PC Late Game stage, POI's are getting to where they aren't worth looting anymore

[RyanX]

This.

I play with my wife and we are roughly level 45-55. We went from looting and questing to WTF?! it seems instantly. The rads/ferals are too numerous and difficult to risk it anymore. Oh we could do it, but we would end up with less ammo than when we started. So quests are out, looting buildings is out..guess we just hunker in our base farming and shooting arrows. We haven't played since our last session a week ago, and are wondering if we will return. And I have about 1.5k hours into it.

 

[HungryZombie]

Its not that i dont trust the Abilities of the Development Team, its more that i really have Problems to trust the Roadmap if something like that exist. Reason i talked about Skyrim is that it looks for me the Team redo the Game again and again cause they played other Games and liked this or that of the different Games they Play and not cause they had something liket hat in Mind before.
And yes that has also something to do with Gamestages, LAte Game Progression, POI , Loot and Loot Quality.

Currently in Vanilla its Easy mode the entire Game also on High Difficulty Setting cause only giving Zombies more HP does not make it more Difficult to survive.

We startet the Server in Difficulty Insane with Loot Chance of 70% and Respawn of Loot every 20 Days. And hej great People found Guns and more Guns and even more Guns and Ammo and more Ammo , Booster Books in masses same for Mods for Tools and Guns.

So the only real Limitation was Player Level and to raise that Level they did not have to go and Loot and search inside the POI thy could only stand in front of the POI shoot into it and lure the Zombies Out of the POI kil them level up get more Recipes and crafte more stuff they wantet. Others startet to mine a little bit to get flooded in Resources (only coal was not much found) sold stuff to trader to buy other stuff cause Trader sells you most of the Ingame Items.

so tell me where is it Survival if you can go to the local Wasteland Trader and buy the Stuff you want or get tons of loot in every POI? To be honest its a Apocalyptic World there should be no working Gun in every POI and no fresh Food or high quality Tools and Items. Survivors woudl have used it to survive or sold it to get something else. That game with the current Loot Table and the Current Whack a Zombie Playstyle does not feel like Surival Game for me if Resources, Tools, Weapons and Food is everywhere around me in insane high amounts.

ok sure i modded most of it already but my Opinion stay same and you ask why its botherin me? cause i Like the Idea and the Game it was before the Devs decided they must dumb down everything to make it easy enough that every keysmash kid can play it without thinking a second about survival.

RavenGT's comment pretty much sums up anything I would have said in response.

Still you are entitled to your feelings on the matter and I can relate that it's tough when your used to something and it changes, let alone changes and is not yet finished. At least we know they know and are working on it and can hope for the best.

 

[pahbi]

At some point, once you have so much stuff you don't know what to do with it all, going into a POI isn't about getting more stuff, its just about seeing the POI and killing everything in it.

- P

 

[EzRemade]

Small survivor camps that offer quests with nice rewards seems much more appropriate for this type of setting. Everything about the traders from their placements in the world, to their noisy closing/opening announcements detracts from the feeling that you're trying to survive in a post apocalyptic world.

Farming is a hard one to balance as well. As much as I like it, it really does trivialize all of the biological survival aspects. Mining is one thing because without materials to fashion bullets, you would never be able to fight or find food, but farming... Eh. I highly doubt farming would ever be removed though, probably would need a modded server for that one.

After getting to level 120, looking for beakers for 45hrs, I've started over an a public PvP server and am trying to survive as a wanderer. It's surprisingly a lot of fun to not be tied down, always looking for that next meal or a few extra rounds to stuff in your measly pockets. With the scattered workbenches and chemstations around, I technically could still progress my INT and craft things on the go. I may play like this more often, it's surprisingly refreshing.

 

[OnlyMeiya]

Small survivor camps that offer quests with nice rewards seems much more appropriate for this type of setting. Everything about the traders from their placements in the world, to their noisy closing/opening announcements detracts from the feeling that you're trying to survive in a post apocalyptic world.
Farming is a hard one to balance as well. As much as I like it, it really does trivialize all of the biological survival aspects. Mining is one thing because without materials to fashion bullets, you would never be able to fight or find food, but farming... Eh. I highly doubt farming would ever be removed though, probably would need a modded server for that one.

After getting to level 120, looking for beakers for 45hrs, I've started over an a public PvP server and am trying to survive as a wanderer. It's surprisingly a lot of fun to not be tied down, always looking for that next meal or a few extra rounds to stuff in your measly pockets. With the scattered workbenches and chemstations around, I technically could still progress my INT and craft things on the go. I may play like this more often, it's surprisingly refreshing.

Nomad runs, they were a thing and still are. Glad to hear it.

 

[OnlyMeiya]

Some irony here...
I see people saying often that looting is not fun due to the POIs being so full of Ferals / Cops / both. I can sympathize with that. However the point in the game when POI looting DOES become extremely fun is when you have sufficient firepower to take on the Ferals/Cops and enjoy it - which is around the same time where you NO LONGER NEED TO LOOT POIs. Pffft.

Which would be fine if I didn't spend all my time training up my Lucky Looter skill to 5/5, whats the point then?

 

[giltirn]

And that brings us back to the original issue. The game has no identity. It's trying to be ALL the things and coming up mediocre at it, as opposed to previous Alphas where they focused on its strengths as Survival Horror with a n amazing building system.
It's trying to be Falllout and thats a losing play.

100% agree. Perhaps they backed themselves into a corner by selling the game as a "open-world game that is a unique combination of first person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games. It presents combat, crafting, looting, mining, exploration, and character growth" (Steam description). Wow, over-reach much? And then there are the enemies which are not really zombies anymore but a big random bag of apocalypse tropes including undead skeletal vultures, direwolves with glowing eyes and soon, Mad Max-style bandits. Rather than offering a streamlined vision of a game it tries to be a little of everything but does so only half-assed, while at the same time completely neglecting the aspect where it really shines: voxel base building.

I wish someone could just take A16 and smooth out the rough edges, remove the silly things, and then just optimize it so we can have more zombies. I'd be a happy punter.

 

[FileMachete]

Last POI I ran was the bear den thing, where there are 2 zombie bears in cages (that are open). My GS was ~92 or so.

Ran around banging on the outside walls to get em to come out n play.

Out the front they did come, think I got at least 4 cops & a few ferals.

Another couple cops inside & more ferals. No glowys though.

Point of this is that I just had day 28 BM, GS of 120 at start and only had -2- cops all night (no rads).

Somethings goofed.

 

[OnlyMeiya]

You mention you are 1-shotting enemies with a bow. Therefore you are playing on a easier difficulty than many players. Therefore you are probably not seeing the issue the OP mentions.
- - - Updated - - -

Whaaaat? I am level 110 and have just finished my day 28 horde. What the hell are you (not) doing?

I can One shot enemies with a bow on standard difficulty, it just requires higher perception/boom headshot and some points into sneak.

 

[Cirion]

+1 on vanilla version of game

It's generally somewhat worth it for me still, but only because my game is heavily modded to deal with a lot of things I consider to be a headache in A17 and this is one of them.

AFAIK green zombies can not be one hit killed with stealth (on insane difficulty) except for some mods I added (increased perk levels so I can do more stealth damage) plus slightly more powerful ranged weapons in general. In vanilla you can't stealth kill green zombies, at least not on insane (which is my difficulty of choice).

 

[Venemox]

100% agree. Perhaps they backed themselves into a corner by selling the game as a "open-world game that is a unique combination of first person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games. It presents combat, crafting, looting, mining, exploration, and character growth" (Steam description). Wow, over-reach much? And then there are the enemies which are not really zombies anymore but a big random bag of apocalypse tropes including undead skeletal vultures, direwolves with glowing eyes and soon, Mad Max-style bandits. Rather than offering a streamlined vision of a game it tries to be a little of everything but does so only half-assed, while at the same time completely neglecting the aspect where it really shines: voxel base building.
I wish someone could just take A16 and smooth out the rough edges, remove the silly things, and then just optimize it so we can have more zombies. I'd be a happy punter.

Better to whole-ass one thing than half-ass two.

EDIT: Typographical corrections.

 

[Feycat]

We don't even loot random POIs anymore. We're only doing quests and looting buildings that way.

Frankly, once you're that high level, who cares about the loot? In A16 it was the same way, you got high enough level and you were getting nothing you need. At least taking a T5 quest to clear out the 6 floor apt building gives you something to do.

 

[OnlyMeiya]

We don't even loot random POIs anymore. We're only doing quests and looting buildings that way.
Frankly, once you're that high level, who cares about the loot? In A16 it was the same way, you got high enough level and you were getting nothing you need. At least taking a T5 quest to clear out the 6 floor apt building gives you something to do.

No looting in 16 was still very useful past late game stage for guns and gun parts, since you can craft them now, guns are no longer a valuable part of looting.

Military armor was also very still needed in 16 as well,but now you can craft that and steel armor as well.

Now the only thing worth going out for is looting for mod schematics and mods.

 

[Ranzera]

I can One shot enemies with a bow on standard difficulty, it just requires higher perception/boom headshot and some points into sneak.

Plus it's easy to get 3 bolts into any zed before you have to worry about actually fighting them. Shoot sleeper in head > they fall down > shoot them anywhere > they stand up > they pause a moment on their feet before charging you > third shot, hopefully a head shot.

They either die before they charge you or they are very weak by the time you pull out the sledge.

 

[Vomkat]

A17 totally destroyed any end game we once had.
Once you can craft tier 6 items, there is absolutely zero point in ever looting a POI again. There is nothing you need. NOTHING. Get your food from your farm, bullets from your mine and mods from the trader (quests mostly). No need to loot, no need to explore the map.

Pretty sad since this "end point" occurs around level 90 to 100 which is day 25 in my current playthrough. Day 25 and I never need to loot again, having looted the one small town I spawned beside, and that's it. Tragic.

Game is a shadow of what it used to be pre this garbage alpha.

And if you decrease loot spawn... then you will find the game more challenging and not be on the forums whining about it being too easy.

 

[OnlyMeiya]

And if you decrease loot spawn... then you will find the game more challenging and not be on the forums whining about it being too easy.

It has nothing to do with loot amount, its that you become so self sufficient you have no reason to leave your base ever again for a poi loot so even if you lowered it, it may delay it some but it wont stop it from happening.

 

[Ghostlight]

And if you decrease loot spawn... then you will find the game more challenging and not be on the forums whining about it being too easy.

You are missing the point. The need for me to explore and loot ends super early in A17, not because the game gave me too much loot, but because the game let me craft everything it has to offer through perks without giving me a long-term progression goal that involved further looting. Gun parts and blueprints used to provide this.

Since I was trying to max out on each map in A16 (level 600 everything), I never once quit a map before day 100. Not once. In A17 being maxed out occurs on day 30 - 40. EVERY SINGLE RUN.

Thanks for ruining the adventure, perk system.

 

[Benjiro]

You are missing the point. The need for me to explore and loot ends super early in A17, not because the game gave me too much loot, but because the game let me craft everything it has to offer through perks without giving me a long-term progression goal that involved further looting. Gun parts and blueprints used to provide this.

+1 ...

The funny thing being there are several solutions for this problem but that actually requires a change of thinking in the Pimps mentality.

Simply have the starting area as safe, with low loot and low level enemies. As you go farther away, you encounter radiation in some areas, so you need rad suit or iodine tablets or other solutions. The enemies levels also increase. But so does the loot and resources. You gain the ability to craft items by researching them ( need multiple pieces ) or from books. Exploring a dangerous area can feel very rewarding!

By introducing more ( and rarer ) resources for crafting, these can be place away from the players starting position. That prevents the player from learning a skill and simply spam crafting items later on. And when you reintroduce real quality / damage / block damage levels as in A15, players also do not get overpowered items when first crafting.

Yes, its a more time sink but what do people prefer. Fallout like "get everything" fast with some XP leveling and getting bored off every game fast. Or play a long term game, where you really learn the world, locations etc. In my opinion the Pimps took part of Fallout 4 and forgot the reason why people played Fallout 4, the locations.

Hell, just copy Subnautica their system but yea, that means you need to have a random generator that can handle more content and better zoning. Thus we run into the issue where the limited biomes and similar POIs makes no city or location unique.

The main issue is simply, TFPs love to scale down complexity and its that scaling down complexity that drives them into a corner. Less resources means less ability to tie those resources into medium or rare items or limiting players getting over powered. Look at some of the mods, a lot actually increase item counts, crafting recipes complexity and resources types. And as a result it slows down the player automatically. But its done is such a way, it makes sense. Wood frames? Sure ... Wood -> Planks + Nails and NOW you have frames. Suddenly those frames become more valuable.

Its all in the design of the game and unless the Pimp give up on trying to create a MMO, its simply going make the gameplay feel unrewarding.

 

[Cirion]

Yeah the progression is pretty illogical currently. I like the idea of increasing loot quality the further you go out from the starting area. Anyway, it makes only logical sense you shouldn't meet radiated zombies until you get close to or at the radiated biome anyway, IMO.

Because theoretically virtually every POI has the same loot table (with some exceptions), there really is no need or desire to go too far beyond your home base (unless you have loot set to not respawn, and even then, trader quests force POI's to respawn).

TFP's answer to "increasing gameplay" time is to simply increase the grind of non-unique gameplay which I'm going to be honest here - I hate when dev's do that, it's lazy, shows kind of a lack of creativity (Sorry if I sound offensive just trying to be honest because I like the game and want it to be better), and all it does is increase frustration and boredom not add depth to a game. The first thing I did when A17 rolled out is modify my XML file to decrease XP required & # of skill points per level to circumvent this because that is not at all a fun solution to this problem. As you suggested, what's the point in exploring if the POI 5 km away from your base has literally the same difficulty of enemies, and the same loot table as the house 1 km away?

Because of this, I find I rarely explore my game maps 100%, and ironically, when I finally get vehicles and CAN explore I often don't do a ton of it... because I realize pretty quick, the town that is really far away really doesn't have an advantage to bother with at all, except for the fact it might scratch my boredom itch just slightly to see something "new".

Now, if there is a plan already in place to do this, that's cool, but AFAIK we don't have much of a roadmap do we? I really think that'd placate a lot of players. Look at Deep Rock Galactic for an example. They have an AWESOME roadmap t hat clearly 100% lays out their future plans so players can kind of follow the Dev's logic in the game. I know devs don't owe that to us necessarily, but trust me when I say that would reduce a LOT of complaints and frustration players voice about a given patch (there will always be complainers, of course though, not denying that).

*EDIT*. The added benefit to this is that you could apply it to blood moons. Make it so blood moons in newbie zones are fairly benign, you could survive with just wood bases. Basically eliminate any "Game stages" or make the game stage relative to each "Zone" you're in. Increased game stages would make each zone more challenging but only to a degree. IE, you'd never get irradiated zombies in the newbie zone but you might get a few more bloaters. You could then in theory, placate the casual players by letting them just build everything in the newbie area and be relatively safe throughout the game on horde night. On the other hand, the disadvantage to building in the newbie zone is that the newbie zone would have poor loot and poor ores etc so you'd have to venture out far to get the good loot and far to get all the way back to put the loot. Players would think twice about camping out at the starter area if it takes several game hours to get back every day, would give incentive to migrate the base into more dangerous territory where the blood moons are also more dangerous but they are now near the better loot so there are pros and cons to do so whereas currently it doesn't really matter where you build since all POI's give the same loot and all areas are essentially as dangerous as the next.

This has the additional added benefit that people would build more bases, experiment more, learn what works, try something new a lot. THe only drawback is that people will complain that they don't wanna keep rebuilding. But, you don't. You just have to deal with the consequences, increased travel times.

 

[PixelLife]

I agree with OP post. Maybe Limiting the number of Rad Zombies per POI.

Small POI = 1

Medium = 2-3

Large = 3-4

Very Large = 5-6

Factories = 6-10

or something alongs those lines