Learn By Crafting Balance

[warmer]

A simple way to avoid someone spamming stone axes to level up passed tier 1 is to diminish crafting xp for each new crafting level in a tier and finally remove crafting XP for an item once you have reach legendary crafting in that tier.

ie.
Stone axe lvl 1 crafting 100% xp
Stone axe lvl 2 crafting 80% xp
Stone axe lvl 3 crafting 60% xp
Stone axe lvl 4 crafting 40% xp
Stone axe lvl 5 crafting 20% xp
Stone axe lvl 6 crafting 0% xp

The only way to earn more XP is to craft the next tier object

This would require finding a magazine to give you the last level required to move from tier 1 lvl 6 stone axe to tier 2 lvl 1 iron tools.

This seems both fair and also logical in my mind. The magazine gives you that knowledge required for the "leap of logic" to go to the next tier that is a big sticking point for many people with LBD.

Thoughts?

 

[ALEXZANDER]

A simple way to avoid someone spamming stone axes to level up passed tier 1 is to diminish crafting xp for each new crafting level in a tier and finally remove crafting XP for an item once you have reach legendary crafting in that tier.

ie.
Stone axe lvl 1 crafting 100% xp
Stone axe lvl 2 crafting 80% xp
Stone axe lvl 3 crafting 60% xp
Stone axe lvl 4 crafting 40% xp
Stone axe lvl 5 crafting 20% xp
Stone axe lvl 6 crafting 0% xp

The only way to earn more XP is to craft the next tier object

This would require finding a magazine to give you the last level required to move from tier 1 lvl 6 stone axe to tier 2 lvl 1 iron tools.

This seems both fair and also logical in my mind. The magazine gives you that knowledge required for the "leap of logic" to go to the next tier that is a big sticking point for many people with LBD.

Thoughts?

 

[Vaeliorin]

If I have to spam craft to improve my crafting, I'm modding it out right away, and I've generally been an advocate of LBD returning. My hope is that it'll be using tools/weapons that, along with the magazines, will improve your crafting skill.

That said, having to save magazines (or possibly be stuck until I find a magazine) sounds awful to me. Yet I'm okay with needing schematics to craft things. I think it's the difference between being blocked from progress versus simply not having access to something.

Maybe if you make it so that a magazine read at any time will unlock the next tier (or whatever) it might be okay, assuming they aren't stupidly rare (at which point, why even bother having the requirement, really?)

 

[ElCabong]

From what I just saw on YouTube this morning, they're bringing back the old system where you would level things up by combining them. This would improve your crafting skill. Magazines aren't going away, you're just not going to have to read as many of them. You would make a better weapon my combining them too.

Learning by doing makes the most sense with the weapon you're always using and your skill increases naturally. I didn't see any mention of that.

 

[meganoth]

The important question with weapons or tools is: Will you be learning by crafting or using the weapon or tool? AFAIK madmole didn't say which one he will do, but my guess would be that it will be the latter, using the weapon or tool. I.e. you would learn to craft better weapons by shooting zombies and you would learn better stone axe crafting by hacking wood or stone with the stone axe.

No question that learning by crafting would be more immersive, but that would be the only advantage. Disadvantages:
1) If crafting isn't done through spam crafting the dopamine kick is missing that most LBD proponents want. Even if spam crafting were done you can't really make the player craft for example 100 pistols per learning step.
2) And crafting always needs ingredients. Anything but crafting exactly 1 weapon to get to the next quality level would mean you are crafting useless weapons just to get better at crafting, i.e. spam crafting, the thing everyone, especially TFP, wants to avoid

On the other hand using a weapon or tool means just doing what you normally do, fullfills the requirement of all the instant gratification dopamine addicts. And is done often enough that you can split one learning step into an appropriate number of use-item steps, meaning you can easily balance the average learning speed by increasing that number.

 

[warmer]

The important question with weapons or tools is: Will you be learning by crafting or using the weapon or tool? AFAIK madmole didn't say which one he will do, but my guess would be that it will be the latter, using the weapon or tool. I.e. you would learn to craft better weapons by shooting zombies and you would learn better stone axe crafting by hacking wood or stone with the stone axe.

I failed to mention that magazines would still give you XP towards the next level in crafting in my original post.
The point I was attempting to make was a magazine should be required to go to the next level and spam crafting is not only discouraged, but counter productive at the end of a tier.

From what I heard weapon skills are not part of the LBD system, only crafting skills. I personally like the idea of getting better with a given weapon type as I use it more. That to me is the essence of an RPG in my opinion. Your actions directly influence your characters development.

 

[Roland]

I doubt it will be crafting lbd to improve crafting. It is much more likely to be using an item to improve the stats of it when you craft a new version. So crafting 1000 stone axes will do nothing but using your stone axe 1000 times will do what reading some number of tool magazines do now.

 

[meganoth]

I failed to mention that magazines would still give you XP towards the next level in crafting in my original post.
The point I was attempting to make was a magazine should be required to go to the next level and spam crafting is not only discouraged, but counter productive at the end of a tier.

From what I heard weapon skills are not part of the LBD system, only crafting skills. I personally like the idea of getting better with a given weapon type as I use it more. That to me is the essence of an RPG in my opinion. Your actions directly influence your characters development.

Maybe I was not explainig well. We already know that LBD will only be used to get a higher crafting skill, not better weapons skills, that is a given. But the question is what actions are used to increase your crafting skill in weapons, and one choice would be crafting, the other choice would be using the weapon. And in my opinion it will be the latter.

In other words I agree with what Roland said.

 

[Roland]

Especially given that by A15 they had already gotten rid of spam crafting LBD while keeping the rest going into A16. They already know they don’t want spam crafting.

 

[warmer]

I doubt it will be crafting lbd to improve crafting. It is much more likely to be using an item to improve the stats of it when you craft a new version. So crafting 1000 stone axes will do nothing but using your stone axe 1000 times will do what reading some number of tool magazines do now.

this is interesting, I hadn't considered using the item improves crafting. that completely eliminates the spam and encourages game play decisions. I think that is really well thought out.