PC Lets help TFP improve PvP

bloom_meister

bloom_meister

Banned
So over in the A17 thread MM has responded that whilst not a priority right now, he would like to make substantial positive changes changes to make, in his own words, 'pvp awesome'. Now things like netcode is something that we cant influence and thats down to TFP to fix, and they have it on their list, but how about the PVP community generate some realistic and sensible suggestions here for improving pvp that TFP can perhaps use as a starting point for some changes.

When making your suggestions I would ask, and you are free to ignore, that you suggest changes that do not impact the pve experience in a negative way, for myself i dont want to (negatively) change the pve game by making changes to pvp

I will start off with one thing that drives my friend nuts, sound travel distance. In earlier alphas you could hear an auger from 6-7k away and a forge from maybe 2-3k, you could even hear someone opening a drawer from a good half k away and that was rightly nerfed as it was unrealistic but as my friend points out to me, its not unrealistic to want to hear a gunshot from a couple kilometres away. So my first suggestion is to change the sound travel distance for certain actions and items. In keeping with my own request i dont beleive this impacts the pve experience.

Looking forward to hearing lots of good suggestions from the pvp community and please, if you dont like pvp or you dont like pve players, keep that stuff out of the thread, just looking for constructive feedback the devs can consider.

 
The moderator team will remove any comments that are off-topic or flaming against PvP here and give the author an infraction. This thread is for constructive suggestions and not for debating whether 7 Days to Die is meant for PvP.

Please report any argumentative posts and refrain from responding to them so cleanup is easy.

 
There is a decent thread set up already with a lot of my biggest desires as a PvP player:

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?59401-quot-The-PvP-Update-quot

That said, here are my main concerns:

-Sound radii need to be increased to encourage players to hunt each other through sound. You used to have to make decisions on what sounds you were going to risk making at any given time. You had to choose if it was worth it to run your forge lest someone hear it and attack your base. Now you can basically do anything you want and never have to worry about anyone hearing you. This is a big detriment to PvP.

-We need additional functionality for land claim blocks, so server owners can decide on things like "no offline raiding, at all," and to consider certain cases like combat logging

-Smaller maps to encourage more conflict

-Reduce weapon damage significantly to prevent cheesy one-shot kills. The AK-47 and rocket launcher are both extremely overpowered weapons in PvP, though the rocket launcher is too fun to give up. Not sure why TFP didn't stop at sniper/smg. Those weapons were great endgame weapons. Strong but not absurdly so.

-Add hacking/cheating prevention measures. I've played with SO many people who can pinpoint your location (via hacks), pinpoint your bedroll or land claims (via hacks), open any passworded door without the code, literally fly and teleport around while rapidly setting off an infinite amount of dynamite in their wake, duping, building floating bases, etc.

-Add some sort of "end goal" that allows a player to win and causes a wipe/reset (and takes 2-4 weeks to attain) or give server admins an easy way to trigger a wipe/restart after a certain amount of days. PvP becomes stale and imbalanced the longer it goes on. And the longer it goes, the less new players you're going to bring in until eventually the server dies completely. Most people want to join a game in the first 100 days. Anything later and you're at too severe of a disadvantage. There needs to be some way to handle this, as it's a problem that specifically unique to PvP and not particularly present in coop.

 
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Serverowner option

PVP Kill (as first blood/started fight)= Set player to Permadeath

(For PvE > PVP server

In real the reason why bandits dont come back is that they dont respawn)

-----------------------------------------------------------

Serverowner option to define a Backpack and Player level for new player and Permadeath restarts

Option for a "Get XP" multiplyer

(To allow new player to reach the same level fast)

And all of this seeable in the Server screen.

------------------------------------------

Reasoning

PVP at eye level is the only real PVP, everything else is nearly allways griefing. My suggestions above are only fast suggestions i had this moment in my brain. But this changes and some other could be bound together in a "PVP on eye level" ruleset that can have one triggerbox in the serverlist

 
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Hey, interesting thread :) I know that this stuff is never going to happen anytime soon. But I HOPE that someday after gold release it will be added.

So I would change:

  • increase sound distance
  • increase view distance (i mean the blocks loaded around a player, not the distant terrain...)
  • set default gamma to 100%, so people cannot cheat and see at night
  • Fix dupes
  • Fix 'see through map' bug
  • Give penalties with traders to players who kill other players



So:

  • the sound distance is just a value to be changed (seriously, this is just balance to be done, can you increase sound distance even for pve pls? this could be done right now)
  • the view distance is just a value to be changed (seriously, why is the default just 12? Just increase the value pls.. this would benefit pvers as well)

 
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Sound distance is perfect in games like Fortnite and PUBG.

In Holland we say; "Beter goed gejat dan slecht verzonnen" :fat:

 
hello way to improve PVP in 7 days to die

1-increase the volume of the guns so you can hear someone shooting from long distance so you can get more action

2- fix the duping and cheating

3- fix the bug that you can see though maps by the option called field of view you if max it and make 2 block hight tunnel you can find underground bases

4- LCBs must be something that hard to make

5- make the maps smaller ... i heard that random gen now can only be 8x8 km map it s good but still big that why we need minibikes to be smoth and bug free specially in huge population servers

6- snipers and aks are OP compared to shotguns and SMGs

7- view distance update which is very very importante that you can see huge towers in distance is something very needed i hate it when i run then i skybox tower appeared in 100 m range and that really sucks please make A18 supported to that

8-fix the bug for invisible players may be the new mo cap of A17 is fixing it

9-fix the mining helmet that is on while it appear to you that it s off ive killed so many people using that

10-get XP killing players

thank you

 
hello way to improve PVP in 7 days to die 1-increase the volume of the guns so you can hear someone shooting from long distance so you can get more action

2- fix the duping and cheating

3- fix the bug that you can see though maps by the option called field of view you if max it and make 2 block hight tunnel you can find underground bases

4- LCBs must be something that hard to make

5- make the maps smaller ... i heard that random gen now can only be 8x8 km map it s good but still big that why we need minibikes to be smoth and bug free specially in huge population servers

6- snipers and aks are OP compared to shotguns and SMGs

7- view distance update which is very very importante that you can see huge towers in distance is something very needed i hate it when i run then i skybox tower appeared in 100 m range and that really sucks please make A18 supported to that

8-fix the bug for invisible players may be the new mo cap of A17 is fixing it

9-fix the mining helmet that is on while it appear to you that it s off ive killed so many people using that

10-get XP killing players

thank you
Click to expand...
The problem i see is simple that smaller maps and long range Visibility and sounds will make combined server useless.

If you cant play the PVE part without telling everyone where you are there is no PVP on eyesight possible.

Other players will allways have the advantage over PVE player.

They know where you are and have the initiative.

And at least i, cant imagine to play this game long therm without PVE Content

 
The problem i see is simple that smaller maps and long range Visibility and sounds will make combined server useless.If you cant play the PVE part without telling everyone where you are there is no PVP on eyesight possible.

Other players will allways have the advantage over PVE player.

They know where you are and have the initiative.

And at least i, cant imagine to play this game long therm without PVE Content
Click to expand...
7x7 is still huge if you think about it and just seeing bases from long distance make sense just like POIs

 
Traders

Unless I get very lucky early game the trader is 90% of the time my source for my first AK47 or Sniper (or any weapon). Personally I find that having a good weapon early is a vital component of pvp and therefore would request that if a server is setup as PVP then both weapons and ammo are removed from the trader as this would increase the importance of loot boxes containing them and heighten the excitement of finding weapons by scavenging. It would also encourage more exploration and discourage the 'turtling' of some players who set up store next to a trader knowing they will get all the ammo and weapons they need from them.

I dont know the probability of finding snipers, AK and rocket launchers in loot boxes but I would potentially lower those chances to make them half as rare as they are today (including safes).

As other people have pointed out, in A16 it seems everyone has an AK or sniper in a couple of days and this is far removed from the old days when you had to find parts, then make molds (IIRC the sniper had 5 molds) so that back then when you came across someone with a sniper it was a big deal.

Traders

Add in a penalty to prices for traders for players who kill other players but offset this with quests and bounties so that if a trader asks you to kill player X who has a bad reputation (with the trader) then your own reputation is wiped clean. Make this system track each player so that you may have some traders who hate you and others who love you and represent this with the secrete stash selection of loot available in a similar way to some RPP MMO's whereby a trader who you get to max faction will offer you more or better items

XP

Add in a significant XP gain for killing a player BUT have it drop off dramatically for killing the same player within a set period (say 24 real hours) to stop abuse

Traps

Add in special blocks (like many mods have done) where certain blocks are given special properties such as 'collapse' (only enough SI to support themselves) or 'explode' on contact

Perks

Add in some perks that require player kills as pre requisites such as damage modifiers, armour modifiers, run speed modifiers etc. Make these modifiers or perks small so they dont make a big difference but still gain you something, also make them have a high costs such as 5 kills for a perk to add 5% runspeed, 20 kills for a 5% damage modifier with rilfes. On a normal pvp server very few people, even on a 5k day server, have over 10 kills and if you add in the 'does not count if you kill same player in x period of time restriction to stop abuse and 'farming'

Health & Stamina

Expand on the current system so that if someone desires they can increase their HP/Stam further

Increase the penalty (if its still there for A17) for death from 10 wellness to 20 to discourage farming of friends)

Add a 'stayed alive bonus' so that the longer you go without death the faster your health and stamina regen, this is a naturally balancing effect as sure, you could sit in your hold in the ground for 500 in game days building the bonus but youre not using that bonus for anything as youre not fighting therefore it doesnt matter and the first time you die, its gone.

Weapon damage

Scale it back to reduce the 1 shot kills, it should still be possible to kill someone with 1 shot to the head from a rifle or sniper but lets make it so that most of the time, unless radically outclassed, you at least have a chance to flee or respond.

Nerf (again) or remove exploding crossbow damage radius of effect and damage, its simply an extremely cheap rocket launcher at the moment

Bases

Add a server PM message for players when one of their protected blocks is damaged by another player. Make this a one message per 10 minutes, for example, to stop the server having to spam messages. This will let someone know they are potentially being raided and give them interesting choices to make if far from home

Add in different types of claim blocks with different effects OR allow the player to nominate a block as a claim block by using a 1 time component they have to craft, this will stop other players 'seeing' your claims although they could still work out mathematically where it is to remove it. Think of this as 'upgrading' a block to be a claim and yet the block still retains all its other properties

Add in powered windows/hatches that can raise and lower and make these paintable so that your courtyard may for example contain 4 hidden hatches that when activated, either manually or by a motion sensor, then lower and allow your turrets to fire catching the raiders unawares

Add in powered doors and sensor blocks or blocks that can be upgrade to be a senor block that recognise you and friends and automatically open doors for you

Loot on death

Add a perk(s) that allow you to keep one or more item on death, not a realism option but a gameplay one where you could perhaps save your favorite weapon being taken when you die, make it level locked and expensive as hell. I think the functionality for this is already there as when we have backpack drop, as an example, your belt items dont show up to loot, hope that makes sense.

Items

Add in new tiers of items such as epic and legendary, make them ultra rare, perhaps off boss mobs, and make them expensive to repair, possibly even requiring additional perks. Make them significantly better at what they do, perhaps 15% epic and 30% legendary but balance it so that if you find one its a major wow moment. For clothing add in unique graphic visualisations

Thats it for now.

 
I'd say I agree with everything except EXP from players. I don't need exp if I'm getting their entire backpack worth of stuff. There's already an inherent reward to killing someone, I don't need anything extra.

 
Hey... so here is my two cents about it. I've been buggering TFPs for what feels like 8 alphas now to fix PvP...

here are some points, ranked by personal importance, to fix pvp:

1. get rid of offlineraids.

look... raiding is fun and all. but playing 200 hours to come back to see your stuff gone without any chance of retalliation is just not fun.

The ONLY safe way to store your stuff is for your base never to be found. I've had a huge mountain (90block tunnel with multiple turrets and two stories all with turrets) and the next day EVERYTHING was gone. They burried through reinforced steel and 80 stone blocks like it was nothing. There is virtually no safe way to build your base that doesn't look absolutly horrendous (big pit, multiple layers of steeldoors, multiple rooms inside and so on) and its simply not fun.

Solution: MaxOfflineBlockHp=infinite. Simple as is. Make this setting standart and 95% of pve players will go and play pvp (look at ark. 90% of players play pve... only because offlineraids exist) maybe 5-10min time after logging off for raiders to finish, but not to start just as he goes offline.

2. sound range

has been described already, just a short one:

falling trees, chainsaw/auger, guns and maybe stations (workbench,chemestrystation...) should have a diametre of 500m (250m radius).

This will make it more atmospheric AND give you counterplay.

3. weaponbalance

reduce damage to players with armor. Even full military armor will not save you from beeing killed in just a few shots. Yes realistic, but not fun at all. While it is kinda hard to aim, once you got the hang of it, it is only annoying for the unsuspecting victim.

0% pierce armor -> 50% (hs 200%)hp

50% armor -> 25% (hs 100%)

90% armor -> 5% (hs 20%)

These values can be tweaked, but having full iron armor (all purple) and beeing twoshot by a crossbow (first one gave me bleed damage) is just not at all fun. Luckily I was always far enough from the center (because of point 1) that I was generally the sniper.

4. smaller maps

ONLY if offline baseraids are impossible. Me always going towards the edge of the map until i was prepared for pvp (because everything closer then 3km to the center WILL get raided after 2-3 weeks even if underground) Made me miss out on a lot of pvp fun.

Make the map smaller for players to not be able to avoid pvp. But since smaller maps are optional now, this point is kinda mute. Maybe make it 4x4 as standart for pvp.

Those are the biggest factors. Ranked by importance.

Again: REMOVE OFFLINERAIDS. A large majority of players dislike coming back online only to find everything they ever did to be gone not very fun so they go play pve instead.

 
Hey... so here is my two cents about it. I've been buggering TFPs for what feels like 8 alphas now to fix PvP...here are some points, ranked by personal importance, to fix pvp:

1. get rid of offlineraids.

look... raiding is fun and all. but playing 200 hours to come back to see your stuff gone without any chance of retalliation is just not fun.

The ONLY safe way to store your stuff is for your base never to be found. I've had a huge mountain (90block tunnel with multiple turrets and two stories all with turrets) and the next day EVERYTHING was gone. They burried through reinforced steel and 80 stone blocks like it was nothing. There is virtually no safe way to build your base that doesn't look absolutly horrendous (big pit, multiple layers of steeldoors, multiple rooms inside and so on) and its simply not fun.

Solution: MaxOfflineBlockHp=infinite. Simple as is. Make this setting standart and 95% of pve players will go and play pvp (look at ark. 90% of players play pve... only because offlineraids exist) maybe 5-10min time after logging off for raiders to finish, but not to start just as he goes offline.

2. sound range

has been described already, just a short one:

falling trees, chainsaw/auger, guns and maybe stations (workbench,chemestrystation...) should have a diametre of 500m (250m radius).

This will make it more atmospheric AND give you counterplay.

3. weaponbalance

reduce damage to players with armor. Even full military armor will not save you from beeing killed in just a few shots. Yes realistic, but not fun at all. While it is kinda hard to aim, once you got the hang of it, it is only annoying for the unsuspecting victim.

0% pierce armor -> 50% (hs 200%)hp

50% armor -> 25% (hs 100%)

90% armor -> 5% (hs 20%)

These values can be tweaked, but having full iron armor (all purple) and beeing twoshot by a crossbow (first one gave me bleed damage) is just not at all fun. Luckily I was always far enough from the center (because of point 1) that I was generally the sniper.

4. smaller maps

ONLY if offline baseraids are impossible. Me always going towards the edge of the map until i was prepared for pvp (because everything closer then 3km to the center WILL get raided after 2-3 weeks even if underground) Made me miss out on a lot of pvp fun.

Make the map smaller for players to not be able to avoid pvp. But since smaller maps are optional now, this point is kinda mute. Maybe make it 4x4 as standart for pvp.

Those are the biggest factors. Ranked by importance.

Again: REMOVE OFFLINERAIDS. A large majority of players dislike coming back online only to find everything they ever did to be gone not very fun so they go play pve instead.
Click to expand...
Hi Viktor and thanks for your feedback.

If I may, your feedback contains 2 items that are already coded into the game, let me deal with offline raiding first.

On the server settings the server admin can already select from a wide range of protection settings for both online and offline protection, one of these is for infinite or invulnerable protection so you see its already there.

Now just as you and i and everyone else has their own opinion on the settings we like (for example I prefer drop all on death and 16 online 32 offline claims) hopefully you would agree that with the wide range of servers out there that the current system allows you to find a server with settings you like and this is far preferable to forcing everyone into an arbitrary 'one size fits all' solution.

Short version = your wish has already been granted, join or start a server with the settings you prefer

With regard to world size, similar response really, we can already have any world size we want and it seems that with A17 this just got better because for the people who prefer bigger worlds they have got rid of the issue with items shaking the further you go out from the centre. Again, find a server that has a world size you like or you can start one but hopefully once again you would agree that rather than force everyone to use a setting 'you like', that its better to let you and others have the option to have a size that fits them.

Short version = your wish has already been granted

Your points 2 and 3, agreed in principle, would obviously require tuning.

 
I've had good luck getting sniper loot by looting the military camps, you know, the ones with all the mines around them.... That's usually where I find my first sniper rifle in whole, not just pieces. Strangely enough I tend to get Night Vision goggles out of tree stumps.

 
There are always so many NVG in tree stumps it's ridiculous lmao

Speaking of which, fixing the mining helmet bug is also a huge issue I forgot about because I just started using NVG exclusively instead.

Anyway if it was up to me I'd remove the AK from the game completely, and make snipers extraordinarily hard to come by (for example, have it be a rare drop off a very high-level boss)

 
Hi Viktor and thanks for your feedback.
If I may, your feedback contains 2 items that are already coded into the game, let me deal with offline raiding first.

On the server settings the server admin can already select from a wide range of protection settings for both online and offline protection, one of these is for infinite or invulnerable protection so you see its already there.

Now just as you and i and everyone else has their own opinion on the settings we like (for example I prefer drop all on death and 16 online 32 offline claims) hopefully you would agree that with the wide range of servers out there that the current system allows you to find a server with settings you like and this is far preferable to forcing everyone into an arbitrary 'one size fits all' solution.

Short version = your wish has already been granted, join or start a server with the settings you prefer
Click to expand...
I disagree.

Since it is not the standart option, setting it to unlimited is a) something most serverowners dont do because they dont want to mess with options for maximum appeal

and b) something that puts it into the "modded" category.

If ANYTHING we need a differnt servermanager. Where changing options like daylength, claimblockmultiplier and lootrespawn do not count as "modded" and where you can specifically search for options that fit your playstyle without clicking every single server and looking at its stats.

I for example like (online) 120min days and a lot of zombies, infinite offline health and less loot.

But every option that is changed moves the server into the "modded" section which is ignored by most PvP players (nearly all 50+ PvP servers are in the "unmodded section")

So no. My wish has not been granted. My wish is an option already. But as it becomes "modded" and therefor no serverowner actually selects it, its effectivly null and void.

The problem I see is you like offlineraids. Which is fine. But why should your playstyle be "favoured" and listed as "unmodded" and mine not?

While I personally feel a large majority actually avoids PvP because of offline raids (most players ive met in PvE and PvPvE servers told me exactly that) I don'T want to take that away from you... so the only way would be to not have a "modded" section and be able to search for servers with your preferences and NOT having to click through 100 servers manually.

I still think offlineraids are the devil and keep a lot of players away from pvp

 
hello way to improve PVP in 7 days to die 1-increase the volume of the guns so you can hear someone shooting from long distance so you can get more action

2- fix the duping and cheating

3- fix the bug that you can see though maps by the option called field of view you if max it and make 2 block hight tunnel you can find underground bases

4- LCBs must be something that hard to make

5- make the maps smaller ... i heard that random gen now can only be 8x8 km map it s good but still big that why we need minibikes to be smoth and bug free specially in huge population servers

6- snipers and aks are OP compared to shotguns and SMGs

7- view distance update which is very very importante that you can see huge towers in distance is something very needed i hate it when i run then i skybox tower appeared in 100 m range and that really sucks please make A18 supported to that

8-fix the bug for invisible players may be the new mo cap of A17 is fixing it

9-fix the mining helmet that is on while it appear to you that it s off ive killed so many people using that

10-get XP killing players

thank you
Click to expand...
This, exept .5 ... the map need to be bigger imo. Also make underground bases more viable (i have some ideas how but i won't mention them now) Currently the towers are far more superior that bunker...

Second, Add option for LCBs - To be indestructible, to preven base stealing (depends on server rules)

Third - option for PVP damage modifier - To adjust damage done by player to player with firearms (something like 25%, 50%,75%) So accordingly firearms will do 25%, 50%, 75% less damage. This will be very useful for servers on easy setting and for PVP beginners

Also it will be nice if there is some neutral perimeter arround the trader,cuz in most of the servers its a death-match area...

Thanks for spare time :)

 
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