PC Late Game stage, POI's are getting to where they aren't worth looting anymore
- Thread starter OnlyMeiya
- Start date
EpicSince81
New member
We removed all items apart from decor and solar from the traders inventory and disabled selling. Now we depend on going outside for loot and ammo so much more.
POIs and Quests are much more important and ammo needs to be crafted or taken from cars/POIs again instead of buying everything for cheap.
POIs and Quests are much more important and ammo needs to be crafted or taken from cars/POIs again instead of buying everything for cheap.
Ghostlight
New member
Yeah but it didn't occur anything like as early as it now does in A17. Day 30, I have everything and no need to leave the base except for Bones and Gunpowder.
General Lee
New member
Bingo! You will spend much more ammunition on clearing zombies out of POIs than you will get out of POIs if something goes wrong and stealth goes out the window. I was thinking one way to deal with this regarding smaller POIs is to work with at least one partner...one of you goes in, wakes up the zeds, and then runs out of the POI leading the majority of them away from the POI, while the other person goes in and finishes clearing it out if need be. Then the rabbit can circle back and help clear it out and loot the place.
This wouldn't really be necessary if the devs hadn't nerfed explosives all to hell. As it is, even with perks, explosives don't really do enough damage to warrant their use.
Now that legendary weapons are on the horizon I think long term playability is getting better. Still I think crafting as well as the trader should not be able to craft/sell items with max quality, because crafting is absolutely deterministic and plannable, there isn't any luck involved. And mass production is no problem at all.
The moment you can craft items of quality x, your whole group has instantly all items you can craft at that level. While if you scavenge a lvl x pick axe, only one person has such a pick axe (until you find more) and nobody has a lvl x shovel or lvl x fire axe.
The trader has luck involved, but he is practically like a loot container with not 1-3 items inside but about 100 where you can pick what you want. Or like a quest reward selected with a "Daring Adventurer" perk of 100.
The moment you can craft items of quality x, your whole group has instantly all items you can craft at that level. While if you scavenge a lvl x pick axe, only one person has such a pick axe (until you find more) and nobody has a lvl x shovel or lvl x fire axe.
The trader has luck involved, but he is practically like a loot container with not 1-3 items inside but about 100 where you can pick what you want. Or like a quest reward selected with a "Daring Adventurer" perk of 100.
Yea, 7D2D needs a total overhaul in my opinion.
* Traders need to go or only trade very basic loot near a players start location.
* The more away you are from your starting location, the move dangerous enemies you get!
* The more away you are from your starting location, the better the loot becomes
* The more away you are from your starting location, then Traders sell more valuable loot but at VERY EXPENSIVE prices. Hey, they need to be expensive to pay for their protection in these dangerous areas.
* You can have medium value POIs "near" the starting location but they must be clearly dangerous looking. So new players know "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here."
* The game needs a mechanism so you can not drive around with your minibikie, jeep without impunity. Currently that game mechanic is broken because as long as you have gas and do not stop, you can get out of almost any situation.
* Distant loot makes the vehicles actually more useful / important.
* Vehicles need to be Zombie targets ( warm engine, ... ), so you actually need to protect your vehicle and can not just dump it around where ever you go!
* Weapon / Tools / Parts need to be research able ( see Rust / Subnautica ... maybe you need x items to research ) or you need to find books in cabinets. No more magic god XP knowledge because you beat a few zombies to dead.
* Blueprints can be Trader Quest rewards! Lean a man to fish ...
* We need radiated / poison and other zones to limit the player from simply cross crossing all over the map. POIs can have poison or radiation stacked on it but also hold very good loot ( never looted ).
* And we need more stuff, more tools, items, crafting combination, workbench or other manufacturing types so you base becomes ultra important, giving you more a reason to defend. And more reasons to explore, to find items.
* The Zombie balance is for a different topic.
So sorry Pimp but this system looks way more balanced and interesting then what 7D2D is turning into. Its newbie friendlier but also gives people reasons to travel around. Not like now, seeing the exact same city everywhere on the map, what gives you really no reason to even explore.
Lets say Alpha 25?
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* The game needs a mechanism so you can not drive around with your minibikie, jeep without impunity. Currently that game mechanic is broken because as long as you have gas and do not stop, you can get out of almost any situation.
I think bandits would solve this problem. You might run into a bandit controlled territory, some roadblock. If you aren't paying attention you could get sniped by guys guarding the wall if just blindly driving.
If TFP is particularly ambitious, they could make an almost infinite progression system, but I admit this likely is not realistic, but it doesn't change the fact that personally I would find it very fun and almost infinite replay value...
Instead of world limitations, make infinite worlds... I mean, it's been done before in many other games, so why not?
The advantage of this is that then, if you apply the increased loot, increased difficulty principle to the game, you could literally progress forever.
I know, probably not going to happen, but hey, never know.
AT the very least could make it so bigger worlds have more progression so a 16 km world would have more progression than a 4km world would. Makes it so playing 4 km worlds would be more newbies and 16 km is for someone wanting to play a longer, more challenging game.
RipClaw
Well-known member
The basic assumption with many of your suggestions is that the player does not move too far from his starting point at the beginning. However, if you started in a rather uncomfortable corner, you might want to walk a few kilometres to get to a friendlier area.
In my current game I play on the Navezgane map and started in the desert. Since this is not the best area in the A17, I went to the green one. That's almost 2 kilometers I ran there.
In addition one would have extreme problems with multiplayer. Each player has his own starting point.
Its a issue with the map generation. This can be solved by having player spawn near 0,0. And having 0,0 being a friendly zone.
Multiplayer and Single player are two different games. By pushing changes for A17 that benefit MP, we see the consequences for SP. 7D2D was supposed to be a SP focused game but it feels like A17 turned that table around.
If the MP is group playing, then having them start in the same area is not really a big issue. Most people wast time anyway running toward each other now.
The real issue is if its a competitive / open server. But that type of servers has always had balancing issues, especially when people enter a already established server as new players ( Zombie levels, lack of resources, stripped cities, high level other players etc ).
It can still be solved but it depends on how many players a server supports. You can do multi safe zones where the players are separated but they you run into issues with the map size ( more safe spawning zones means more medium zones and less dangerous zones ). There is a reason why the Pimp ignored this part for most of the Alphas. It does not balance very well with SP. This is why most games separate single player vs open multi player.
7D2D already has this ability. The map generation uses biomes, these biomes use a list of assets that can be placed in this biome. The issue is that more biomes means more resources needed. And this is where the pimp already run into issues with 7D2D.
If they did not have this issue, generating more unique biomes is much more possible. As well as nominating spots where to generate them more frequently. While maps will be more predictable ( snow north, desert south, hills east, ... ), they still have random terrain, cities etc.
Then it becomes a issue of having spawn areas and loot tables in those areas. No offense but this is actually not the hardest part. I did that kind of stuff 20 years ago when modding Ultima Online. It just takes more time to set up and maintain those list. The route generation does not need to be changed, nor the city generation. What you need is more district types for cities: Commercial Low, Commercial Med, Commercial High, each with different buildings, who in turn have different loot and enemy spawns. If you want to go crazy, you can have Commercial Snow Med, Commercial Snow High, ... etc ...for even more distinct styles.
Like i said, not hard but work intensive. Especially when the game keeps changing. If you have a stable game with stable and plentiful assets, then creating the lists and balancing them out is just a bunch of boring work that needs to be done one time and maintained after that.
HungryZombie
New member
How many times have you driven around to avoid hordenight?
RipClaw
Well-known member
Forcing players to do something is never a good idea.Never actually. I've avoided fighting at bases sometimes and fight on foot, but driving all night is boring, and I want their exp
There's really no realistic way to force the player to participate at this point short of making hordes target your base and not you anyway.
You should encourage players to do something. If you force a player to do something, it feels like a punishment and it always goes down badly.
HungryZombie
New member
Me either. I asked cause I was curious then why this is a concern. I think such a small portion of the playerbase would even consider this that it's not worth them trying to figure a counter for.Never actually. I've avoided fighting at bases sometimes and fight on foot, but driving all night is boring, and I want their exp
There's really no realistic way to force the player to participate at this point short of making hordes target your base and not you anyway.
Agreed. And they already do. Zombies are rich with exp and loot and I think that's reward enough ;-) Plus the sheer satisfaction that comes with killing a horde.
All I was saying is that if the intent was to make it so the player was forced into combat, that I provided a scenario that would do so, not that I necessarily want that solution to be implemented.
One idea that could provide incentive to fight at your base rather than away from it is to provide bonus to loot and exp from zombies if you are less than 50, 100 meters from your land claim block. This would reward players, while not "forcing" you to fight away from the base or even run away.
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RipClaw
Well-known member
What the Horde delivers to me in loot and XP brings me also few PIOs. The loot is small and there is nothing special about it. Currently I don't see any real reward for fighting the Horde.
As far as the satisfaction of having fought the Horde is concerned, I'm not so enthusiastic. Give me an auger with enough fuel, repair kits and enough to eat and drink and I build you a tunnel across the whole map. That's my kind of fun.
I fight the Horde but for me it's more a duty than a pleasure.