Matt115
New member
Well assult rifle is bad example here because... Assult rifle is "all range" gun = it's good for long and short range too. But shotgun is bad for longer range so you have to use rifle as well to have chance
PC It's all gone wrong, terribly wrong.
- Thread starter Novamourne
- Start date
Kyonshi
New member
That's not the point... The claim the person Roland was responding to was that you can't adequately use a weapon you're not perked into, which is factually false and easily observable.
BFT2020
Well-known member
I love conversations like these because it gives me an excuse to slip in math 
What happens when you spec into a weapon (assuming you get an average weapon in terms of randomization). For the difficulty levels, I used 83% expected damage at warrior and 66% expected damage at Survivalist.
Not taking into consideration rounds per minute and reload speed, there is an obvious advantage in spec'ing into a weapon.
Nice thing about math, it doesn't have emotions and tries to win an argument; it just says - "Here are the facts"
What happens when you spec into a weapon (assuming you get an average weapon in terms of randomization). For the difficulty levels, I used 83% expected damage at warrior and 66% expected damage at Survivalist.
Not taking into consideration rounds per minute and reload speed, there is an obvious advantage in spec'ing into a weapon.
Nice thing about math, it doesn't have emotions and tries to win an argument; it just says - "Here are the facts"
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Matt115
New member
Yep but i just writing why assult gun is bad example because this is only universal weapon in this game . So if you put perks into Machine guns and you have a lot of ammo this would be pointless to change your weapon for shotgun in short range or sniper rifle in long rage.
i'm against weapons perks because they limit number of weapons in game
you forget about one fact that change how balance work - if this would be game like cod zombie. I would be 100% agree but... you have random stuff --> so it's better to invest into lucky looter + googles + candy that invest in weapons perks. why? because you don't know which weapon you will find and how many ammo you will get. So there is better to get next tier weapon faster and get shotgun that put point in hunting rifle but find low tier weapon ( ps junk shotgun is so useless so there even no point to invest in shotgun until you will find pomp shotgunI love conversations like these because it gives me an excuse to slip in math
What happens when you spec into a weapon (assuming you get an average weapon in terms of randomization)
View attachment 24876
Not taking into consideration rounds per minute and reload speed, there is an obvious advantage in spec'ing into a weapon.
Nice thing about math, it doesn't have emotions and tries to win an argument; it just says - "Here are the facts"
BFT2020
Well-known member
I think you lost a lot of us. There is no universal weapon in the game, there are 4 classes of gunpowder weapons in the game (Rifles, shotguns, machine guns, pistols/smgs).
Not everyone perks in fortitude (or even strength). I tend to perk into Agility myself. When I am looting / mining / adventuring in the world, I take a pistol with me along with a bow, and I have a shotgun ready as my backup weapon. During horde nights, I have a weapon from each class on my toolbelt and use all of them even if I am not spec'd into it - I typically use AP rounds in sniper rifles to take out armored foes - Demo for example. And I max out the perks in the Agility tree for the pistols / bows.
Also, weapon perks are not what is limiting the number of weapons in the game. TFP did not want to create a lot of weapon models and assets so they mostly sticked to 4 weapons per group based on the tiers
Matt115
New member
1. well i'm doing this same but because diffrent ammo - but for horde nights assults guns are the best one because you can shot zombie in close and long range. While looting i use melee plus shotgun or pistol to save rifle bullets . i'm making bases in starship troopers style mixed with ww1.
2. and TFP didn't wanted because... there is no option to make let say 10 axes , 10 sledgehammers variants. without perks you could have actuall number of melee weapons and tons of diffrents guns because.... nothing would limit you except ammo
No_Name_Idea
New member
Well, since we're now arguing about weapons and perks let me pitch my idea for like the 3rd time. I'd appreciate hearing what you guys think about it.
What do you think about a change that would remove damage bonuses from combat perks and some weapon mods (things like scopes, extended mags, etc)? Instead, perks would only increase/provide things like reload speed, rate of fire, crits, etc. Basically just removing the +damage% from perks and keeping the rest as is.
What do you think about a change that would remove damage bonuses from combat perks and some weapon mods (things like scopes, extended mags, etc)? Instead, perks would only increase/provide things like reload speed, rate of fire, crits, etc. Basically just removing the +damage% from perks and keeping the rest as is.
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Matt115
New member
Well this not solution in my opinion - honestly bigger dmg have more sense that critics. Why? well it could be added heavier barrel mod and this would be realistic and logical
No_Name_Idea
New member
I'm not talking about crits on all guns, only pistols currently have crits in their perks. Combat perks right now provide things like reload speed already, all I'm proposing is removing +damage% from those bonuses.
Matt115
New member
This would be good if weapons quality would be connected with advance engineering
No_Name_Idea
New member
That would make Intellect even more overpowered than it already is, although I agree that combat perks shouldn't effect the tier of weapons crafted by the player. That's another discussion though. It's not like you can't get higher tier weapons without perks.
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Matt115
New member
After adding steel parts intellect is rly.... underpowered because without looting you can't make steel tools
No_Name_Idea
New member
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Roland
Moderator
That is fair. The fact remains that in 2022, demolishers can be dealt with through building strategies and traps. The OP is talking like it’s still 2019.
BFT2020
Well-known member
Everyone plays the game differently, but it is not a requirement to get the next tier weapon ASAP. Lucky looter is usually one I don't spec into unless I am going more Perception tree; but it is usually not high on my list of perks to unlock really. A double barrel shotgun is just as effective as a pump shotgun if used properly. Heck, I have gone games where I kept using a higher quality T1 weapon even though I found lower quality T2 weapons. A Q6 double barrel is much better than a Q1 pump shotgun if that is my backup weapon.
10% boost in damage per perk level affects every weapon in the class you end up spec'ing into. Even if I only have a T0 or T1 weapon at that point, I know the point is not going to be wasted when I eventually get the T3 weapons. Some people might not want to perk into weapons which is totally fine; however, based on comments we see in the forums, a lot of people wish they could spec into most of the weapons.
That's really interesting that you said this
<insertBefore xpath="/progression/perks/perk[@name='perkDeadEye']/effect_group/passive_effect[@name='EntityDamage']">
<passive_effect name="CraftingTier" operation="base_add" level="1,2,3,4,5" value="1,1,1,1,1" tags="PipeRifle"/>
<passive_effect name="CraftingTier" operation="base_add" level="1,2,3,4,5" value="1,2,3,3,3" tags="T1Rifle"/>
<passive_effect name="CraftingTier" operation="base_add" level="1,2,3,4,5" value="1,2,2,2,2" tags="T2Rifle"/>
<passive_effect name="CraftingTier" operation="base_add" level="1,2,3,4,5" value="1,1,1,1,1" tags="T3Rifle"/>
</insertBefore>
Code:
<!-- New Quality 6 Crafting Perk -->
<insertAfter xpath="/progression/perks/perk[@name='perkGreaseMonkey']">
<perk name="perkQualityCrafting" parent="skillIntellectCraftsmanship" name_key="perkQualityCraftingName" desc_key="perkQualityCraftingDesc" icon="ui_game_symbol_service">
<level_requirements level="1"><requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="attIntellect" operation="GTE" value="2" desc_key="reqIntellectLevel02"/></level_requirements>
<level_requirements level="2"><requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="attIntellect" operation="GTE" value="4" desc_key="reqIntellectLevel04"/></level_requirements>
<level_requirements level="3"><requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="attIntellect" operation="GTE" value="6" desc_key="reqIntellectLevel06"/></level_requirements>
<level_requirements level="4"><requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="attIntellect" operation="GTE" value="8" desc_key="reqIntellectLevel08"/></level_requirements>
<level_requirements level="5"><requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="attIntellect" operation="GTE" value="10" desc_key="reqIntellectLevel10"/></level_requirements>
<effect_group>
<passive_effect name="CraftingTier" operation="base_add" level="1,2,3,4,5" value="2,2,2,2,2" tags="T1Crafting"/>
<passive_effect name="CraftingTier" operation="base_add" level="1,2,3,4,5" value="1,2,2,3,3" tags="T2Crafting"/>
<passive_effect name="CraftingTier" operation="base_add" level="1,2,3,4,5" value="0,1,2,3,4" tags="T3Crafting"/>
<effect_description level="1" desc_key="perkQualityCraftingRank1Desc" long_desc_key="perkQualityCraftingRank1LongDesc"/>
<effect_description level="2" desc_key="perkQualityCraftingRank2Desc" long_desc_key="perkQualityCraftingRank2LongDesc"/>
<effect_description level="3" desc_key="perkQualityCraftingRank3Desc" long_desc_key="perkQualityCraftingRank3LongDesc"/>
<effect_description level="4" desc_key="perkQualityCraftingRank4Desc" long_desc_key="perkQualityCraftingRank4LongDesc"/>
<effect_description level="5" desc_key="perkQualityCraftingRank5Desc" long_desc_key="perkQualityCraftingRank5LongDesc"/>
</effect_group>
</perk>
</insertAfter>Easy to do in a mod really
Even before Auto turrets stopped triggering demos, they still could be used. The trick was either shutting them off if the demos showed up or just setting them up to trigger the demos further from your base and let them take out other zombies for you. A lot of people gave up fighting them (and then complained) if the way they built bases suddenly couldn't take care of this new threat without having to adapt.
No_Name_Idea
New member
Jesus @%$#ing Christ...That's really interesting that you said this
--code--
Maybe, but the game ain't balanced around it. Either way, I have zero modding knowledge and I assume the same is true for the majority of players.
Matt115
New member
not rly - junk shotgun is much much weaker that double barrel shotgun because probly ( it need to be checked ) 2 point into shotgun junk gun with green quality will have lower DPS that 0 point orange 2 barrel shotgun. Well honestly this depends a lot on your luck at T1/T2 stage. After adding perks into INT perks and lucky looter perks you will have enough perks to spend them into guns without problem. But still.... gamestage make 7dtd into unlogical as hell. that's why i'm against global gamestage ( global by meaning connected with characters) - local gamestage -> wildness --> small city etc is much more logical
Ramethzer0
Well-known member
Novamourne said:
I heavily disagree with about 90% of what you said.
And I never met you, but okay. Good talk. See ya.
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Missyism
New member
I don't know if this will get read or not but, I've been playing since A14 and I absolutely love the game. TFP has done an amazing job with this game and progression. While I think that the game should have been made a full game a long time ago, we need to all consider something. This game has been around for years and we have all payed somewhere between 20-40 dollars for the game. There is now mods and other things to change the game and there is so many things to do. Bottom line, if you dont like quests, dont do them. If you want to craft more, loot less of the big boxes pois provide. The wasteland is hard as heck and I love it for the excitement so make a base there and you will never be bored LOL. We have all played this game for years and not payed another cent. For me, I have over 4000 hours in it and it has by far payed for its worth. Thank you fun pimps for making this an amazing game for "most". Peace 
Lmao its the big red button all over again! How hard is it to ignore trader quests? Is it really such a struggle to play without top grade weapons?
Trader quests become tedious quickly, so I dont do them (rarely use traders for that matter) All lower tier weapons work fine anything better found is a bonus. Scavenging will always be more fun than just buying. Surprised we havent had "Make all top gear available at vending machines from start" yet....... Oh god!!! What have I done??? Nnnnuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!
Trader quests become tedious quickly, so I dont do them (rarely use traders for that matter) All lower tier weapons work fine anything better found is a bonus. Scavenging will always be more fun than just buying. Surprised we havent had "Make all top gear available at vending machines from start" yet....... Oh god!!! What have I done??? Nnnnuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!