PC It's all gone wrong, terribly wrong.

hotpoon said:
QUESTS
Sounded fun in theory, but quests have ruined the game for me. Fully exploring a town is way more fun for me, but knowing I'm getting left behind while everyone else no-lifes the quests bothers me. It's the meta for multiplayer now.
 
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This is normal in multiplayers that people doing "meta" mostly . I remember when my friend was fishing in terraria a lot because swordfish was rly good

hotpoon said:
"SMART" & "GIMMICK" ZOMBIES
I like the gimmick zombies, but don't like the AI.
For me the issue is the way zombies know the hit points of every block in the game and path to you via the easiest route. I'd be ok with one specific gimmick zombie (e.g. the one with the hardhat) to be able to have structural knowledge, but I expect the rest to rush at me via line of sight only. I also expect only the spider zombie (and maybe the cheerleader and skateboarder) to be able to jump far.  Currently they are all super jumpers which doesn't make sense.
My fear is that the devs have realized that with the current fancy graphics they can never have a lot of zombies, so they are making them smart instead.  I'd rather have worse graphics and more zombies.
 

NPCS
I think NPCs could be a good addition, but need to be implemented well. 
 

OTHER
1. The game could benefit from end game content - maybe boss zombies in difficult areas guarding the best loot.  Think of Conan Exiles/Ark Survival Evolved/Valheim. These are fun to prep for, especially in multiplayer.
 

2. All zombies should ALWAYS be searchable. If I have to expend a lot of ammo and risk my life for bloodmoon, it should be worth it for the loot.  

3. There needs to be toggles for things that people are highly polarized about (example digging zombies). I don't care one way or the other, but for some people it's a deal-breaker. Just give an option to turn them off. Problem solved.
 

4. I'd like a mode where you have to penetrate the brain to get a kill. You should still be able to do damage to anywhere in the body, but you should need a headshot/cut off head/bludgeon in head to actually kill it.  In State of Decay 2 it was absolutely hilarious to create zombie slugs by chopping off all their limbs.
 
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Zombie - Yeah but this connected with "you can destroy and bulid things" because if players love to use glitches 

npc -  There will be bandits 

1. Nah this not suit's into 7dtd. Because it's not RE. This more like hm... zombie panic source

2. this.... is kinda pointeless - you could loot corpses in older alpha but most time zombie was empty or had junk like 1 cloth fragment. So they did this for better performance

4. Nope - this is part of zombie AI so this could be problem  to just "turn off"

5. And in cod you can shot everywhere. You have feral zombies, spiders so head shot would be rly hard.  So people would complain because TFP want make  7dtd as 'learn to play" basic for mods

 
Jeraal said:
Not everyone hates LBD. I loved it and would welcome it back happily.
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I think it's the developers that hate it. Which really doesn't make sense to me, because it was one of the features that was present when the game started to get really popular. That should tell them they were on to something, yet they seem to want to keep switching things around anyways. And then we keep hearing how they're annoyed at fans for suggesting it should come back. It all just seems odd to me 🤨

 
ISPARTACUSI said:
I think it's the developers that hate it. Which really doesn't make sense to me, because it was one of the features that was present when the game started to get really popular.
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With that argument nothing could have been sensibly changed from when the game became popular.  It would have to go immediately into beta and be released.

Now the game is still popular so maybe LBD had nothing to do with the popularity. If it had seriously declined after changing the system then I would suspect they would have reevaluated, but that didn't happen

ISPARTACUSI said:
That should tell them they were on to something, yet they seem to want to keep switching things around anyways. And then we keep hearing how they're annoyed at fans for suggesting it should come back. It all just seems odd to me 🤨
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"I want LBD"

"Sorry, no"

"But I want it"

"Sorry, we want something different and thats final"

"But I really really want it"

"No"

"Yes, I want LBD"

"No"

"I want, I want, I want"

"Arrgh"

That surely sounds annoyed and rightfully so. 😁

 
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If you really like LBD then learn from the fact that you will not be doing such in game.  :p

Unless you meant Locate Build Destroy, in which case you'll be doing a lot of that in game.

 
Maharin said:
If you really like LBD then learn from the fact that you will not be doing such in game.  :p

Unless you meant Locate Build Destroy, in which case you'll be doing a lot of that in game.
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Still better advice that "make mod yourself!"

 
meganoth said:
You can only ask for what you don't have.

I would ask Khaine to remove LBD from his otherwise excellent mod if I thought there were any use in asking.
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And we don't have this in 7dtd. Mods are like ..... fanfics of books - you can find very good but are not offical right? 

 
ISPARTACUSI said:
I think it's the developers that hate it. Which really doesn't make sense to me, because it was one of the features that was present when the game started to get really popular. That should tell them they were on to something, yet they seem to want to keep switching things around anyways. And then we keep hearing how they're annoyed at fans for suggesting it should come back. It all just seems odd to me 🤨
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I don't see this change as complete overhaul or "once again switching everything around". The A20 system is still intact for A21 with the exception that learning crafting recipes for most things have been shifted from perks and books over to magazines. You still progress your skills of using the weapons and tools exactly the same way. All they did was decouple the crafting of recipes from the attributes (which I might add) was something people were asking for.

In other words the A21 perk and crafting system have undergone a development iteration that splits off crafting from the attributes and the use skills and at the same time encourages players to explore and scavenge-- which are core features of the gameplay. 

This change doesn't have anything to do with Learn By Doing. The devs don't hate it, btw. They just don't consider it any longer. It was dropped from development 4-5 years ago from their perspective and they long ago moved on. Its only certain fans that won't let go and bring it up again and again and again...futilely, I might add. As for being annoyed about it being brought up over and over and over, they've learned to live with such things thanks to all the console gamers. :)

 
Roland said:
In other words the A21 perk and crafting system have undergone a development iteration that splits off crafting from the attributes and the use skills and at the same time encourages players to explore and scavenge-- which are core features of the gameplay. 
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Are building and mining also core features of the game or just activities that you can do when you feel like it? I only ask because in this game you can get along just fine without these two activities, but not without looting.

 
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Matt115 said:
And we don't have this in 7dtd. Mods are like ..... fanfics of books - you can find very good but are not offical right? 
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And you are like ... the guy who lost a juwel on one side of the street but searches on the other side because there is light there.

There are lots of games with tons of official lore to sink your teeth in. Lore is something you won't find much in 7D2D and I suspect whatever will come will not be enough for you. I see 3 more years of morose comments in your future 😁

 
meganoth said:
You can only ask for what you don't have.

I would ask Khaine to remove LBD from his otherwise excellent mod if I thought there were any use in asking.
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I would so love to see his response if you actually did ask for it to be removed, especially if you asked in his discord..... 🤣

 
meganoth said:
And you are like ... the guy who lost a juwel on one side of the street but searches on the other side because there is light there.

There are lots of games with tons of official lore to sink your teeth in. Lore is something you won't find much in 7D2D and I suspect whatever will come will not be enough for you. I see 3 more years of morose comments in your future 😁
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I don't mean lore here - it's like people would asking valve for return of shield into cs go but valve said : "welll we don't want to add shields because you can find shields in mods"

 
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Matt115 said:
I don't mean lore here - it's like people would asking valve for return of shield into cs go but valve said : "welll we don't want to add shields because you can find shields in mods"
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You don't get how it works. TFP will do their game how they like. Since there are mods, TFP or helpful forum users will give the answer: "A mod does that" to some requests. IF they didn't have a moddable game, the answers would likely just be: "Sorry, not possible".

In other words, 7D2D without mods would not help you at all. There would not be a single zombie type more, there would not be any additional lore. There would not be LBD.

At max there would be a few more simple options switches in already, stuff that doesn't make additional work to support it through alphas.

 
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RipClaw said:
Are building and mining also core features of the game or just activities that you can do when you feel like it? I only ask because in this game you can get along just fine without these two activities, but not without looting.
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Building and mining are definitely important core parts of the game but like you said, you don’t have to engage in those activities. So maybe exploring and scavenging are the most core. 😂 

 
Roland said:
I don't see this change as complete overhaul or "once again switching everything around". The A20 system is still intact for A21 with the exception that learning crafting recipes for most things have been shifted from perks and books over to magazines. You still progress your skills of using the weapons and tools exactly the same way. All they did was decouple the crafting of recipes from the attributes (which I might add) was something people were asking for.

In other words the A21 perk and crafting system have undergone a development iteration that splits off crafting from the attributes and the use skills and at the same time encourages players to explore and scavenge-- which are core features of the gameplay. 

This change doesn't have anything to do with Learn By Doing. The devs don't hate it, btw. They just don't consider it any longer. It was dropped from development 4-5 years ago from their perspective and they long ago moved on. Its only certain fans that won't let go and bring it up again and again and again...futilely, I might add. As for being annoyed about it being brought up over and over and over, they've learned to live with such things thanks to all the console gamers. :)
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I'm personally looking forward to the change, as I find the current crafting system has a lot of drawbacks.  That said, I am expecting, maybe incorrectly, a fairly major perk overhaul to go with the new crafting system.

As perks that were generally only taken to unlock recipes won't do that any more, they'll need significant improvement in order to be in any way competative.  Sure, perking increases your chance to loot magazines in that area, but I really can't see anybody spending perk points into cooking if all it does is shorten cooking times.  Cooking time is just not a big enough deal to warrant spending perk points on.  20% chance per perk point to output two dishes instead of one when cooking?  That might be worth having...

As the new crap perks need improvement, logically this would be the opportunity to sort out the old virtually useless perks, to make them competative with the new baseline.  Put that all together and that's a fairly major overhaul of the entire perk system, not just crafting.

Of course the plan might be to just rip out the crafting element and leave perks as they are, but that's a really, really bad idea in my opinion.  I'm already saddened by how many just plain bad perks there are.  Not niche, just downright horrible.  And this coming from someone who really tries to make odd builds work rather than just going with the really obviously good choices.  Making a load more perks join the virtually useless club would be a real shame, even if it is just for the duration of an alpha and the perk balance comes with a subsequent release.

 
meganoth said:
You don't get how it works. TFP will do their game how they like. Since there are mods, TFP or helpful forum users will give the answer: "A mod does that" to some requests. IF they didn't have a moddable game, the answers would likely just be: "Sorry, not possible".

In other words, 7D2D without mods would not help you at all. There would not be a single zombie type more, there would not be any additional lore. There would not be LBD.

At max there would be a few more simple options switches in already, stuff that doesn't make additional work to support it through alphas.
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I agree about mechanics. But enemies, vehicles etc are diffrent  - let say 7dtd mods don't exist but still people asking for more content  so that could be done by DLC. Well there is usually two option - 1. finish game totaly  and maybe sometimes make fixes  , start making new game or stop making games ( like gothic devs)  etc 2. Make one dlc few or until dlc income will be no longer profitable  in like conan or ark situation

 
I recently "stuck my head in the door" with 7DTD again, been about a year or so.

I can definitely see an improvement in game performance and appearance (on most things). That's reassuring from an old adopter's PoV.

While I can see some of the OP's points, I just decided to put the game down for long periods of time until they get into Beta. Too many iterations to fool with for me. It probably makes me a throwback player as I am not up-to-speed on 7DTD gameflow, etc. Anybody who's been around since early days knows the Devs are going to do it the way they want, like it or not. So I just decided to wait them out and see what the Beta holds in store.

The price I paid many years ago wasn't very expensive, so I don't hold a grudge against TFPs for failing to meet personal wants in 7DTD. I will reevaluate it when the time comes.

Kind of reminds me of Raphael's recent The Long Dark announcement to move to (mostly) paid content in the future. Some folks were quite upset, but my initial investment has gone on long enough and if it means me ponying up a few dollars to enjoy new content, so be it.

 
Matt115 said:
I agree about mechanics. But enemies, vehicles etc are diffrent  - let say 7dtd mods don't exist but still people asking for more content  so that could be done by DLC. Well there is usually two option - 1. finish game totaly  and maybe sometimes make fixes  , start making new game or stop making games ( like gothic devs)  etc 2. Make one dlc few or until dlc income will be no longer profitable  in like conan or ark situation
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I vastly prefer DLC

 
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