players
  • it's an artifact that ruins the experience
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Level gating

  • sets pace
  • encourages you to scavenging
  • forces you to follow a set pace(no more exploiting game mechanics to power level to the end game before first horde arrives)
  • increases immersion(it takes some time to learn new things and you wouldn't start crafting girocopters 30 minutes after making your first bike)
  • makes the game repetitive, just like non gating does(because ALL zombie survival are repetitive)
  • doesn't reward skilled players nor does it not reward them, because the game is very easy and nothing rewards skilled players other then less materials/ammo/health spent
  • it's a staple of every game with RPG elements and literally all survival games with any kind of actual depth, which 7d is since perk system was implemented(and was supposed to be ever since first kickstarter vid appeared)

 
Things don't just happen in a bubble.

Level gating bad.

Result? Hunt more zombies for xp.

Loot removed from zombies. (Or drops a BP rarely).

Players are funneled into an unrewarding adventure of killing zombies for xp... Now if loot from zombies weren't nerfed (granted it was for purposes of 'performance improvement'), would it feel as bad? I don't know. But it definitely makes it worse!

 
Personally I think level gate and perk system is terrible in a17 just does not bring any enjoyment my game.

A16 was skill system much better plus you got experience for doing the things you enjoyed doing.

Now it is just kill zeds kill zeds kil some more zeds for what? A few points and eventually you may get the perk you need!

I want to build I want to have fun work towards a nice defence for hoard night (7 days to die)

7 days to prepare to die!!! not any more sadly :(

I work I do not have hours to spend grinding.

I want a nice sandbox zombie survival game to enjoy

 
Level gating is fine in itself, but it needs to match the players' pace, especially early on. In a 'perfect game', the unlocks happen right as, or just before, a player has run the full course of their current tier. Tuning that takes effort, playtesting, and being open to suggestions.
What's not fine is when the level gating holds back players ready to advance. 7DTD is not a curated, level-based experience. The zombies you face now are the same zombies you face later. You cut your teeth on the real deal and it goes uphill from here. In that environment, the priority is to hit the ground running.

And so in A17, we hit the ground running. By around level 5, you probably *really* hate the stone axe for all the things it does; everything badly. I usually hit level 5 by day 3. By then, I've ID'ed a reasonable base location and established a stash. Then the scavenging for food, loot, and resources starts in earnest. Only.. you can't 'resource'. Your tool is the worst thing this side of the moon, if the moon was made of ass.

Levels 5-10 is then spent suffering the indignity of a tool fit for 20th century BC cave hobos while you try to prepare for high school prom. That takes prep. That takes stone and metal and wood. The stone axe is NOT up to that task, and you can't count on RNJesus to save your ass.

Sure, you may get lucky and find some tools. You may even find something to repair them with, but it's not consistent. Level 10 hits, you really want to get this show rolling, but lo.. you still have that ever so effective (as birth control) stone axe and still 10 more levels before the game actually starts.
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Level 5 by day 3? the hell? I am lv 8-10 before the first night usually on a new game without even trying.

 
encourages you to scavenging
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How??

forces you to follow a set pace(no more exploiting game mechanics to power level to the end game before first horde arrives)
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That's more about difficulty and progression speed than the way things are gated.

increases immersion(it takes some time to learn new things and you wouldn't start crafting girocopters 30 minutes after making your first bike)
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You can think of it like the player already had skills in place to do a lot of those kinds of things. For example, the description on "grampa's kick ass recipes" implies the player had learned these things from their grandpa.

makes the game repetitive, just like non gating does(because ALL zombie survival are repetitive)
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That's kind of a dubious claim. (also SPAZ 2 as a counterpoint)

doesn't reward skilled players nor does it not reward them, because the game is very easy and nothing rewards skilled players other then less materials/ammo/health spent
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No, less gating means more choices for what to spend your points on and skilled players are better at dealing with that influx of information.

it's a staple of every game with RPG elements and literally all survival games with any kind of actual depth, which 7d is since perk system was implemented(and was supposed to be ever since first kickstarter vid appeared)
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Here are some games that serve as counterexamples, games that don't require a single master level to gate most abilities:

Dwarf Fortress, Space Pirates and Zombies 1(though the sequel gates a few things), Minecraft, SCP: SL & CB, early alphas of 7dtd, LOZ: BoTW, Dark Souls(I think, haven't played), Hurtworld, Binding of Issac, Lone Survivor, Organ Trail, just to name a few. I could come up with a lot longer of a list the more you stretch what counts as a survival game or an RPG.

 
Minecraft very very very successful wonder why?

The only reason they have done this style is because of people moaning about how other people play in a sandbox game!!

i.e. boo hoo he built a base underground etc !! so what it "was" a sandbox game so you could play the game how you like.

I do not care how you play your game that is your choice! forcing players to play the way you want is a big no no in a sandbox game in my view

 
Minecraft very very very successful wonder why?The only reason they have done this style is because of people moaning about how other people play in a sandbox game!!

i.e. boo hoo he built a base underground etc !! so what it "was" a sandbox game so you could play the game how you like.

I do not care how you play your game that is your choice! forcing players to play the way you want is a big no no in a sandbox game in my view
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Admittedly you lose some of the hardcore survival aspects when you go towards sandbox.

 
Minecraft very very very successful wonder why?The only reason they have done this style is because of people moaning about how other people play in a sandbox game!!

i.e. boo hoo he built a base underground etc !! so what it "was" a sandbox game so you could play the game how you like.

I do not care how you play your game that is your choice! forcing players to play the way you want is a big no no in a sandbox game in my view
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The bolded part is false. They have done this style because they think it is fun and they enjoy playing it. Period.

The game doesn’t play like Minecraft because they don’t like Minecraft.

That’s all. Please carry on discussion of the pros and the cons but there’s no need to speculate on the why. I’ve just shared the big secret.

 
Admittedly you lose some of the hardcore survival aspects when you go towards sandbox.
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But you have the choice of play style in a16 that makes this game unique to many other games out there. A17 looks fantastic to me I love the fact you can see birds nests and trees look amazing I just wish the game play of a16 was in there with a big ai improvement. I hope they balance it out which no dout they will and find the middle ground asap :)

 
Level gating[/size][/color]
  • forces you to follow a set pace(no more exploiting game mechanics to power level to the end game before first horde arrives)
  • increases immersion(it takes some time to learn new things and you wouldn't start crafting girocopters 30 minutes after making your first bike)
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I think these two claims will be hard to justify, well, let me re-phrase, the first I don't think is a positive, and the then second I don't think is accurate imho.

So let's look at forced pacing argument first. So, what is the positive of forcing a player into following a set pace? You could re-phrase that with your second point, what is the harm in allowing a player to level more quickly if that's what they choose to do?

The second point I quoted, is really hard to justify, given the arbitrary nature of "levels", how is my immersion improved as you claim by killing a zombie (or performing any other XP activity) suddenly giving me the epiphany of how to build a gyrocopter?

 
There has to be gating, anyone who thinks there shouldn't be any gating, has to rethink/realize how every game (aside from sandbox) works. There's gating everywhere.

Now as for level gating, it could have been done in a way that would still gate you like it does now, but it wouldn't look nearly as bad as it does at the moment. It's still an experimental.

Minecraft very very very successful wonder why?The only reason they have done this style is because of people moaning about how other people play in a sandbox game!!

i.e. boo hoo he built a base underground etc !! so what it "was" a sandbox game so you could play the game how you like.

I do not care how you play your game that is your choice! forcing players to play the way you want is a big no no in a sandbox game in my view
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Must have missed the game's description. It's ok happens a lot.

7 Days to Die is an open-world game that is a unique combination of first person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games.
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7 Days to Die thrusts players into the aftermath of the fall of civilization with only their wits and bare hands to survive.
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If you want a sandbox mode that is something between survival and creative that's what you must ask for instead of wanting the survival mode to change according to your tastes.

 
The bolded part is false. They have done this style because they think it is fun and they enjoy playing it. Period.
The game doesn’t play like Minecraft because they don’t like Minecraft.

That’s all. Please carry on discussion of the pros and the cons but there’s no need to speculate on the why. I’ve just shared the big secret.
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I never said it played like minecraft just stating the fact minecraft is a sanbox game that has done very well with no level gating.

I believe the level gating is very restrictive in a17 in its current form and as an avid a16 player I would like to see level gating a thing of the past, maybe more of a character level system like in valmod where you can chose classes would be nicer at least work towards your play style.

 
Problem is, since ALL skills and perks are now artificially gated, the issue is even more obvious in a17 than in a16.

 
Problem is, since ALL skills and perks are now artificially gated, the issue is even more obvious in a17 than in a16.
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This is what I keep saying. There is also an actual progression rate difference (which is one of the best things in A17 imo), but if the gating was more seamless it would have gotten a much better reception.

 
I didnt think id like the gating but its ok. Slowing things down is ok. I remember getting late game in the past and missing the threat early game has. Though i do agree you feel a little too gimped early on. I feel like they did this to make the perks feel better later on.

Atm we start at lets say %40 gimp and you end at %60 superhuman, i think it needs tweaking so early is %20 or %30 gimp and end on %70/%80 super. If that makes any sense O.o

 
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