PC Just Get Rid Of Stamina All Together... <FLAME ON!>

[stupid]

I thought about getting more master chef to make use of the other stuff, but hell I don't need it lol.

Yep. Right now these chef perks just aren't worth it. It would be nice to see some kind of change which would make me want to buy them. If they don't want to make changes to stamina then at least give us recipes which keeps our stamina full for maybe five minutes at a time. *tips fedora*

 

[Jackelmyer]

Lol.
Not sure if this guy is sarcastic of serious.

Actually I'm dead serious.

As someone pointed to Subnautica as an example with great game play and zero stamina, it's been done. By others as well.

It allows for consequences and disempowerment of the character. If there is no stamina, why not go All Out all the time? Why not hold the shift key and run ALL the time? Why not hold the power attack button down whaling on a block, go get lunch, then come back? Stamina gives us a reason why not, and as a result, the decision between sprinting and walking is meaningful. By restricting what we can do, it gives us more choice.
The time that you spend waiting for your stamina to recharge can be used to do other things. Look around for zombies. Manage the inventory. Eat some food. Place some blocks. Plan on what you're going to do next. Does anyone seriously think that holding down the left click button constantly while keeping your crosshair trained on a block(mining without stamina) is more fun or engaging than doing the same thing but alternately holding and not holding it down(mining with stamina)?

Does a game really need to be constant action? I'd say not. This is a horror game. The periods of less action and less drama are important for giving context and emotional weight to other parts.

This... Is a great response and more along the lines of the discussion I was hoping for.

Don't... Know that I agree. Especially with Survival based games and also with any game that is Skill and Item progression oriented, you start disempowered. You do still have to earn your progression.

Why not hold shift and run all the time? Fair question. And I return... Why not indeed? So I sprint all the time. Another thing that has been in many many games. I really don't see the problem with it. Many games have implemented simpler things than stamina to negate the zipping around combat as well. Like you can't use a weapon unless you're stopped. Or, you're slowed when using a weapon, sometimes dramatically. Much simpler from a feature perspective and frankly I like those better than dealing with stamina ALL the time.

What to do with time spent waiting for stamina? I mean... really... The only thing that's really done at that point is "Oops, I forgot, do I have xyz in my inventory?". Or... "Yeah... what is around me? Any zombies?". That's still going to happen with or without stamina.

Mining without pause? I'd say that's a notable difference than mining with pause. Mining in all games is one of the most boring and brain dead activities. And ideally, it stays that way without some craaazy new ideas being thrown at mining to make mining a real game play experience. But if you're not going to turn something like mining into something enjoyable and a real game itself... Don't you want to just shut off your brain? Glance over at Youtube to see what's up? Do you really want to have to stay focused... focused... On the most boring thing in the game? That's... Just not fun IMO. And, if people want to talk immersion breaking, mining as a whole is immersion breaking. Having to pause for stamina management is immersion breaking. I still don't see the upside.

Without stamina, the game still isn't constant action. You still, at least currently, have mining. Crafting. Planning. Building. Traveling. etc?. None of that is exactly "action" oriented.

Generally speaking... I want to PLAY the game. Not play for a minute... and wait to play some more. Play for another minute... Then play some more...

*shrug* Just wondered what others thought. That's all.

 

[Jackelmyer]

Lol.
Not sure if this guy is sarcastic of serious.

It allows for consequences and disempowerment of the character. If there is no stamina, why not go All Out all the time? Why not hold the shift key and run ALL the time? Why not hold the power attack button down whaling on a block, go get lunch, then come back? Stamina gives us a reason why not, and as a result, the decision between sprinting and walking is meaningful. By restricting what we can do, it gives us more choice.
The time that you spend waiting for your stamina to recharge can be used to do other things. Look around for zombies. Manage the inventory. Eat some food. Place some blocks. Plan on what you're going to do next. Does anyone seriously think that holding down the left click button constantly while keeping your crosshair trained on a block(mining without stamina) is more fun or engaging than doing the same thing but alternately holding and not holding it down(mining with stamina)?

Does a game really need to be constant action? I'd say not. This is a horror game. The periods of less action and less drama are important for giving context and emotional weight to other parts.

Here's a thought...
...stamina like Mana. Only goes down when you use it for big things (jumping, power attack, running). Doesn't change when using it for little things (regular attack, walking/jogging).

Realistic? Nope. Better gameplay? You betcha!

I'm so over realistic game play lol. If I wanted realism, I'd paint my walls and watch them dry... Wooo boy!

I do like the train of thought. I'm not the biggest fan of looting things like grass and cotton where it has the same stamina impacts as chopping at a tree... >.> So some more consideration into "what" is drawing stamina would be a great start. I do miss being able to run more from the get go. Then basically being able to run forever with stamina gains as skill increased.

- - - Updated - - -

Lol.
Not sure if this guy is sarcastic of serious.

It allows for consequences and disempowerment of the character. If there is no stamina, why not go All Out all the time? Why not hold the shift key and run ALL the time? Why not hold the power attack button down whaling on a block, go get lunch, then come back? Stamina gives us a reason why not, and as a result, the decision between sprinting and walking is meaningful. By restricting what we can do, it gives us more choice.
The time that you spend waiting for your stamina to recharge can be used to do other things. Look around for zombies. Manage the inventory. Eat some food. Place some blocks. Plan on what you're going to do next. Does anyone seriously think that holding down the left click button constantly while keeping your crosshair trained on a block(mining without stamina) is more fun or engaging than doing the same thing but alternately holding and not holding it down(mining with stamina)?

Does a game really need to be constant action? I'd say not. This is a horror game. The periods of less action and less drama are important for giving context and emotional weight to other parts.

noone ever complained about stamina before MM played for 2 hours and just cut down the thing by 25%....if we just get back what we had before or close to that most ppl would be happy.

I agree before was better. And to TFP's credit as Roland stated, and as TFP announced I think before they went on holiday, Stamina complaints were definitely heard loud and clear. So hoping we get a little closer to what we had before.

 

[Jackelmyer]

I think overall, stamina is a horrible feature in any game. Progress and action can be slowed in a variety of ways. And with all the work that's been put into Stamina management, from planning, development, testing, calculations of various skills impact on it's usage and consumption, I think I'd rather have a zombie that was created with the effect to slow a player periodically. Or a zombie that could leap 10 blocks towards me with a deviation of 2 blocks or something. Or the Behemoth. lol.

Stamina development in by itself I wouldn't imagine is the biggest undertaking. Stamina balancing in development... Man... I think we could have had a lot of other much cooler stuff. *shrugs*

All things considered though, stamina isn't likely going away. So I'd personally be extremely happy with stamina being limited to Power Attacks, Sprinting, and Jumping. And just yank it out of all the rest.

 

[stupid]

Why not hold shift and run all the time? Fair question. And I return... Why not indeed?

100% agree. I'll probably be criticized for bringing up Minecraft, but as the second best selling game in the world, obviously they got a few things right when it comes to gameplay. The more running, mining, and fighting you did, the more food you needed to consume and the more tools you needed to build.

Waiting every 10 seconds during mining is not good gameplay. I should be able to be as active as I want, provided I can support that activity with iron or steel for repairs, as well as food, water, and ammo for anything I attract with the noise I make. If I made all of those things, I should be able to enjoy a day of uninterrupted, mindless mining. I feel like a portion of the community just mines the surface boulders and would prefer digging not be a thing.

 

[Deoxissin]

Stamina is fine, it adds a good eminent to the game. It's frustrating when you're lower level, but that's the point. If that's what you're concerned with improving, spend the points and get it there. Sounds like most of you are strong attacking, especially while mining, and complaining about the effects. It's not there as a constant, it's there as a situational and is often nice when fighting by comparison to previous alphas. If you don't want to manage a "realistic" nature to things. . . Why play a survival game. Go play need for speed and female dog about having to drive a car all the time. "Why don't I have unlimited nitrous?"

 

[VenomsLust]

I'm curious what your guys are doing (not doing?) to drain your stamina like that while mining...

I spend half my nights in my mine chipping away, non-stop, with zero stamina issues (except in the early, early game).

Did you not spend in the appropriate perks? (sexy rex, slow metabolism, ...)

Are you power-attacking? (don't bother with that)

 

[WolfyBlah]

Intresting thread.

My thourghts: but if they remove stamina how else will TFP punish those dirty crafter/builder players?

Id be in favour of staminas removal in favour of gameplay, realism can die in a corner when it comes to games bieng fun.

Some of the games mentioned

-project zomboid - handels fatigue very well, the more you do the more tierd you get, your perception gets lessened and you can carry less weight and do less damage. We couldnt see a system in 7days to die his good because we have no abilty to sit/rest, and no abilty to sleep and no abilty to speed up time to make those activities not tedious.

-state of decay - um? Not sure if i view the stamina bar in SoD as that great, the combat was fun in and of itself, not sure that he stamina management was that fun (the execution where you run on a zombies back and goomba stomp thier head into the floor anyone?). In SoD you have multiple characters to play while your other charcter rests, again not really ideal for 7days where we have 1 character and no way to rest.

Stamina can add a lot to the game if the developers let it. Id like to see what we have no be replaced with stamina that works much the same as now and a fatigue stat that does basically what food does right now: affects your max stamina, rest (eat) to refill it.

So you can still run in PZ when exhausted, but you will run slower and run out of breath (i guess this is what 'stamina' in 7d2d is closest to) very quickly.

Id also advice taking a look at how PZ handles food/bieng hungry and what that buff/debuff does for your character: hungry = tire quicker, carry less do less damage.

Well fed = tire slower, carry more and do more damage.

All in all id like to see either its removal in favour of fun gameplay or much more depth adding to the system beyond: BLUE BAR EMPTY, CANT SWING PICKAXE.

 

[Hek Harris]

Stamina is fine, it adds a good eminent to the game. It's frustrating when you're lower level, but that's the point. If that's what you're concerned with improving, spend the points and get it there. Sounds like most of you are strong attacking, especially while mining, and complaining about the effects. It's not there as a constant, it's there as a situational and is often nice when fighting by comparison to previous alphas. If you don't want to manage a "realistic" nature to things. . . Why play a survival game. Go play need for speed and female dog about having to drive a car all the time. "Why don't I have unlimited nitrous?"

I'm curious what your guys are doing (not doing?) to drain your stamina like that while mining...I spend half my nights in my mine chipping away, non-stop, with zero stamina issues (except in the early, early game).

Don't tell people it's a survival game or that they can't dig easily the first hour, it is an offense to their indisputable way of playing.

Just kidding. Don't try to hit me with your pickaxe, it hurts.

The thing I learned after so many hours in 7 Days to Die and having met a lot of players is that there is two very distinct categories : those who play "survival" and regularly relaunch a new game to experience again the suffering of a new beginning and the pleasure of progression, and those who play to build huge bases and constructions and maximise their avatar until the end.

But what I don't understand is that these rarely restart a game (except when they are forced to after a new release) and play for months on the same map with the same character. And yet, they are those who are the most virulent against the slowness of the early hours.

I think that if TFP gave them the opportunity to start their favorite activity very early (thanks to about 20 skill points offered from the beginning, for example), they would be much less revolted by the new progression system.

Id also advice taking a look at how PZ handles food/bieng hungry and what that buff/debuff does for your character: hungry = tire quicker, carry less do less damage.

Well fed = tire slower, carry more and do more damage.

It looks nice, indeed.

 

[Kage848]

Stamina is a real female dog for the first few days. I just hit day 7 and it's not really an issue anymore. I can mine almost non stop with iron tools. I put points into sexrex and it's fine.

The part where stamina is scary is combat. I use a red sledge hammer I named a Blood Hammer, Bringer of the Final Sleep. So you can imagine I get into stamina issues a lot, as I should. Stamina for mining is a pain for a while but its needed for combat.

Off topic, I think we should be able to name our weapons lol.

 

[WolfyBlah]

Don't tell people it's a survival game or that they can't dig easily the first hour, it is an offense to their indisputable way of playing.Just kidding. Don't try to hit me with your pickaxe, it hurts.

The thing I learned after so many hours in 7 Days to Die and having met a lot of players is that there is two very distinct categories : those who play "survival" and regularly relaunch a new game to experience again the suffering of a new beginning and the pleasure of progression, and those who play to build huge bases and constructions and maximise their avatar until the end.

But what I don't understand is that these rarely restart a game (except when they are forced to after a new release) and play for months on the same map with the same character. And yet, they are those who are the most virulent against the slowness of the early hours.

I think that if TFP gave them the opportunity to start their favorite activity very early (thanks to about 20 skill points offered from the beginning, for example), they would be much less revolted by the new progression system.

It looks nice, indeed.

The reason they are so against the early game bieng slow is fairly simple: unlike the other group who constantly restarts because they have everything... they have experianaced the leveling grind in FULL. Like you said they have fully maxed out thier toon, id say feedback from people with the paitence to actualy fully experiance the game (the developers dont have time to) should be given serious weight.

Those people dont restart often because a 200 hour level grind is even less fun the 2nd time around.

Theres that and some of us just dont enjoy using the early game tools because they are just the exact same as the late game ones with a massive nerf sticker on the side... its not challanging beyond challanging how much tedium you can put up with.

Like someone brought up: few people actually saw endgame in a16, they got bored because they had everything long before thier gamestage approached even half maxed.

Also NO. Peoples displeasure with the perk system is 1000x deeper than not having enough starting points, its a completely diffrent (and much dumbed down) system compared to the previous version.

 

[Saera]

I don't mind stamina, but not as it currently is. Drains wayyyy to fast for any reason!

I am happy to hear it is being looked at for the next version.

 

[Katitof]

If there only existed abundant, easy to farm drinks that would increase your stamina regeneration for 8 minutes per dring without any kind of downside.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

If there only existed abundant, easy to farm drinks that would increase your stamina regeneration for 8 minutes per dring without any kind of downside.

Coffe has been nerfed (and buffed)

Looks like MM nerfed it by higher price and lower availability (1/10 Vending machines have coffe)

But Gazz buffed it from 2 minutes to 3

Alone for changing that (first part) this way after we asked for a better stamina system deserves a negative review, but i still hope it was not on purpose

(Hopefully all understand what EA means, so read harsh feedback like this in that context. There is no real bad mood included. Only the percived pain is really there)

 

[ghettochild2600]

I really don't mind having stamina too much and having to manage it. What I would like to see changed though is a perk to either regen stamina quicker while resting or less drain from actions and weather. Also both health and stamina to replenish completely when you level up would be nice.

 

[dregonazure]

They’ve already tweaked stamina. You start the game with 150% fullness and your max stamina doesn’t start to drop until you get somewhere below 100%. The exact amount is still in flux but it has significantly changed the early game to be much less of a waiting for stamina to recharge game. There are still those moments but they are a lot fewer.
Some will call that making the early game easier and others will call it making it less tedious. Whatever your perspective, it does make eating a little less of a pressing issue on day one and two although you can get yourself in trouble if you neglect it. It also lessens the feeling that spending points in stamina related perks is mandatory.

Edit: I’m referring here to b241 which will be part of 17.1. Sorry for any confusion.

is there a list anywhere of whats currently planned for 17.1? i keep seeing some information for it scattered about in different threads

 

[Jackelmyer]

I'm curious what your guys are doing (not doing?) to drain your stamina like that while mining...I spend half my nights in my mine chipping away, non-stop, with zero stamina issues (except in the early, early game).

Did you not spend in the appropriate perks? (sexy rex, slow metabolism, ...)

Are you power-attacking? (don't bother with that)

I think one of the challenges is "Spending on appropriate perks". In days of old, you hit the ground running. Now, you hit the ground drunk and sluggish. And if you study your skill options for a bit, which, frankly I don't feel like I have the time in my first 5 days or so. I'm to busy hustling around to find a decent base location and gathering resource for my first horde night.

To be fair, I'm probably not playing in the most optimal way. *shrug* But also to be fair, most probably aren't playing in the most optimal way. People have to run the learning curve. People sometimes just forget steps. Etc.

If getting through 7 Days to Stamina is the new name of the game, and these specific skills are highly HIGHLY desirable (i.e. 10 out of 10 highly optimal playing players get these skills) then they probably should be added to the initial starter quest to give people a clue from the get go.

I'd probably be fine with the stamina even as is, provided it was introduced into the introduction quest line.

If say quest 3-4 of the starting quest line was "Get some grit!" and asked you to spend a skill point on Slow Metabolism, where point #1 you actually feel a big boost to Stamina usage and the sluggishness of the game dropped notably. Later ranks are more minor but still beneficial. So here you move around a bit. Feel like crap, but immediately lose at least the sluggishness of the game and are boosted straight up. Gives you an idea where to spend later too.

Then the quest right before the Trader is something like "Let's get move'n!" and forces a point into Sexy TRex. Again giving a big boost and eliminating the sluggish feel while leaving room to get a bit of an OP feel later on.

This... I could probably get behind much more. We'd all have it done before half of day 1 was closed and you'd get some direction on how to get rid of the horrid feeling of starting the current A17 sluggishness.

 

[dregonazure]

It allows for consequences and disempowerment of the character. If there is no stamina, why not go All Out all the time? Why not hold the shift key and run ALL the time? Why not hold the power attack button down whaling on a block, go get lunch, then come back? Stamina gives us a reason why not, and as a result, the decision between sprinting and walking is meaningful. By restricting what we can do, it gives us more choice.
The time that you spend waiting for your stamina to recharge can be used to do other things. Look around for zombies. Manage the inventory. Eat some food. Place some blocks. Plan on what you're going to do next. Does anyone seriously think that holding down the left click button constantly while keeping your crosshair trained on a block(mining without stamina) is more fun or engaging than doing the same thing but alternately holding and not holding it down(mining with stamina)?

Does a game really need to be constant action? I'd say not. This is a horror game. The periods of less action and less drama are important for giving context and emotional weight to other parts.

whats wrong with being able to run all the time?? couldn't it simply be louder and attract more zombies? same with mining, couldn't you make it so it either attracts zombies to you or at the least makes it harder for your to hear a zombie sneaking up on you? instead of gameplay that forces you to do nothing, id rather gameplay that asks you to make choices and deal with those conseqences

 

[dregonazure]

Here's a thought...
...stamina like Mana. Only goes down when you use it for big things (jumping, power attack, running). Doesn't change when using it for little things (regular attack, walking/jogging).

Realistic? Nope. Better gameplay? You betcha!

id love that kind of system, in conan exiles you can mine all day and never get tired, though it can freeze your stamina regen and if you mine too much and get encumbered, your sprint and attacks then use up massive amounts of stamina

 

[Reth]

I'm curious what your guys are doing (not doing?) to drain your stamina like that while mining...I spend half my nights in my mine chipping away, non-stop, with zero stamina issues (except in the early, early game).

[...]

Are you power-attacking? (don't bother with that)

I spent most of the night in my mine chipping away non-stop with zero stamina issues, wondering why they added a power attack to mining tools if it makes no sense whatsoever to use said attack under any circumstances.