PC Late game progression

Oliwhere

Oliwhere

Refugee
With the current exponential progression in attribute costs on top of an exponential progression in the XP cost per level it seems to me that the advance in the skill tree will come to a creeping halt well before the maximum level of 300:

A player at level 250 might eventualy want to improve a side skill from 4/5 to 5/5 at that point.

This probably means he will need to raise the attribute from 8 to 10 and then buy the actual perk - totaling to 4+5+1 = 10 level ups.

10 levels at this point equal to roughly 4 million XP. If I guestimate the average XP per zombie kill at 800 XP (mix of normal and high level zombies) this equates to roughly 5000 zombie kills.

My current character level 175 after ~100 hours of play time has 4800 kills - so i do not see this as a viable option to progress further.

All other XP sources being weaker means that they are even less viable. The only remaining option I see are the 'animal' quests (which have perk rewards), but these are rare and very much RNG dependant.

Possible workarounds I see are the following:

1. Lower experience_multiplier from 1.0149 to 1.01 or lower, making the XP/level viable up to 300

2. Decyaing attribute costs: Have the higher attribute costs decay as the player progresses in level as their main purpose seems to be tailored around early / mid game.

This would also add an interesting twist that you can head for high level perks at a high cost or decide to be patient at be rewarded with lower attribute costs.

In my game I edited the attribute costs to be all 1 at level 100 - seems to work faily well and I hope not to get stuck in the progression as I continue to play this character.

Would be interesting to hear what others think or actually have experienced at these high levels.

 
I completelly agree with this... currently at lvl 115 and going through big POI's like shamway factory or messiah... I ve been doint that POI whole in game day, since most of spawns inside are radiated Zeds, and I only leveled once ( since I was half way through previous level ).

And another downside to leveling all together is also loot at the end of POI's. As lvl 115 and Lucky Looter at 4 I would expect to get something cool at the end - those loot crates on the top are apart from Locked hardened chest are the same as in small POI's, but once opened I only got 5 9mm bullets and 2 pistols ( lvl 1 and 2 ) :( Other crates gave me little ammo ( far less that what I have used ) shamway actually gave me 31 empty jars :) ) .

But It would be nice if these new special containers would contain a skill book that gives you couple of skill points or something similar for higher level ( special high level mods, armor... something along those lines? ). Otherwise the game just halts, you don't really have any reason doing anything except, if you like to just go for the fun of killing things.

 
I completelly agree with this... currently at lvl 115 and going through big POI's like shamway factory or messiah... I ve been doint that POI whole in game day, since most of spawns inside are radiated Zeds, and I only leveled once ( since I was half way through previous level ).
And another downside to leveling all together is also loot at the end of POI's. As lvl 115 and Lucky Looter at 4 I would expect to get something cool at the end - those loot crates on the top are apart from Locked hardened chest are the same as in small POI's, but once opened I only got 5 9mm bullets and 2 pistols ( lvl 1 and 2 ) :( Other crates gave me little ammo ( far less that what I have used ) shamway actually gave me 31 empty jars :) ) .

But It would be nice if these new special containers would contain a skill book that gives you couple of skill points or something similar for higher level ( special high level mods, armor... something along those lines? ). Otherwise the game just halts, you don't really have any reason doing anything except, if you like to just go for the fun of killing things.
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That's another good suggestion, I'd also like some more incentive to actually go through the POIs - the loot quality progression is really lacking at the moment as well. Luck Looter 5/5 and aviator googles and I still find mostly 2/3 broken Q1 pistols, which I immediatly scrap like 90% of the content of the loot boxes. Adding something worthwhile like books or quests that give perks as rewards would defintely find my support. As is, the stuff I get from wrenching the whole POI empty is my main motivation to clear the POI.

 
YOu are so strong with arround lvl 120 that you dont really need much more perks.
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Agreed, thar's about the point where I start to invest in QOL Perks and have the mandatory perks is place.

However I also like to switch weapon types during the same play through: So when I feal the challege dropping I switch to a different melee or ranged weapon making the game more challenging again. At this point I need to invest in new/different perks and this is currently almost impossible the closer you get to the maximum level of 300.

 
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I agree. Late game, it feels like zombies are progressing faster than the player is. By the time you've ground out 10 levels for a small stat increase, your gamestage has progressed as well. From a survival standpoint, you're much better off just mining and crafting ammo while waiting for the blood moon horde to show up, instead of going out and exploring/clearing POIs.

In my last game, I regretted putting points into stealth. It becomes nearly useless since waking up multiple radiated zombies becomes inevitable, so by that time I wished I had more survivability. But getting fortitude and the associated perks up enough was so expensive that it didn't feel viable anymore. Most of my POI adventures were me running out of rooms, emptying clips into a gaggle of radiated wights flooding through a doorway, getting disappointed in the meager loot and returning to base to craft more ammo.

 
Would be interesting to hear what others think or actually have experienced at these high levels.
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I'm at level 170.

At that point, mining ore and looting are quite good sources of xp. I sorta renamed the laundrymat

to levelomatic.

 
Agreed, thar's about the point where I start to invest in QOL Perks and have the mandatory perks is place.
However I also like to switch weapon types during the same play through: So when I feal the challege dropping I switch to a different melee or ranged weapon making the game more challenging again. At this point I need to invest in new/different perks and this is currently almost impossible the closer you get to the maximum level of 300.
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The point of the system is you specialise into a "class" so switching weapon types isnt something you just do at will and still be great with it. If you feel its too easy don't put as many perks into one weapon. Then you wont have to switch as often or can switch more often because you'll have enough points to spread around a few weapon types.

 
I completelly agree with this... currently at lvl 115 and going through big POI's like shamway factory or messiah... I ve been doint that POI whole in game day, since most of spawns inside are radiated Zeds, and I only leveled once ( since I was half way through previous level ).
And another downside to leveling all together is also loot at the end of POI's. As lvl 115 and Lucky Looter at 4 I would expect to get something cool at the end - those loot crates on the top are apart from Locked hardened chest are the same as in small POI's, but once opened I only got 5 9mm bullets and 2 pistols ( lvl 1 and 2 ) :( Other crates gave me little ammo ( far less that what I have used ) shamway actually gave me 31 empty jars :) ) .

But It would be nice if these new special containers would contain a skill book that gives you couple of skill points or something similar for higher level ( special high level mods, armor... something along those lines? ). Otherwise the game just halts, you don't really have any reason doing anything except, if you like to just go for the fun of killing things.
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Bonus for Shamways 31 Jars! :)

 
I'm at level 170. At that point, mining ore and looting are quite good sources of xp. I sorta renamed the laundrymat

to levelomatic.
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I do these a lot as well currently augering a tunnel from Diersvile to the dessert picking up ore veins as I go.

Trading is also not bad at that level if you have a lot of extra iron and craft tools & weapons to sell to the trader. Looking at my traders inventory, I think I'm the main supplier of HQ tools and weapons ;)

Still I think these actvities will not yield enough XP in the level 200+ region - the 4 million XP of the example in my first post can probably not be achieved with a mix of other XP activities.

 
The point i guess is that it never was intended that a "Short time" player who play a game only 200 Hours reach lvl 300.

You can reach a decent level at arround 50 Hours and then it slows down so that people who play for much longer have still a progress.

Its a bit like "Elite Dungeons" a few MMO made to keep the pro gamer busy.

(dont want to deny people a lvl 300, want only to show the perspective of a Gamedesigner)

 
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The point of the system is you specialise into a "class" so switching weapon types isnt something you just do at will and still be great with it. If you feel its too easy don't put as many perks into one weapon. Then you wont have to switch as often or can switch more often because you'll have enough points to spread around a few weapon types.
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Well, the point is that I am already specialized in 1 melee and 1 ranged weapon, which I can always fall back to if I need. I like to play my characters as constantly learning & improving while keeping the game challenging for me. The switching of weapon types is just a means to achieve this.

Also the attributes make it so that I'm allready 'half good' at any weapon class - so it's just the other half of real specialization that I'm filling by taking the specific weapon perks.

 
The point i guess is that it never was intended that a "Short time" player who play a game only 200 Hours reach lvl 300.You can reach a decent level at arround 50 Hours and then it slows down so that people who play for much longer have still a progress.

Its a bit like "Elite Dungeons" a few MMO made to keep the pro gamer busy.

(dont want to deny people a lvl 300, want only to show the perspective of a Gamedesigner)
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It crossed my mind as well that this might be by design - though I never read about this being the intention of the higher level limit. It rather sounded like maxing out a character and getting all perks was achievable with enough time investment.

Could be that being a 260 on a server is intended to show that you have been playing there for months or years.

Maybe we can get one of TFP to comment on what the design goal for the player level is.

 
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Cool examples in this thread guys. Now that the new item overhaul is complete, hopefully the pimps will add and balance some more mid and late game gear.

In the worst case that they dont (highly doubtful) at least the mechanics are there for tr he community to add stuff in.

Edit: a few things off the top of my head:

1) Weapons/ammo specific for killing radiated zombies.

2) Materials or quest related items for performing late game activities. How cool would it be if you can convert a POI into something cool. Think "clear" quest type, but only startable with a special trigger. Once you start the quest and go to the exclaimatipn mark, the POI transforms into something unique.

@Prime I'm looking at you. :)

 
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I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that as you progress to around level 60, there are just far too many radiated zombies for my single player play through. At this point it is costing me at least one death per poi and more ammo than I find at the end of a dungeon.

So like a dog chasing its tail, I want to get to a higher level so I can craft iron tools and a cement mixer (steel is like a dream in the distance), but in doing so, my game stage is spawning in too many irradiated zombies for me to handle, and loot boxes at the end are just not worth it. It is a disheartening reality.

 
I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that as you progress to around level 60, there are just far too many radiated zombies for my single player play through. At this point it is costing me at least one death per poi and more ammo than I find at the end of a dungeon.
So like a dog chasing its tail, I want to get to a higher level so I can craft iron tools and a cement mixer (steel is like a dream in the distance), but in doing so, my game stage is spawning in too many irradiated zombies for me to handle, and loot boxes at the end are just not worth it. It is a disheartening reality.
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Harvest some boulders

Make tools, armor, weapons and ammo

Sell tools, armor and weapons

Buy ammo

And you will have in a very short time a nice stock of ammo and you will not really care about drops at all

 
The developers were actually of a mind to have the level cap be lower than the amount needed to get everything. They relented after listening to players who said, "Even if it takes a loooooooong to time to get everything we still want to be able to get everything and with it taking so long it will be the same as having a level cap for 90% of the player base who won't want to invest the time needed to get everything."

So that's what they did. If they decide to make a change to the current late game progression it is more likely to go back to a lower level cap than it is to make it easier to get everything even sooner. Of course, through modding you can change it to however you want.

 
Harvest some bouldersMake tools, armor, weapons and ammo

Sell tools, armor and weapons

Buy ammo

And you will have in a very short time a nice stock of ammo and you will not really care about drops at all
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Thanks for your courteous reply Royal. I do all of the things you suggest, and I still don't have enough ammo. I guess my disappointment is still there because, well, aren't the drops in a loot game what a loot game is all about? And if the zombies are going to ramp up in difficulty, the ammo drops and the loot available should surely be ramped up as well.

edit: I know it is a survival game, but it is also a loot game.

- - - Updated - - -

The developers were actually of a mind to have the level cap be lower than the amount needed to get everything. They relented after listening to players who said, "Even if it takes a loooooooong to time to get everything we still want to be able to get everything and with it taking so long it will be the same as having a level cap for 90% of the player base who won't want to invest the time needed to get everything."
So that's what they did. If they decide to make a change to the current late game progression it is more likely to go back to a lower level cap than it is to make it easier to get everything even sooner. Of course, through modding you can change it to however you want.
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Modding, yes there is always modding sigh.

- - - Updated - - -

of course, with regards to modding, if you play on a multiplayer server, which I often do, you have to play with their settings, so no modding most of the time. And a lot of people play solo in a multi player game.

 
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