Frostblunt
New member
yeah exactly this... I've been playing recently on a new game and it happened in every building I visited... do I really need to make a video of it to prove it?
PC Let's DISCUSS old zombies vs new zombies!
- Thread starter Frostblunt
- Start date
Frostblunt
New member
I'm acutally doing this. It's also happen to be a multiplayer zombie game for oculus rift that I develop solo. I will post video of the gameplay tommorow if you want. I like my zombies much more lol.
Better yet, don't make zombies continually spawn in once you enter a POI and have them all pre-loaded... it makes no sense to know you cleared a room only to have more spawn in by the time you come back to an old room. There are way too many zombies in many POI's anyway as it is.
The good and the bad
Gotta call BS on that MadMole. I returned to this game with much skepticism but I've been enjoying A17 way more than expected, I'm hooked again in fact. But the zombie spawning is the worst part of the update right now. Indoors, when you attack a sleeper, or make too much noise, zombies spawn in around you in rooms you've just cleared. Even in spots you were just looking at seconds before. Immersion breaking and frustrating, not fun. This should never happen. Clearing rooms and knowing behind you is safe if fundamental to almost all survival game experiences, and this breaks it.
To touch on a few other points, I think players need to remember that Zombies have always been depicted differently...some run..some talk...some are smart...some infect others don't....some eat you others just kill you...so the devs are fine with having their own version of what a Zombie is. Who says a headshot should kill these zombies? The Flood for example, had no "head". And for those that don't play PVP, the crafting/tower defense mechanics are central to the survival experience, so zombies need to be able to break through walls otherwise it's all pointless. However I don't think it makes sense for them to be able to dig through rock/concrete, iron..at least not the normal types. Even on the blood moon. Should definitely be some special types for this.
That said, Zombies definitely shouldn't recognize traps and avoid them and Zeds Dodging your aiming is actually a silly concept and looks comical on screen. These things actually interfere with the purpose of other core systems, and therefore really break immersion and make your base defenses feel somewhat arbitrary. I'm back to hiding in a high tower for the Blood moon because that's the only way to survive again. Would be nice for Devs to figure this out better. If you can build with high end materials that endure attacks really well and trap up your obvious paths inward, it opens up base design. I like that they don't always focus on your doors anymore, cause that never made sense, but they shouldn't tear through every material with ease.
MadMole, I wonder if you guys have a solid backstory for the Zeds and the world? Doing so keeps the feature updates tied to an overall set of rules. For example, If you decided early on that the Zombies are mutants with super strength and intelligence, then you design the game around that IDEA so changes to core mechanics don't break well understood rules of other parts of the game. I know it's Alpha, but it's been in Alpha for a long time, so I think most of us have a sense of what the world IS. So when you abruptly change things that seem to violate the "rules" of the world, that's when you get the most flak.
I'd also just like to know the backstory for lore sake.
I've been with her game since it's initial phase, but rarely post. Gotta give my thoughts on this one though.
Gotta call BS on that MadMole. I returned to this game with much skepticism but I've been enjoying A17 way more than expected, I'm hooked again in fact. But the zombie spawning is the worst part of the update right now. Indoors, when you attack a sleeper, or make too much noise, zombies spawn in around you in rooms you've just cleared. Even in spots you were just looking at seconds before. Immersion breaking and frustrating, not fun. This should never happen. Clearing rooms and knowing behind you is safe if fundamental to almost all survival game experiences, and this breaks it.
To touch on a few other points, I think players need to remember that Zombies have always been depicted differently...some run..some talk...some are smart...some infect others don't....some eat you others just kill you...so the devs are fine with having their own version of what a Zombie is. Who says a headshot should kill these zombies? The Flood for example, had no "head". And for those that don't play PVP, the crafting/tower defense mechanics are central to the survival experience, so zombies need to be able to break through walls otherwise it's all pointless. However I don't think it makes sense for them to be able to dig through rock/concrete, iron..at least not the normal types. Even on the blood moon. Should definitely be some special types for this.
That said, Zombies definitely shouldn't recognize traps and avoid them and Zeds Dodging your aiming is actually a silly concept and looks comical on screen. These things actually interfere with the purpose of other core systems, and therefore really break immersion and make your base defenses feel somewhat arbitrary. I'm back to hiding in a high tower for the Blood moon because that's the only way to survive again. Would be nice for Devs to figure this out better. If you can build with high end materials that endure attacks really well and trap up your obvious paths inward, it opens up base design. I like that they don't always focus on your doors anymore, cause that never made sense, but they shouldn't tear through every material with ease.
MadMole, I wonder if you guys have a solid backstory for the Zeds and the world? Doing so keeps the feature updates tied to an overall set of rules. For example, If you decided early on that the Zombies are mutants with super strength and intelligence, then you design the game around that IDEA so changes to core mechanics don't break well understood rules of other parts of the game. I know it's Alpha, but it's been in Alpha for a long time, so I think most of us have a sense of what the world IS. So when you abruptly change things that seem to violate the "rules" of the world, that's when you get the most flak.
I'd also just like to know the backstory for lore sake.
Frostblunt
New member
I gotta say this is all very well said ... better than how I could express it. Hope the devs read this one.I've been with her game since it's initial phase, but rarely post. Gotta give my thoughts on this one though.
Gotta call BS on that MadMole. I returned to this game with much skepticism but I've been enjoying A17 way more than expected, I'm hooked again in fact. But the zombie spawning is the worst part of the update right now. Indoors, when you attack a sleeper, or make too much noise, zombies spawn in around you in rooms you've just cleared. Even in spots you were just looking at seconds before. Immersion breaking and frustrating, not fun. This should never happen. Clearing rooms and knowing behind you is safe if fundamental to almost all survival game experiences, and this breaks it.
To touch on a few other points, I think players need to remember that Zombies have always been depicted differently...some run..some talk...some are smart...some infect others don't....some eat you others just kill you...so the devs are fine with having their own version of what a Zombie is. Who says a headshot should kill these zombies? The Flood for example, had no "head". And for those that don't play PVP, the crafting/tower defense mechanics are central to the survival experience, so zombies need to be able to break through walls otherwise it's all pointless. However I don't think it makes sense for them to be able to dig through rock/concrete, iron..at least not the normal types. Even on the blood moon. Should definitely be some special types for this.
That said, Zombies definitely shouldn't recognize traps and avoid them and Zeds Dodging your aiming is actually a silly concept and looks comical on screen. These things actually interfere with the purpose of other core systems, and therefore really break immersion and make your base defenses feel somewhat arbitrary. I'm back to hiding in a high tower for the Blood moon because that's the only way to survive again. Would be nice for Devs to figure this out better. If you can build with high end materials that endure attacks really well and trap up your obvious paths inward, it opens up base design. I like that they don't always focus on your doors anymore, cause that never made sense, but they shouldn't tear through every material with ease.
MadMole, I wonder if you guys have a solid backstory for the Zeds and the world? Doing so keeps the feature updates tied to an overall set of rules. For example, If you decided early on that the Zombies are mutants with super strength and intelligence, then you design the game around that IDEA so changes to core mechanics don't break well understood rules of other parts of the game. I know it's Alpha, but it's been in Alpha for a long time, so I think most of us have a sense of what the world IS. So when you abruptly change things that seem to violate the "rules" of the world, that's when you get the most flak.
I'd also just like to know the backstory for lore sake.
Yes, they do. I have seen this multiple times and is most prevalent during quests though it also happens when out of a quest. It clearly has something to do with when they populate the world.
Basically, it seems that there is a line that you cross where the game recognizes where you are and then spawns the appropriate sleepers. In certain circumstances, that line is close enough to a spawn point that the player can see the zed spawn in. When you leave the area they despawn. Last time this happened was the new hotel - sleepers viably appeared on the balconies when I was flying by in my gyrocopter and then despawned when I landed and went to take care of them. Later, in the same poi, destroying a false floor revealed a room full of zeds under me waiting to take me out had I fallen through. Circling around while sneaking I notice that an entirely different set has spawned in when I reentered the room (a lot fewer radiated zeds the second time around). I discovered I could respawn them over and over again by going back to the door to the room and then returning to the hole in the floor. New set every time. You can also tell that they are not coming from somewhere else because they are still sleeping - this only seems to happen when the zeds are not yet aware of the player. I have not seen them spawn in after I have been detected but then again I am usually more concerned with the zombie trying to eat me at that point than if other zeds pop in unannounced.
Playing around with the mechanic I have located several areas where the zeds spawn in while the empty location is visible. You can even use it to help clear an area stealthily if you cant find the last few zombies or they are behind a barrier. Crossing over the line multiple times will change the spawn location for the sleepers but does not, at least as far as I can tell, change the overall number of zeds spawning in. It is not overly common and I don't think you could call this a bug per se - it seems to be baked into the spawning mechanic itself. I would imagine that this is a performance thing - the game does not keep an entire skyscraper POI populated just because I am within 30 blocks of it (or 2 of them if I am in between them) BUT you can clearly see some of the spawn points for several POIs - particularly those that have spawns on external areas like balconies.
And I know, video would be nice but I don't have any way of taking a video in game. I may try taking some screenshots next time I run into the mechanic in a manner that I can manually manipulate it but it is not as though this is overly prevelent. I can also see how many people would not notice this unless they regularly clear POIs in a stealth manner.
Ghostlight
New member
I would like the AI to be more random and less calculated at attacking weak spots and pathing round traps. But most of all I would like there to be MANY more zombies in the world. POIs are fine but the world is far too empty for a zombie apocalypse. We need a lot more, and the wandering hordes need to be much bigger and much more frequent, especially mid- to late-game.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ghostlight
New member
Eh? That's the only thing about the AI that is decent.
Scyris
New member
I've had fun fighting them too in a17 compared to before, largely due to the ragdoll system they now use. However, I do agree with the OP with some things, i've cleared rooms in a poi only to have a zombie start hitting me from behind from a cleared room, no, it didn't come from outside as I usually barricade the door I just smashed to get in so I have a early warning system if something starts wandering in from outside or is trying to.
The zombies running in general I find silly, as well as the amount of zombies inside some of the poi's. The average family is 4 people, there shouldn't be 8-14 zombies in a tiny house. You know one of those small square 2-3 floor ones with 2 floors up and a basement. I also feel the spawner needs some tweaks because radiated zombies shouldn't be as common as they are late game, I mean there should be some, but it should never get to the point where thats virtually all you find in poi's anymore. Could work like loot, higher gamestage, higher chance for higher tier zombies to spawn, but it should never be guarnteed.
I also agree with the traps, the zombies should walk right thru them like they aren't there, them pathing thru a house I can understand, I actually prefer it that way as less chance of them destroying loot containers with the new ai. However, imo the zombies should detect traps as air blocks and completly ignore them if they are there, whats the point to traps if they just walk around them? its bad enough the spikes do such pathethic damage now that its just a waste of resources to make them anymore. barbed wire is king, doesn't hurt them (but spikes don't really either) but it slows them down and makes them easy kills, especally if your gunning them down or have some dart traps around.
I rarely build bases myself as I find its just too time consuming both getting the materials and repairing after a horde night, so I tend to use certan poi's where I can easly funnel them into kill boxes, like that large brown church, or the old fire station. Only base in a16 and below I "made" was underground ones, and not because it was easy to avoid horde night, its because I didn't have to worry about Structural integrity that far down much. Sadly that is ruined in A17, even if I played how I used to where I was in a seperate poi for horde night, they would still randomly dig down to me at any time, making a underground base just not really viable anymore. TBH I hate the zombie digging, I mean for dogs and bears it makes sense but not for the human zombies.
I also find the perk system kinda silly as a whole, why? how does spending a point in something magically give us the knowledge to build some of the things we can make? In a game like Ark survival evolved it made more sense as you had that implant that I assume has some sort of uplink to a database, but in 7dtd there is nothing like that, having to learn how to make things from books to me made the most sense. I also feel this reduced alot of the fun of the game, as every game your generally going to get the exact same things in the same order it takes a lot of the fun out of it for me and others. Gone is that feeling of finding that book you need/want and going "Oh sweet! I found that early!" like in a16 and below.
Last edited by a moderator:
Stm125champ
New member
Obviously you never used a bow before 38 shots and not and not enough force to kill you have no idea what u are talking about go back to your dungeon and dragons
Khulkhuum
New member
I saw today a trailer for The Black Masses game. Interesting concept where you fight tens of thousands of zombie like enemies (yes, they are all spawned in a medueval type city).
Also, reading through this topic i think i'll remake Z block damage detriments mod to diversify only a couple selected Zs to dig, to destroy bricks and metal blocks, etc. Apart from that, i am tweaking zombie hp and spawning, so that they are more easily killed, but spawn in larger numbers.
It's a pity we will have to wait for zombies to be redone to use up more memory than really needed.
Considering Z spawning in POIs, they should spawn at a minimum distance of being able to hear a loud player. So what if there will be suddenly 50 Zs all around (even more in skyscrapers and many POIs clumped together), i think this wouldn't break immersion. That is because if you never enter most of these POIs, you will not even see them and they will despawn.
Also, reading through this topic i think i'll remake Z block damage detriments mod to diversify only a couple selected Zs to dig, to destroy bricks and metal blocks, etc. Apart from that, i am tweaking zombie hp and spawning, so that they are more easily killed, but spawn in larger numbers.
It's a pity we will have to wait for zombies to be redone to use up more memory than really needed.
Considering Z spawning in POIs, they should spawn at a minimum distance of being able to hear a loud player. So what if there will be suddenly 50 Zs all around (even more in skyscrapers and many POIs clumped together), i think this wouldn't break immersion. That is because if you never enter most of these POIs, you will not even see them and they will despawn.
Ghostlight
New member
Check out They Are Billions; great game.
Lanadon Conners
New member
Ultimately, the decision on if we get "Walking Dead" zombies or "World War Z" styled zombies is up to the Devs and their master plan.
For myself, I am Old School and prefer mine to be the Mindless, slow shambling, wont stop until destroyed and herd forming zombies that will push forward against your defenses until one or the other gives. Otherwise, they could be called Demons, Vampires, Aliens, Possessed, or a multitude of other Mythical/ Fantasy creatures or Lore.
Just my opinion
For myself, I am Old School and prefer mine to be the Mindless, slow shambling, wont stop until destroyed and herd forming zombies that will push forward against your defenses until one or the other gives. Otherwise, they could be called Demons, Vampires, Aliens, Possessed, or a multitude of other Mythical/ Fantasy creatures or Lore.
Just my opinion
RipClaw
Well-known member
I'm not a fan of enemies behaving randomly. You can't plan for random behavior.
Even though the AI in A16 wasn't as intelligent as in A17, the zombie's actions weren't random.
For example I had a funnel base which worked in A16 but I had to dig deep trenches to guide the zombies into the tunnels. In A17 they ran into the tunnel on their own. If the zombies behave randomly they would just start hitting the walls randomly instead of being slaughtered in the tunnel by my dart traps and electric fences.
And I'm no friend of firearms either. In A16 the only firearm I used regularly was the sniper and that only during the Bloodmoon Horde. Instead I prefer the crossbow and the bow.
If the zombies would only behave coincidentally you would be forced to use firearms with high DPS to kill them fast enough before they do too much damage.
When You're stronger and just charge into buildings and attack they do appear to spawn out of thin air. For some reason the game gives all kinds of micro stutters as the zombie ai either wakes up or spawns them on their location in the building.
Yesterday when playing I ran in, some zombies were visible and I was trying to club them before they stood up. A real unwelcome challenge with the micro stutter, and when I turned around I saw a zombie spawn in "out of thin air" as it wasn't there when I ran past and I physically saw it appear when nothing was there previously.
Hopefully, all this will be rectified once the spawning/loading/ai wake up doesn't cause crazy amounts of micro stutter during your optimization right now. I don't know if you can assign these tasks to different cpu cores so these things can happen without waiting for terrain loading or whatever. Would be nice if cores could be utilized in a way that is actually efficient. But I guess that could be an engine restriction too.
Khulkhuum
New member
The Black Masses is a first person fighter, most similar to 7DTD, They Are Billions also have a great concept, but it's a top down (or isometric) strategy. Quite different. TBM also involves jumping into hundreds-big groups to slaughter them, fightin with various weapons and have tougher enemies than bare zombie like grunts.