PC Late Game stage, POI's are getting to where they aren't worth looting anymore

[icehot]

I was thinking this last night actually, I'm level 123, just finished day 105 horde, and afterwards I was thinking what should I do now? And it occurred to me, that raiding or doing quests might not be worth it now as I'm spending more ammo than I get from them, it's easier just to craft quality 6 items and sell loads to traders, and then mine or wrench cars for pretty much everything I need as that stuff at least makes a profit.

 

[icehot]

Dont think more loot would fix it. I already had to make so many Changes to Loot Table so people dont get tons of loot , also getting super great high quality loot if your Gamestage is higher makes not much sense.

Loot should be very rare if its somethign else as canned food, some medical stuff and some resources or low quality tools with rare chance for high quality tool.

Sure there must be a reason for people to go out and loot, for that it woudl be good if first they make Farming not some sort of One time Effort and after that you get food from your Plants wihtout need to Replace them and at same time add more Stuff you cant craft to the game.

There are many things we normally should not be able to craft with a simple Forge or a unpowered basic Chem Station.

No one can tell me he or she can make a working Sniper or Rocket Launcher with a simple forge , anvil and a Tool Set.

so if you remove some of this Recipes you normally could not craft wihtout machines or other Tools and at same Time remove all this Magical Learning Recipe Skills and add back Schematics to learn Recipes people will have Reasons to go out and loot .

And yes Remove or really nerf the Traders currently its like some sort of big AllYouWant store in the Wastelands.Traders should only sell Food and some Resources and possible with a rare Chance some Tools but no Ammo no Guns no Armor.

Disagree with this, if you've been unlucky enough not to get a tool and die set, then you really need the ammo at the traders, the POI's do not have enough ammo in them to counter what you spend raiding them. Also if you're fully dependant by a high game stage on RNG to get a good gun, then you can end up in a situation where you just can't take a POI anymore to try looting for a good gun, so I think crafting them if you've specced into intellect high enough makes sense so you actually stand a chance when you enter a house.

 

[ghettochild2600]

That's an idea. They could also limit crafting to tier 5 to make us loot for tier 6. Or have a tier 7 that can only be looted. Or have tiered mods. Something that brings the joy and need of looting back to the game.

I really like this idea. Also removing crosshairs... What xml file do you change and what values?

 

[Hek Harris]

I really like this idea. Also removing crosshairs... What xml file do you change and what values?

Even if I agree, you quoted the wrong guy

That's an idea. They could also limit crafting to tier 5 to make us loot for tier 6. Or have a tier 7 that can only be looted. Or have tiered mods. Something that brings the joy and need of looting back to the game.

 

[Ghostlight]

I land a good accuracy of head shots, I never spam shoot (I'm very conservative with my ammo ) I try to sneak in quick easy 1-shot kills with a bow snipe or a sledge hammer if I can, I'll make spikes, frames, ect.
If you aren't in late gamestage and saying this, then I call you out on not knowing what you're talking about honestly, because I have to craft ammo to keep up, if you watched my horde night video I'm not a bad shot and I don't waste ammo.

So what am I doing wrong?

Or could it be I dungeon crawled my way through to get crossbow bolts, a pistol (15 9mm ammo ) and a hunting rifle, and perhaps a mod I already have even with 5/5 lucky looter?

Synopsis, you don't know what you're talking about, and loot isn't balanced to difficulty or gamestage progresses too fast for the players character to keep up.

You mention you are 1-shotting enemies with a bow. Therefore you are playing on a easier difficulty than many players. Therefore you are probably not seeing the issue the OP mentions.

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I was thinking this last night actually, I'm level 123, just finished day 105 horde

Whaaaat? I am level 110 and have just finished my day 28 horde. What the hell are you (not) doing?

 

[crazyduck]

Well I can see how adding more of the same loot that's already in game wouldn't solve anything.
I'm curious as to why you think adding new loot items wouldn't give an incentive. Perhaps this will be great new stuff that's not available at the trader. I've read Gazz (from TFP) call the things to come "legendary" loot.

For all we know they will have set items that you'll have to chase down and collect. It might suck too. Who knows. My point in my comment was, that things are not final. The loot criticism is valid and there has been acknowledgement about the loot from The Fun Pimps.

Problem i have with the current Game is , legendary loot so what does legendary mean? Some sort of Loot with same time limit buffs as we have with this Magazines in Vanilla? To be honest there are thing inside this game woudl work better for a game like Skyrim where you can explain stuff with Magic. you get a bonus for Intellect for 30 Minutes cause the nice Wizard from the Greybeards made some strange Magic stuff with you, but not you get a 30 Minutes Bonus to Intellect cause you read a Magazine and after 30 Minutes you are dumb again.

Adding more Loot is one thing but at same time if you allow People to go and buy the Stuff at Trader at same Time and allow them to craft it at Same time there is no reason in later Game to go and clean a POI to loot it. And to be honest with the Changes in Alpha 17 how the Game works i really dont think that the Trader will become a basic Trader offering only Food and some low Quality Items, and Recipes get more realistic so you cant craft everything cause the Game become more and more Easy Mode if it comes to survival so no one really need to think much about this Survival Part of the Game.

 

[crazyduck]

Disagree with this, if you've been unlucky enough not to get a tool and die set, then you really need the ammo at the traders, the POI's do not have enough ammo in them to counter what you spend raiding them. Also if you're fully dependant by a high game stage on RNG to get a good gun, then you can end up in a situation where you just can't take a POI anymore to try looting for a good gun, so I think crafting them if you've specced into intellect high enough makes sense so you actually stand a chance when you enter a house.

If you are unluck enough not to get a Tool and Die set you could trade with all the other Players on the Server or if you play singleplayer make a Option so Trader can be a AllYouWantStore or a Survival Store with only Basic Goods.

And if it comes to crafting and Guns, to be honest the current Crafting System it makes not really much difference if you have a Quality 3 oder Quality 6 gun same Base Damage . And if you want that guns can be craftet add more needed Tools and Workstations to the Game so it makes sense you can make this nice small Parts you need for a Pistol or a Sniper and to make this nice Barrel you need for your gun and not only a Forge a Anvil and a Tool and Die Set and thats it.

 

[icehot]

You mention you are 1-shotting enemies with a bow. Therefore you are playing on a easier difficulty than many players. Therefore you are probably not seeing the issue the OP mentions.
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Whaaaat? I am level 110 and have just finished my day 28 horde. What the hell are you (not) doing?

I'm just playing the game, i'm not speed levelling or anything.

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If you are unluck enough not to get a Tool and Die set you could trade with all the other Players on the Server or if you play singleplayer make a Option so Trader can be a AllYouWantStore or a Survival Store with only Basic Goods.And if it comes to crafting and Guns, to be honest the current Crafting System it makes not really much difference if you have a Quality 3 oder Quality 6 gun same Base Damage . And if you want that guns can be craftet add more needed Tools and Workstations to the Game so it makes sense you can make this nice small Parts you need for a Pistol or a Sniper and to make this nice Barrel you need for your gun and not only a Forge a Anvil and a Tool and Die Set and thats it.

I only play SP, and currently I keep the traders at default, except for one change, I've made it so if you have tiers 4 or 5 on better barter there's now a chance the secret stash will contain the tool and die set. So I eventually got one by say 103 or something - before that I was having to buy all my ammo, by going to every trader on the map every 3 days to buy up anything they have in terms of ammo.

 

[Bhaaltazar]

Well I can see how adding more of the same loot that's already in game wouldn't solve anything.
I'm curious as to why you think adding new loot items wouldn't give an incentive. Perhaps this will be great new stuff that's not available at the trader. I've read Gazz (from TFP) call the things to come "legendary" loot.

For all we know they will have set items that you'll have to chase down and collect. It might suck too. Who knows. My point in my comment was, that things are not final. The loot criticism is valid and there has been acknowledgement about the loot from The Fun Pimps.

Adding more of the same loot ( or better quality ) won't solve late game progression/satisfaction that will keep you playing to lvl 300.

Legendary loot would have to be some new sort of loot mechanic, that would have a lasting effect after you find it or collect all the parts of certain branch of it. For example maybe you will find special traps in there like flame throwers trap schematics, better concrete mix, or certain tools that allows you to build some specific things / or opens up end game events of some sorts that you can only do once you are skilled and equiped enough...

I think it should revolve around crafting it and collecting bits and pieces throughout the map either by questing or late game dungeon POI's ( you only get such loot from big POI's like shotgun or pharmaceutical POI... which have higher level zombies from the start so you cant rush it ). And a bit of randomness to it, so on one play through you would get different end qusting than before and so on...

 

[HungryZombie]

Problem i have with the current Game is , legendary loot so what does legendary mean? Some sort of Loot with same time limit buffs as we have with this Magazines in Vanilla? To be honest there are thing inside this game woudl work better for a game like Skyrim where you can explain stuff with Magic. you get a bonus for Intellect for 30 Minutes cause the nice Wizard from the Greybeards made some strange Magic stuff with you, but not you get a 30 Minutes Bonus to Intellect cause you read a Magazine and after 30 Minutes you are dumb again.
Adding more Loot is one thing but at same time if you allow People to go and buy the Stuff at Trader at same Time and allow them to craft it at Same time there is no reason in later Game to go and clean a POI to loot it. And to be honest with the Changes in Alpha 17 how the Game works i really dont think that the Trader will become a basic Trader offering only Food and some low Quality Items, and Recipes get more realistic so you cant craft everything cause the Game become more and more Easy Mode if it comes to survival so no one really need to think much about this Survival Part of the Game.

This seems more like a negative opinion about TFP's abilities than a critique of anything I wrote. None of us knows what's coming. You don't seem to trust the development team. Why are you bothering then?

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Adding more of the same loot ( or better quality ) won't solve late game progression/satisfaction that will keep you playing to lvl 300.
Legendary loot would have to be some new sort of loot mechanic, that would have a lasting effect after you find it or collect all the parts of certain branch of it. For example maybe you will find special traps in there like flame throwers trap schematics, better concrete mix, or certain tools that allows you to build some specific things / or opens up end game events of some sorts that you can only do once you are skilled and equiped enough...

I think it should revolve around crafting it and collecting bits and pieces throughout the map either by questing or late game dungeon POI's ( you only get such loot from big POI's like shotgun or pharmaceutical POI... which have higher level zombies from the start so you cant rush it ). And a bit of randomness to it, so on one play through you would get different end qusting than before and so on...

I have nothing to disagree with you here. Good ideas.

 

[crazyduck]

This seems more like a negative opinion about TFP's abilities than a critique of anything I wrote. None of us knows what's coming. You don't seem to trust the development team. Why are you bothering then?
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Its not that i dont trust the Abilities of the Development Team, its more that i really have Problems to trust the Roadmap if something like that exist. Reason i talked about Skyrim is that it looks for me the Team redo the Game again and again cause they played other Games and liked this or that of the different Games they Play and not cause they had something liket hat in Mind before.

And yes that has also something to do with Gamestages, LAte Game Progression, POI , Loot and Loot Quality.

Currently in Vanilla its Easy mode the entire Game also on High Difficulty Setting cause only giving Zombies more HP does not make it more Difficult to survive.

We startet the Server in Difficulty Insane with Loot Chance of 70% and Respawn of Loot every 20 Days. And hej great People found Guns and more Guns and even more Guns and Ammo and more Ammo , Booster Books in masses same for Mods for Tools and Guns.

So the only real Limitation was Player Level and to raise that Level they did not have to go and Loot and search inside the POI thy could only stand in front of the POI shoot into it and lure the Zombies Out of the POI kil them level up get more Recipes and crafte more stuff they wantet. Others startet to mine a little bit to get flooded in Resources (only coal was not much found) sold stuff to trader to buy other stuff cause Trader sells you most of the Ingame Items.

so tell me where is it Survival if you can go to the local Wasteland Trader and buy the Stuff you want or get tons of loot in every POI? To be honest its a Apocalyptic World there should be no working Gun in every POI and no fresh Food or high quality Tools and Items. Survivors woudl have used it to survive or sold it to get something else. That game with the current Loot Table and the Current Whack a Zombie Playstyle does not feel like Surival Game for me if Resources, Tools, Weapons and Food is everywhere around me in insane high amounts.

ok sure i modded most of it already but my Opinion stay same and you ask why its botherin me? cause i Like the Idea and the Game it was before the Devs decided they must dumb down everything to make it easy enough that every keysmash kid can play it without thinking a second about survival.

 

[RavenGT]

Snipped for space.

As always, be prepared for the endless hordes (see what I did there?) proclaiming this game is "tower defense!" and "needs to balance x with y". Unfortunately, it seems that the focus was never / will never be on a true survival game, but a quasi-tower defense game with random survival aspects thrown in. I'm not sure you can do both as good as each "side" would like so I'm unsure of the answer.

IMHO the best adaptation should be a survival-horror game with base-building. Except the building in 7DTD is light years ahead of the terrible mechanics seen in other games that attempt this using different game engines...

 

[Ghostlight]

Some irony here...

I see people saying often that looting is not fun due to the POIs being so full of Ferals / Cops / both. I can sympathize with that. However the point in the game when POI looting DOES become extremely fun is when you have sufficient firepower to take on the Ferals/Cops and enjoy it - which is around the same time where you NO LONGER NEED TO LOOT POIs. Pffft.

 

[JaxTeller718]

As always, be prepared for the endless hordes (see what I did there?) proclaiming this game is "tower defense!" and "needs to balance x with y". Unfortunately, it seems that the focus was never / will never be on a true survival game, but a quasi-tower defense game with random survival aspects thrown in. I'm not sure you can do both as good as each "side" would like so I'm unsure of the answer.
IMHO the best adaptation should be a survival-horror game with base-building. Except the building in 7DTD is light years ahead of the terrible mechanics seen in other games that attempt this using different game engines...

And that brings us back to the original issue. The game has no identity. It's trying to be ALL the things and coming up mediocre at it, as opposed to previous Alphas where they focused on its strengths as Survival Horror with a n amazing building system.

It's trying to be Falllout and thats a losing play.

 

[PoppaTot]

Some irony here...
I see people saying often that looting is not fun due to the POIs being so full of Ferals / Cops / both. I can sympathize with that. However the point in the game when POI looting DOES become extremely fun is when you have sufficient firepower to take on the Ferals/Cops and enjoy it - which is around the same time where you NO LONGER NEED TO LOOT POIs. Pffft.

This happened to me, was great to be able to just run in and shred anything that came at me. But then soon realized that there was no point to go in there in the first place lmao.

For example, I just spent night 133 blood moon using none of my bases. I used my motorcycle and trained the horde towards me, got off bike, killed 6-10 zombies, rinse/repeat. It was fun AF, however, those that say this Alpha is harder than A16.4 just haven't played far enough. It's easy to be OP in both of them tbh.

 

[RavenGT]

And that brings us back to the original issue. The game has no identity. It's trying to be ALL the things and coming up mediocre at it, as opposed to previous Alphas where they focused on its strengths as Survival Horror with a n amazing building system.
It's trying to be Falllout and thats a losing play.

Nailed it! Couldn't agree more. I love most of the new systems and most of the mechanics, but the game is no closer to having an identity than it was before. More survival horror, less cheesy filler.

 

[Randomdude]

Except the building in 7DTD is light years ahead of the terrible mechanics seen in other games that attempt this using different game engines...

Building IS 7DTD. The best building game in the market at the moment. Moments do pass though... and as a wise man once said: "You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow, this opportunity comes once in a lifetime...".

Cmon, tell me you're not singing it now...

 

[Jackelmyer]

As someone who prefers A17 over A16, I agree. I would like to see them add more desirable but non-essential items/recipes to the loot tables. For example item/vehicle/clothing skins, retractable stairs, reinforced garage doors, faster opening steel doors, unique deco items. There's a lot of scope there to add things that will keep the looting interesting.

That's an idea. They could also limit crafting to tier 5 to make us loot for tier 6. Or have a tier 7 that can only be looted. Or have tiered mods. Something that brings the joy and need of looting back to the game.

I personally like these two solutions best.

Highest Tiers only lootable.

Non-Essentials only lootable. Though the non-essential list is going to be a hot debate. Highest tier tools and weapons, motorcycle parts, and jeep parts are all that really come to mind for me. Maybe mutated seeds too but I think that's a highest tier thing as well.

 

[Jackelmyer]

As someone who prefers A17 over A16, I agree. I would like to see them add more desirable but non-essential items/recipes to the loot tables. For example item/vehicle/clothing skins, retractable stairs, reinforced garage doors, faster opening steel doors, unique deco items. There's a lot of scope there to add things that will keep the looting interesting.

That's an idea. They could also limit crafting to tier 5 to make us loot for tier 6. Or have a tier 7 that can only be looted. Or have tiered mods. Something that brings the joy and need of looting back to the game.

Nailed it! Couldn't agree more. I love most of the new systems and most of the mechanics, but the game is no closer to having an identity than it was before. More survival horror, less cheesy filler.

More builder/Tower defense for me.

I really hope A18 becomes the bandit and end game boss release. That way people have a way to wrap up their game play and they have an end game point to dial overall progression against. Personally I think that'd be the best approach they could take that would all TFP to tighten up identity and what gameplay should start looking like. I'm glad A17, or to me it seems, was much more of a framework overhaul and adding content. Some content, I think, was partly pushed forward to really test the framework overhaul.

If we get an end game goal at some point in the near future (roughly over the next year), I think these end game conversations will have something far more tangible to pit the "why do things this way?" questions against.

 

[HungryZombie]

As always, be prepared for the endless hordes (see what I did there?) proclaiming this game is "tower defense!" and "needs to balance x with y". Unfortunately, it seems that the focus was never / will never be on a true survival game, but a quasi-tower defense game with random survival aspects thrown in. I'm not sure you can do both as good as each "side" would like so I'm unsure of the answer.
IMHO the best adaptation should be a survival-horror game with base-building. Except the building in 7DTD is light years ahead of the terrible mechanics seen in other games that attempt this using different game engines...

I agree. I've said this before myself but MadMole pretty much poo-pooed it lol. I'm in agreement it's a perception issue.