PC Joel, TFP, we love ya but your PvP is showing..

R

RyanX

New member
After watching some of the videos about the new book sets and hearing Joel talk about things like "this book makes motion sensors delay for 3 seconds" and "for the guys doing PvP" it has become painfully apparent that Joel and TFP haven't the slightest clue about PvP. It's like telling the PvP guys "let them eat cake". Here is what PvP is really like,

- you get your base raided by glitchers who clip through the ground to see your base and you lose everything

- players use exploits to avoid consuming things like first aid kits, food, and any other consumable so the survival aspect is basically nonexistent for cheaters

- it's pointless to build a base unless you are a large crew

- larger groups give new players joining their group on the server an auger so while I bust my a$s getting to level 50, they join and max level in a single day

So why play PvP you say? Because it's the best way to play imho. PvE is so laughably easy to any decent PvP player. PvP threats are way more dangerous.

So these little perk books? Spare us. I would love TFP to have just ONE single meaningful PvP discussion with the PvP community. They are so far off base and out of touch I'd rather them not waste their time and ours with little meaningless features that they think might be helpful to PvP until they get a grasp of what is REALLY happening in PvP. I'd be happy to take them through a couple servers and show them some of the hacks and exploits that go on. I don't even know how to do most of them but I hear them talked about nonstop.

This game has a HUGE PvP potential and is original enough that there's nothing out there that replicates it yet...a persistent, buildable world that doesn't look like minecraft.

It's like there are really no features that can be added to improve PvP until the base game is fixed. Less adding features and more fixing the ones you already have would be great, because adding more features just makes the list of what needs fixed longer.

Oh, and before you say "post in the bugs thread"...the ones I know how to replicate already have. And I think the PvP community needs to step up and post all the other hacks and exploits so they can be fixed. The problem is that nobody wants to post them because they want to keep using them and don't want to reveal to others how to do them. On top of that, it will just reveal the methods which folks realize that TFP may never fix and they'll be used forever.

 
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Why does there even have to be any PvP? I'm kinda irked that whenever there's a big survival game, there has to be PvP. Can't we try to survive the endless hordes without trying to kill each other?

 
So...let me understand what your complaint is. There are numerous exploits in PVP but nobody will state them as bugs because they will be known and exploited more because they're not fixed? Um...That seems like a shoot one's own foot scenario. Seriously, why not report the bugs? What is the point of your rant if you won't do anything about it when you, yourself, clearly identified the resolution in that they just need to be reported so they can be fixed???

Mind you, bumping up PVP bug fixes may not be their current priority because they are still working on core level fixes at this point. That shouldn't stop you from reporting the bugs though. It is not a completed product and we should not expect it to be.

 
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Pvp sucks imo. So im glad TFP are still focussing on coop/sp.

I wish for your grievances to be solved, but AFTER the coop/sp game is done ;)

Cheers

 
You mean you can play this game with other real people??

Why the hell would anyone want to do that?!

Next, someone's going to tell me that Bethesda screwed up and made a multiplayer game...

Bethesda's way too smart for that!

-Morloc

 
Forget about books and stop adding in features that make the SP and MP Cooperative ways of playing the game better?

No thank you.

There are literally hundreds of games where PvP is the main focus and SP is the token afterthought, and truly cooperative gameplay is nonexistent. We have this one game where the roles are reversed and PvP players have to chew on the leftovers. Well, I'm not inclined to feel much sympathy about that. 7 Days to Die is a single player and multiplayer cooperative game that can also be played PvP and not the other way around.

Could've The Fun Pimps followed the money and just gone full on PvP? Sure, but they didn't and don't plan to. They have carved out a great niche for themselves and are happy with the success they have and will at some point look at what can be done for PvP-- as long as (and this is important) it doesn't conflict or harm the balance of the SP and cooperative gameplay.

Now, you might say that fixing the clipping and other PvP issues wouldn't harm SP or cooperative gameplay at all. It would help those modes of play also. Thing is, they are irrelevant. Why would I ever be tempted to clip into the terrain and look around underground in SP? Spending time fixing every conceivable way to clip into the terrain would take time which you even admitted by saying "Stop it with the books and fix our issues". You know that it is a choice of how to spend time and resources and since taking time to fix things that don't have any effect on the main game modes of play would harm those modes by taking away dev time to not add new content-- the fixes you want will just have to wait.

I know your frustration, man. I feel it with almost every other game on the market that has a robust PvP experience and a ♥♥♥♥ty SP campaign that was obviously tacked on for the smaller market who doesn't PvP.

Role reversal can be a female dog when it happens.

 
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The Fun Pimps have always been very vocal and upfront about PVP never having been the priority. We can hope that towards the end of development, possibly a future update focused on PVP after the game goes gold, this is about all us PVP players can hope for. :)

I for one am extremely grateful they added a PVP mode in the game.

 
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Just a reminder, the PvP population of this title is only 3-5% of the playerbase.

You guys might be given some consideration after the core game is done. The core game is designed for SP or MP Co-Op.

As ZombieSurvivor stated, this isn't likely to happen until after the game goes Gold. It's also likely to be minimal since balancing for PvP almost always screws over the PvE mechanics. Developers aren't likely to screw up the game for 97% of the player base so they can make 3% happy.

 
Forget about books and stop adding in features that make the SP and MP Cooperative ways of playing the game better?
No thank you.

There are literally hundreds of games where PvP is the main focus and SP is the token afterthought, and truly cooperative gameplay is nonexistent. We have this one game where the roles are reversed and PvP players have to chew on the leftovers. Well, I'm not inclined to feel much sympathy about that. 7 Days to Die is a single player and multiplayer cooperative game that can also be played PvP and not the other way around.

Could've The Fun Pimps followed the money and just gone full on PvP? Sure, but they didn't and don't plan to. They have carved out a great niche for themselves and are happy with the success they have and will at some point look at what can be done for PvP-- as long as (and this is important) it doesn't conflict or harm the balance of the SP and cooperative gameplay.

Now, you might say that fixing the clipping and other PvP issues wouldn't harm SP or cooperative gameplay at all. It would help those modes of play also. Thing is, they are irrelevant. Why would I ever be tempted to clip into the terrain and look around underground in SP? Spending time fixing every conceivable way to clip into the terrain would take time which you even admitted by saying "Stop it with the books and fix our issues". You know that it is a choice of how to spend time and resources and since taking time to fix things that don't have any effect on the main game modes of play would harm those modes by taking away dev time to not add new content-- the fixes you want will just have to wait.

I know your frustration, man. I feel it with almost every other game on the market that has a robust PvP experience and a ♥♥♥♥ty SP campaign that was obviously tacked on for the smaller market who doesn't PvP.

Role reversal can be a female dog when it happens.
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Seriously Roland...did you even read my post or did you just skim it? I never once said that he shouldn't add the books for SP and MP...I just said that the PvP books were a waste of time since they are meaningless. Did you want him working on meaningless books? By all means make your books...

And to the guy who said I should post bugs...did you also not read my post? I said that I had posted those that I know.

So basically all I got in response were replies that say "do stuff you already did" and "pvp sux and I didn't read your post."

And Joel clearly has PvP in mind because he has made features (albeit pontless) specifically for PvP in A18.

 
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See and where you have it wrong is that you think there ARE books designed for PvP.

There are no books for PvP. They are going to be adding turrets to POI's in the near future for quests and so even the book that gives a perk vs turrets is not even about PvP its about SP and Cooperative play and doing quests. When Madmole mentioned that PvPers can benefit from that book when going against someone else's base that is defended by turrets, THAT was the afterthought. You are 100% correct that TFP don't seem to have PvP in the front of their consciousness when designing content.

I'm telling you that the game is designed for SP and Co-op first and foremost and due to that, PvP will continue to languish in development hell into the future. The books you dub as meaningless because they are sort of lame for PvP compared to the much larger problems that exist-- those types of things WILL keep getting made since they do mean something for the main play modes.

I read but I don't agree with your premise or your evaluation of the usefulness of content that is going into the game before the fixes you want are done.

 
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you get your base raided by glitchers who clip through the ground to see your base and you lose everything - players use exploits to avoid consuming things like first aid kits, food, and any other consumable so the survival aspect is basically nonexistent for cheaters

- it's pointless to build a base unless you are a large crew

- larger groups give new players joining their group on the server an auger so while I bust my a$s getting to level 50, they join and max level in a single day
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Dude I play solo on PVP servers 90% of the time.

I've been doing this 4 or 5+ years. No one and I mean no one has ever, and I mean ever has raided my base. Many have tried all have failed.

As far as your concern for players using augers to level up. I get it as It used to bother me a little but you have no power over that and this form of gaming on PVP servers exists on basically every game. Get used to it my friend.

For the players that exploit bugs/glitches to get an advantage over others....REPORT the bugs.

I personally report any bugs that can be exploited on PVP servers. guess what? All my reports were delt with and those bugs/glitches got fixed.

As far as the clipping bug, that will never get fixed. I have given much thought on it and dug in to the game machanics that make that bug possible....I cannot think of a single way that bug can be fixed. I've accepted that and never report that as a bug as the fun pimps are fully aware of it. nothing can be done far as i know.

As I said, I play solo on PVP servers and I can build huge, huge bases so your claim its impossible...lol

I have basically poked holes in all your points.

Practice makes perfect, improve your skills for PVP or do not play on it.

And what friggin books are you talking about that is for PVP?????

If you catch cheaters, report them to your servers admin. If they do nothing, find a server that actually has good leadership and active admins.

*shakes head and walks away*

EDIT: Now I was a little aggressive in my response so I would like to offer you something.

When A18 drops I'll be more than happy to take you under my wing for a few months and teach you all I know regarding how to survive playing solo on a PVP server. The only restriction I have is I never build bases underground. I will teach you how to but the majority of the time it'll be above ground.

Also, playing with me there will be no cheating, exploiting, or doing anything that give us an unfair advantage over others. Personally I hate cheaters and I love a challenge so I am very passionate about playing legit.

If you would like to take me up on my offer shoot me a PM with your steam contact details and I'll add you.

Take care.

P.S. should you take me up on my offer you must be ok with being recorded in game including audio from your mic and the vid uploaded to youtube. I cannot adjust my plans for youtube in order to teach you so thats why i say that.

 
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Seriously Roland...did you even read my post or did you just skim it? I never once said that he shouldn't add the books for SP and MP...
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Except you kinda did.

Less adding features and more fixing the ones you already have would be great, because adding more features just makes the list of what needs fixed longer.
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As far as the clipping bug, that will never get fixed. I have given much thought on it and dug in to the game machanics that make that bug possible....I cannot think of a single way that bug can be fixed.
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There is one way actually. Just make each block be drawn individually on all 6 sides. When you're "under-mesh" all you will see is blocks in your face.

The caveats.

1. Ground meshes will look like ass.

2. It will require a PC much stronger that what is currently available.

 
There is one way actually. Just make each block be drawn individually on all 6 sides. When you're "under-mesh" all you will see is blocks in your face.
The caveats.

1. Ground meshes will look like ass.

2. It will require a PC much stronger that what is currently available.
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Yes I have thought about this already and for the reasons you stated I never pitched this idea to TFP.

If I ever think of a way I'll pitch it. I've been thinking about this for, maybe 2 years and I've kinda given up on finding a solution that is possible at this time. :)

EDIT: I have one idea that still floats around in my head, I actually forgot about it until this very moment lol.

I'll write it down and talk with a person at the fun pimps and see what his opinion on it is. I do not know coding and all that so not sure if its possible I'll have to wait and see.

Thanks for pointing out that method, had you not I might never have remember this idea thats been floating around in my head for past few months. When I forget something I tend to not remember until something triggers that memory lol. thanks! =)

 
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Yes I have thought about this already and for the reasons you stated I never pitched this idea to TFP.If I ever think of a way I'll pitch it. I've been thinking about this for, maybe 2 years and I've kinda given up on finding a solution that is possible at this time. :)
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Yeah, same here. I think the fixed FoV is the closest reasonable solution, but it doesn't really work that well either.

 
Yeah, same here. I think the fixed FoV is the closest reasonable solution, but it doesn't really work that well either.
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yeah that can work but the FOV would need to be extremely limited. I did a few tests with the limiting FOV and it works but, who wants to play a game with such a small FOV just to solve the clipping bug. lol

I'm sure TFP have already considered it but just in case they never did. I never pitched the the idea and my test results as I do not want FOV limited.

 
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yeah that can work but the FOV would need to be extremely limited. I did a few tests with the limiting FOV and it works but, who wants to play a game with such a small FOV just to solve the clipping bug. lol
I'm sure TFP have already considered it but just in case they never did. I never pitched the the idea and my test results as I do not want FOV limited.
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I remember FOV being talked about when the clipping was brought up a couple years ago. I think it was determined to be impractical, like you mention

 
If you're seeing a block from a side that you're not supposed to be, it's rendered transparent to you. Could the visuals be coded such that if you're ever seeing any of those transparent values, then your vision immediately fades to darkness until you back away?

-Morloc

 
EDIT: Now I was a little aggressive in my response so I would like to offer you something.

When A18 drops I'll be more than happy to take you under my wing for a few months and teach you all I know regarding how to survive playing solo on a PVP server.
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This flies in the face of all that is PvP and embraces all that is cooperative. I bet he takes a hard pass....lol

(plus, it came across as so incredibly condescending that it actually caused condensation to form on my empty cup sitting next to me when I read it :) )

 
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