PC Land Claim Block, 1 Active vs. Concrete Mixer/FOB/moving. Opinions?

FileMachete

Refugee
From the release notes;

"Land Claim Improvements

You can only have one active land claim block but the claim area is much larger.

Claim blocks are cheap to craft and repair. Placing another will instantly deactivate but not destroy your previous one.

The claim area prevents zombie respawn."

There seems to be a few scenarios where only allowing 1 Active LCB can be an issue;

1) First temp base in a POI. Small no-spawn area of bedroll likely means placing a LCB. Or placing bedroll elsewhere in world.

Later player decides to take over another POI for base. I don't _think_ there's any cool-down between Active & Not-Active; so if player had stayed at first POI several days, finds new POI, clears new, places LCB, then first POI is likely to be infested when they return to initial base.

Resulting in, -if- they know to do so, needing to pre-plan that they'll be moving. Assuming they don't want to risk losing chests, or choose not to clear the first POI again: Move everything out of first base, including any stations, prior to clearing new POI & placing LCB.

--I know there is a period of time between fully clearing a POI, leaving area, and z's respawning. I don't know if it would be long enough for a long distance, early-ish game move.

2) Simply desiring to have multiple bases built from POIs.

3) Player building their own base complications. Concrete Mixer is now required to craft Wet Concrete blocks. Meaning, I would guess, that a number of folks will wind up having one 'on site', and it being in a temporary location. Even assuming that placing a LCB after placing a Concrete Mixer(CM) would allow the CM to be picked up later, if the player is unfortunate enough to place the CM is a bad spot (in the way), they'll need to place a LCB in order to move it.

4) Forward Operating Bases (FOB), player built. Usually around mid-game I like to travel further afield to loot. I used to make small bases near the edge of a city. Not 'bm tough', but enough to defend against wandering hordes. I'd typically mine at night and also run a forge to continue making cement. Sometimes a Workbench &/or Chem Station.

--This is more about 'waste'. Sure, can just leave the stations when you move on.

--Will also either need to pre-design base and craft all the required Wet Concrete blocks, or bring a Concrete Mixer.

===

As I only play SP I don't know what potential MP issues this may have been aimed at addressing, or if MP had anything to do with it.

I've asked modders if there's an xml edit to increase number of actives; apparently there isn't. It would require an SDX/dll lvl mod to change.

What thoughts do you all have on this change?

Does it make sense? <-- would appreciate reasoning, I'm really not understanding it.

Would allowing multiple Active LCBs need additional restrictions?

Possibly a 'no closer than X to another Active LCB'?

 
As I only play SP I don't know what potential MP issues this may have been aimed at addressing, or if MP had anything to do with it.

I've asked modders if there's an xml edit to increase number of actives; apparently there isn't. It would require an SDX/dll lvl mod to change.

What thoughts do you all have on this change?

Does it make sense? <-- would appreciate reasoning, I'm really not understanding it.

Would allowing multiple Active LCBs need additional restrictions?

Possibly a 'no closer than X to another Active LCB'?
The one LCB rule is devastating for MP servers, PVE and PVP alike. Here's 6 quick reasons. I'm sure there's at least that many more if I thought about it for awhile.

1) Griefing/theft still exists in PVE, so everyone claims their creations to protect them.

2) People liked to create large/intricate/multiple structures. The ability to do this has been greatly reduced unless you just jack up the claim radius to 100+, which sort of defeats the stated purpose of having reduced it to 1.

3) Admins on multiplayer servers tended to be barred from engaging in PVP, and spent most of their time on the server moderating & playing essentially creative mode. They would create race tracks, arenas, instanced PVP zones, trader areas, ....endless ideas. Now that is no longer possible to protect these structures, I see it greatly damaging the ability for server owners to maintain a healthy moderation team.

4) FOB's were instrumental in establishing a mine, just like what you were saying (btw - zombies don't do less damage to claimed areas).

5) Claiming stores/POI's was a source of conflict that generated much needed competition/interaction on PVP servers.

6) FOB's to use for raiding/fighting each other were great for offense and defense for a lot of strategic purposes.

 
Very interesting Poojam, I had no idea the MP server mods did such things, which sound really fun.

The FOB bit was the one that got me thinking about this really. I've been playing Nav map and between the distances and the time it takes to clear the larger POIs, like the new Shotgun Messiah Factory, well... I really wanted to take over a couple POIs for FOBs, mainly to 'get out there' a bit earlier, and lvl 40 for concrete mixer.

Thanks for the insight! :)

 
The 1 claim block per person was talked about I think in A10 is when I first heard of it, but I didn't think TFP would actually go through with it as I was pretty sure the community backlashed that it was a terrible idea, and, well, it still is, please revert this and make another block to achieve what you want and leave land claims how they were in A16 and previous.

Also fix the bug that lets players see others claim blocks on the map too please, its very easy to do, you just press "M" and it shows up.

 
Just saw this from Madmole in another thread ( https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?101566-Some-A17-thoughts&p=914862&viewfull=1#post914862 );

<snip> ... I wanted to talk about why players can't build what they want to build. The single land claim issue is noted but not easily solved.
From above sounds like there's a technical issue.

Wonder if the modifier to block damage by other players is the issue? From what Poojam said it seems like it worked ok in A16...?

===

I play SP and I have never used or needed a LCB.
I'm SP only as well Junuxx. To me the two main benefits in SP are a larger "no spawn zone" & the ability to pick up stations like Workstations, Chem Stations, Mixers, etc.

MM suggested early on to take over POIs for bases in early game. To prevent the z's from spawing while you're away from your POI-base then you'll almost certainly need to place a LCB; the no-spawn area of the bedroll is only something like a 7 block radius? But I like to come home late, and -really- don't want to fight a horde just to get to my stuff :D

 
e's a technical issue.
MM suggested early on to take over POIs for bases in early game. To prevent the z's from spawing while you're away from your POI-base then you'll almost certainly need to place a LCB; the no-spawn area of the bedroll is only something like a 7 block radius? But I like to come home late, and -really- don't want to fight a horde just to get to my stuff :D
Hmm, I think the no spawn zone is bigger for bedrolls. I've left my bedroll in a POI house (one of the two story ones) before that I had setup as a FOB/starter, and I returned there every so-often (once every 2-4 in game days, sometimes sooner), never had anything spawn in there. I took my bedroll out and next day went back to sleepers in it.

 
Hmm, I think the no spawn zone is bigger for bedrolls. I've left my bedroll in a POI house (one of the two story ones) before that I had setup as a FOB/starter, and I returned there every so-often (once every 2-4 in game days, sometimes sooner), never had anything spawn in there. I took my bedroll out and next day went back to sleepers in it.
Certainly could be Jugg, can't find anything in the xmls but just checked the obvious ones; could be in there somewhere, heh. I haven't really checked since either I use the bedroll but am only there a night, or, since the 7 blk radius was in my head, I place a LCB for first poi base.

Was a bit suprised that the LCBs area isn't large enough to cover the Pass N Gas East of Diersville in Nav. They honestly don't seem bigger than they were in A16. But the price change, 6 Stone vs 100 Forged Iron, sure is nice :)

 
Certainly could be Jugg, can't find anything in the xmls but just checked the obvious ones; could be in there somewhere, heh. I haven't really checked since either I use the bedroll but am only there a night, or, since the 7 blk radius was in my head, I place a LCB for first poi base.
Was a bit suprised that the LCBs area isn't large enough to cover the Pass N Gas East of Diersville in Nav. They honestly don't seem bigger than they were in A16. But the price change, 6 Stone vs 100 Forged Iron, sure is nice :)
Interesting. For saftey, I increased the range of the lcbs in my sp games lol. It may be hardcoded, the sleeping bag range. I haven't honestly done a large build (or any POI larger than the crush-car survivor camp things) yet in 17, I am sorta curious how it would work out.

 
it is ridiculous for the MP servers. Folks like to build big (have TFP seen the big builds?) and there are so many big communities. The whole zombie spawning radius thing should've been tied to the sleeping bag not the LCB. LCB spam is controlled by the admins of the server so that arguement is moot.

 
THat plays to my belief that it's almost impossible to balance the game for single or small groups of cooperative players and large-scale pvp servers. Single LCB + sleeping bag allows solo/small groups to cover large areas, yet in pvp large-servers it hinders it. And tbh I don't see how anyone could stand raiding in A16, a base with 10-20 LCBs is infuriating to raid (mainly due to that damn noise lmao) and takes forever to get anywhere. I think that's why Rust did away with most of the survival aspects (and the zombies), it allowed them to tailor the game to more massive, pvp servers.

For solo players in SP, zombie spawning on the SP only would hinder them because they just have one. Least with LCB and the bag you can double the radius.

 
I play SP and I have never used or needed a LCB.
Not sure if this still works, but it worked with the older builds of a17. I found this out by accident.

Step 1: place land claim block.

Step 2: hit land claim block

Step 3: place new land claim block.

You now have a massive hp wall where the blocks have 7000 hp each, but dirt cheap.

 
Pizzalicious, later on in the thread I quoted MM from (link in my earlier post in this thread) he mentions LCBs again. I don't want to draw conclusions, but it seems it's not being viewed as trivial <my take anyway>.

Jugg, yeah :( I'm concerned about their trying to balance all the various play types with one set of 'rules' as well.

:) Senpai, heh. Yeah... like when your best friend has a really hot new girlfriend, best to pretend it ain't what it is :)

 
Not sure if this still works, but it worked with the older builds of a17. I found this out by accident.
Step 1: place land claim block.

Step 2: hit land claim block

Step 3: place new land claim block.

You now have a massive hp wall where the blocks have 7000 hp each, but dirt cheap.
No

LCB are really really Cheap, so yes its no issue to place many of them

But

As soon as you place a new LCB your old breaks down to 1 HP

 
I'll say this, the one LCB limit makes moving bases in mp a stressful activity. It makes building a new base even more stressful. This change really speaks to how out of touch the devs have become.

 
I don't mind the one LCB rule .....

.... so long as Server Admins can adjust this easily.

[Without going into the Modded Server category.]

..... that is all.

 
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Admins can set pve or pvp for the server so the lcb protects a players blocks, this has been a non issue for multiple alphas outside of a rando script kiddie coming on a server.

 
Think I understand why 1 LCB in PvP is really impactful. It's that 'enemy's' can mark out the single "cube" protected by the LCB, so they know exactly where the LCB is, and beeline to it. Right?

So before PvP's would/could scatter a few in a fairly small area, and where they all overlapped, that cube would effectively be protected by all the LCBs; forcing enemy's to take out multiple LCBs to get to the prize. As well as the LCBs working together to mask their individual locations. Sneaky :D

 
Think I understand why 1 LCB in PvP is really impactful. It's that 'enemy's' can mark out the single "cube" protected by the LCB, so they know exactly where the LCB is, and beeline to it. Right?
So before PvP's would/could scatter a few in a fairly small area, and where they all overlapped, that cube would effectively be protected by all the LCBs; forcing enemy's to take out multiple LCBs to get to the prize. As well as the LCBs working together to mask their individual locations. Sneaky :D
About right. Enemy is forced to start working on corner claims, cause they are the only ones, that can be marked. Giving you essential time to come back online and stop the enemy before he was able to get to your loot room.

My bases usually had 100+ claims in them. Just in case.

 
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