PC Lets help TFP improve PvP

Some interesting ideas Sinz, going to quote one particular bit that I disagree strongly with though:
''I think this could have potential because it would encourage prolonged PVP. So often I've seen people get raided and flat out quit. PVP is player vs player, it's about the battle, not the griefing and not destroying competition. With a feature like this players can get back on their feet faster after being raided and the action can begin again sooner without having to start from scratch. Players would be more likely to make adjustments to their build based on each defeat and learn how to combat player raids faster with a feature like this.''

People play pvp for a variety of reasons, i know pve players who play pvp just for the added threat even though they dont go looking for pvp and actively avoid it, there are loads of reasons for people to play pvp but one big one is definately to raid and steal someone elses stuff. I get that you dont like that aspect and you're correct that some people cant take it but there are servers out there with settings to suit them (invul claims is the main one). Its good to see the different opinions but lets not fall into the trap of 'this is what everyone thinks because i think it' which I am guilty of myself sometimes.

Base raiding, griefing and even in some rare cases making people quit are all parts of the pvp game, I know teams that have a grudge with another team and have killed and raided them specifically to get them off the server, I also know plenty of cases where multiple people have teamed up to kill and raid a team of griefers to remove THEM from the server in revenge! karma at work :)

Different reasons for different people is all I am saying.
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Raiding is a fundamental part of PVP in open world survival base building games. To put artificial systems in to gate it just takes out the fun. You just got to suck it up and rebuild. :-)

 
Locking Picking
Very rare item that spawns in the world and can be used to break the lock on a single door.
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fwiw it doesn't make any sense that you'd both successfully pick the lock AND break your pick. If your pick breaks, you're not going to pick the lock. So only in the event of an unsuccessful pick attempt would you ever "consume" a pick.

 
fwiw it doesn't make any sense that you'd both successfully pick the lock AND break your pick. If your pick breaks, you're not going to pick the lock. So only in the event of an unsuccessful pick attempt would you ever "consume" a
It’s a game and there has to be balance. There’s far more unbelievable things in the game already like placing wood frames and jumping to place more until you’re as high as a sky scraper lol.
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Dead is Dead (lose your claim, map, all stats, chest/door access) would be an improvement too...

...it would make griefers hesitate before random murder, could foster teamwork to bring down a tyrant, and would regularly level the playing field.

 
It’s a game and there has to be balance. There’s far more unbelievable things in the game already like placing wood frames and jumping to place more until you’re as high as a sky scraper lol.
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I'd much rather have a simple compromise, twice as many picks in the world but a 50% chance they break and you don't pick the lock.

 
Okay, so after reading the few pages on this thread i have come to the conclusion that most everyone is over complicating this.

THB everyone knows that PVP needs some love, however most of the things i've seen mentioned wouldn't really help and not mess with PVE or the rest of the game at all. so. i've had a standpoint about this. fixing things that make the game work better and inadvertently fix pvp in the process.

sound does need to be fixed. as in. lessened and made more realistic. you shouldn't be able to hear forges 100 feet in the ground. and no you should not be able to hear a gun from across the map. and of course in a dense forest you can't really tell which direction its coming from etc.

and noises should be "dampened" the more physical objects are between you and the thing making noise. people who suggest it should be increased are lazy gamers who want the easiest way to find people. that is not the way it should be played.

as for the rest bug fixes like the see through terrain obv need to be fixed. the other players on fire bug needs to be fixed (i took out a group of 5 people like 8 times each because they were all on fire 3/4 of the time and easy to spot.

claim block would help both PVP and PVE. now i know the wish list was to just be able to delete something but i think we should take a different route. the claim block should give a damage bonus to tools ON player made blocks as in as long as you are within your claim your tools will do massive amount of damage to player made blocks. this would not affect base raiding as only YOUR claim only gives YOU (and your friends) the bonus. that way we don't have to make it too specific. if you can build in that claim you get the bonus. so if your an enemy you don't.

we have given shot placement to zombies. shooting them in the chest does less damage then shooting their limbs off, and a headshot does ALOT more damage. this should be added to players as well. a chest shot from a weapon if you have armor prob won't kill you and body armor and head armor should be separate values. so a head shot is almost an instant kill but also hard to do. so that would make PVP combat a little more interesting. also this way weapons don't have to be "balanced" their values will remain the same but the damage received by players could be changed depending on the changes to armor and not being a head shot etc.

tbh not much else needs to be changed or added to make PVP better or awesome. the biggest problems in pvp for me was the exploits (seeing through terrain) and bugs that just didn't help. everything else about the game was great because honestly you may not want to call it a PVP game Madmole but there's really nothing about the game holding it back or really deterring PVP from being done pvp in the game was pretty good as is except for a few things. i mean you could think about people or groups joining factions as NPC's get into the game and as pvp ensues and you kill players or npc's belonging to factions the NPC factions will place bounties on players but thats the only addition i can think of.

and for the love of god will you people stop bringing up an "end game" to pvp or a goal. i mean seriously this is an apocalypse ffs no ones keeping score and the apocalypse doesn't end because you "killed the most people" its about how long YOU CAN SURVIVE. and that btw is the crap MM is talking about PVP should be just that PVP not PVP until someone reaches a goal. you just keep going until everyone gets bored and you either move on to another server or get the admin to wipe. and i can tell you right now THAT end game to pvp will never happen.

so there you have it simple yet elegant, not too many changes and its wayyyyy more doable then what you folks were suggesting.

and before anyone gets snarky i currently have 1500+ hours put into this game second only to EVE online with 2k+ hours (which i stopped playing because as it may not be dead its not going anywhere either.) and these suggestions are something me and my group have thought of putting into account what the countless numbers of players who have played on our servers when we had one. and just these few things i've mentioned in this post alone would make PVP awesome. so lets stay away from what other games have and stick to what THIS game actually NEEDS.

 
continued.....

anyways there are alot of things that would make the game better, but since they aren't considered PVP specific i did not mention them. however i will state the only thing i am rooting for is animal taming, being able to build a ranch and own cats and dogs for your base.

so ya @madmole these suggestions alone would make pvp better anything else would just be icing on the cake

that is all.

 
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I agree that stepping carelessly on a landmine should probably result in an instant death, but the cheaper landmines might be so poorly put together that they wouldn't actually kill a person so I'll give the developers that.
Though I don't think getting one-shot while looting is necessarily an indication of carelessness. Like Poojam said, players have become increasingly complacent because the sound radii was nerfed so hard. Given that, not many people pay attention to their surroundings anymore. Regardless, I play PUBG so I'm going to compare some simple numbers to that. In PUBG, you can take 2-3 shots even without armor. As you get better and better armor, sometimes you take take 4, 5, or even more shots if the shooter's caliber is low. It gives you enough time to react, get cover, and launch a counter-attack. Maybe you still lose but at least you get a chance to fight back. The only exception is in close-quarters battles where you might be out of luck due to the development speed of the encounter. The maximum punishment for dying in PUBG is just 30 minutes of looting and killing.

The maximum punishment for losing a fight in 7 Days is potentially dozens of hours of work. Literally a 10-20x harsher punishment (if not more), so relatively speaking, I would say at the bare minimum it should take at least as many shots to kill a player in 7 Days as it does in PUBG, if not twice as many. In PUBG a level 3 helmet can take a shot from almost every sniper rifle, and level 3 armor can withstand 3-4 bullets from the strongest assault rifles or a single shotgun slug at point blank range. You should be able to take at least that many shots if you have perfect armor in 7 Days. Basically we need a better balance between the time it takes to ambush someone, for them to react, the fight to take place and the fight to end, and how much you stand to lose by losing the fight. So either you lose less (for example, drop toolbelt but not inventory), or the fights take longer. I prefer a total loss of all items on death, so my vote is to increase the average length of a PvP battle by reducing gun damage significantly.
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Your analogy is pretty thorough, but seems to be going off the assumption that battle time should be a function of the stakes of wining/losing. Can you explain why that is?

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You also seem to be going off the assumption that PUBG is a good game - TABG FTW :smile-new:

 
Some things I suggested for PVP a while back in the suggestions forum...
Explosive charges

What about if we had explosive charges that we place and detonate? They could deal huge amounts of block damage to player made blocks. They could be craftable and locked behind perks and cost a lot of resources to build. Maybe 10-30 minutes in the work bench. Maybe some of the items needed are rare and loot only. We could have tiered charges - wood, metal and concrete / steel charges.
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This is already a thing in the game, and actually quite cheap. If you place wood frames or hay bales around all but one side of a piece of tnt, you can create shaped blasts that allow you to break open safes or vault doors much faster than an auger. I always bring a few pieces along with me when looting in case I see a gun safe. It shouldn't be that hard to mod the game so that explosions ignore LCBs.

 
This is already a thing in the game, and actually quite cheap. If you place wood frames or hay bales around all but one side of a piece of tnt, you can create shaped blasts that allow you to break open safes or vault doors much faster than an auger. I always bring a few pieces along with me when looting in case I see a gun safe. It shouldn't be that hard to mod the game so that explosions ignore LCBs.
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I may be missing sarcasm here although my radar is normally good. How exactly would you place blocks on claimed land..?

 
Some interesting ideas Sinz, going to quote one particular bit that I disagree strongly with though:
''I think this could have potential because it would encourage prolonged PVP. So often I've seen people get raided and flat out quit. PVP is player vs player, it's about the battle, not the griefing and not destroying competition. With a feature like this players can get back on their feet faster after being raided and the action can begin again sooner without having to start from scratch. Players would be more likely to make adjustments to their build based on each defeat and learn how to combat player raids faster with a feature like this.''

People play pvp for a variety of reasons, i know pve players who play pvp just for the added threat even though they dont go looking for pvp and actively avoid it, there are loads of reasons for people to play pvp but one big one is definately to raid and steal someone elses stuff. I get that you dont like that aspect and you're correct that some people cant take it but there are servers out there with settings to suit them (invul claims is the main one). Its good to see the different opinions but lets not fall into the trap of 'this is what everyone thinks because i think it' which I am guilty of myself sometimes.

Base raiding, griefing and even in some rare cases making people quit are all parts of the pvp game, I know teams that have a grudge with another team and have killed and raided them specifically to get them off the server, I also know plenty of cases where multiple people have teamed up to kill and raid a team of griefers to remove THEM from the server in revenge! karma at work :)

Different reasons for different people is all I am saying.
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I think you kinda got the wrong idea about what I was meaning.

When I refer to base greifing I mean completely destroying the entire base.

I love raiding and having people attempt to raid my base too, but I hate logging in to find no base at all.

But the idea that you quoted was my most ambitious and crazy idea and I haven't thought out all the implications of it. One thing is for sure though, as I said, if that idea was to be added, it would defiantly need game settings so people could adjust or disable it to suit there preferences.

 
i agree with you sy tarn the one thing old school pvpers were whining about was they couldnt hear a guy in his base or jumping from 5KM away anymore and you could maybe hear a sniper rifle from 2KM away but thats pushing the limits

 
In regards to PvP servers needing to be wiped often to level the playing field because the gap in player progression stops new player traffic and the gap in player progression isn't well suited to PvP:

Another thing that people are going to have different opinions to. But I still want to discuss a solution, I don't want to dispute weather or not it should be in the game because, once again, this can be a game setting that people can adjust to suit their preferences.

I do think the gap between a new player and a level 200 player with a 100 IG day base is an issue with PvP and I think it would be hard to balance without negatively effecting PvE.

I like the progression and I like the premise of having to work my way up to the level of high level players to compete or being the high level player.

But in the situation where high level players actively hunt and try to force rage quit on low level players, I think there needs to be something to balance out fairness just a little, obviously high level players should still have an advantage.

Earlier in the thread someone suggested one shot kills as a solution to this, that may be an option and I think it should be made available in game settings as I mentioned before in my other comment but it's not how I would want to play PvP in 7DTD so I think there should be more solutions.

One step towards giving newbs a chance against tyrants could be scaling XP earned from player kills. The higher level the player is, the more XP they are worth. And bonus scaling XP for how many days that player has survived.

If a level 20 kills a level 200 that hasn't died in 200 days, they deserve a good payout, they've earned it.

And extra XP for killing players with bounties and bad reputation.

I'm sure that some people out there would rather the level progression turned off completely for PvP but I'm against that idea.

A crazy idea, not one I'd use but maybe someone might like it, a configurable game setting that increases the level of a first time joining player based on the in game day count. This idea sounds like a balancing nightmare, I don't know if it would play well or not, I think it would be best to play test it.

 
Okay, so after reading the few pages on this thread i have come to the conclusion that most everyone is over complicating this.
THB everyone knows that PVP needs some love, however most of the things i've seen mentioned wouldn't really help and not mess with PVE or the rest of the game at all. so. i've had a standpoint about this. fixing things that make the game work better and inadvertently fix pvp in the process.
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I agree with your standpoint Sy Tarn and I agree with the following part of your comment that I haven't quoted.

But I don't think most of the things mentioned here would negatively impact PvE.

There are defiantly some suggestions here that would negatively effect PvE, and I'm against that, but I think there are few of them and that they can safely be ignored because they're not popular with everyone else.

Where as the ideas you expanded on in the rest of your comment have been reposed here multiple times, and I think that's a good thing, kinda like a voting system.

I do agree that some people are over complicating their suggestions a bit.

I think we just need to put our ideas forward as simply as possible without going into too much detail about exact values and details.

I trust TFP with the balancing of any ideas from here that they choose to use. Once it's in the game I think we can then talk about specific details and values and suggest re-balancing where it's needed.

I think for now we just need to express what ideas everyone agrees on without over complicating how the idea is implemented.

I think that's going to be most useful and constructive to TFP.

 
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I like the idea of higher level players being worth more xp... That would have some good repercussions imo...

They need a benefit, too... Maybe a hardening or expansion of their claim? I dunno, I'm torn because I dislike lcb's but also see the desire for them.

 
I may be missing sarcasm here although my radar is normally good. How exactly would you place blocks on claimed land..?
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Yeah, you can't do that. I was pointing out that explosive charges exist, not that it's possible to use them right on claimed land. I can see how that would be confusing since we are talking about PvP.

 
I think it needs a balanced & special game mode with objectives, . Right now its a haphazard mess & whoever has more hours on a server is king. Games need to be short and balanced.

 
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I think it needs a balanced & special game mode with objectives, . Right now its a haphazard mess & whoever having more hours on a server is king. Games need to be short and balanced.
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Sounds like a battle royale gamemode.

 
In regards to PvP servers needing to be wiped often to level the playing field because the gap in player progression stops new player traffic and the gap in player progression isn't well suited to PvP:
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agreed my only worry would be the payout would be too high for a low level player essentially making it the only way to speed level at low levels. not saying a bad idea but not something thats too OP

 
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