PC It just seems broken to me

Gun manufacturers are gone in the apocalypse, so these guns should be scavenge only. Building a production firearm is not something anyone can do.
Click to expand...
I suspect this was a decision focusing on game play rather than realism.

It was a good choice imo.

Didn't like the old system.

Wasted far too many hours putting parts together to make a 600Q weapon to sell to Traders.

No thanks!

Is it a perfect system? Not by any means.

Is it better? Yeah... at least I feel it is.

 
Absolutely agree with the topic. I'll add that removing interchangeable vehicle components hurts in the same way as with the weapons, IMO. Upgrading was part of the fun!
And I thought it was going to be awesome to be able to craft weapons, but in the end it just feels cheaper. Gun manufacturers are gone in the apocalypse, so these guns should be scavenge only. Building a production firearm is not something anyone can do. Maybe broaden the selection of custom survivor weapons you can craft?

Or maybe that'll end up being lucky for you?
Click to expand...
My uncle was a gunsmith. I suspect that the reason why he was so damn crazy was due to the heavy metal poisoning from all the machining he did, as well as bluing pistols on the stove top.

I knew a guy in college who was a mechanical engineering major who sold firing pins for 5 bucks apiece. I never bought any from him, but if i was desperate for a firing pin that would have been the guy to go to.

Making firearms in a post apocalyptic setting is not far fetched, the reason why we are not drowned in home made guns in the US is because of the tax stamp that the ATF requires. They had some serious problems with crazy weapons back in the 1920s.

Personally, i would rather the crafted guns be limited to more primitive guns, like a repeating rifle, shotgun, a six shooter, and the AK. I also think that they should be limited to a new crafting bench like a lathe or end mill. Maybe add a machine shop poi that is filled with bikers and workers.

And instead of a color quality, it should be brand names. That would be a cool thing.

 
I trust that the Pimps continue to read feedback like this and continue to balance the new systems until they feel right. .
Click to expand...
You really think that? Given the changes the Forge has underwent in the last few builds? They obviously haven't a clue, and if A17 turns out satisfying, it'll be a fluke.

 
I suspect this was a decision focusing on game play rather than realism.
It was a good choice imo.

Didn't like the old system..
Click to expand...
So what are you going to out exploring and looting for once your main base is up? Glue and gunpowder is the answer because you will have everything else. I hope you enjoy it.

 
I guess certain games arn't for everyone so maybe this is just me, as a new player, with about 2-3 months experience. Is it better to post the reasons I probably wont play this much or just go silently into the distance? Since I am not a long time player this is just a fresh perspective on my thoughts.
What I played of Alpha 16 seemed too easy. Still it was fun and somewhat rewarding. Of course this wasn't after years like many of you so it was still fresh to me. I struggled at the start of 17 as it was a bit harder. Watching Znation really taught me how to work the night and to farm screamer hoards for levels by the end of day 2. Overall the game really isn't hard once you understand the mechanics but I would consider it annoying compared to 16. Certain aspects just don't make it harder but instead make it very tedious.

Stamina just seems to be a broken mechanic that isn't fun. Food and water drain just add to the frustration. Just by completing the starting quest tonight I had lost over 30% food and water? This seems like it's really absurd and out of balance regardless of how much you can find. Traveling without a vehicle is just horrible because of this. This mechanic just does nothing for me and now it's a long portion of the game. I don't find any enjoyment in a aspect that just seems to nag you every few minutes.

The melee combat is wonky and feels very unrefined for a game of this age. It seems like there would be an arc when swinging and not a pin point mechanic. Not sure how many times I went to hit a z on the ground only to swing through them and hit the ground under them. Better yet, a z slightly moves his head causing a total miss. So I dont have a lot of real life experience swinging a bat at someones head. I do think I could make more then 2 swings before becoming exhausted and do it in a manner that would greatly increase my chances of hitting someone mindlessly walking towards me. It's overcome by switching to the bow but just adds another annoying aspect that doesn't bring enjoyment. 16 seemed to be much more enjoyable while still not letting it be endless.

The ranged mechanic feels pretty good although some aspects of aiming seem to be silly. It's not a major thing but just something that didn't seem to have a lot of thought put into it. Another chip you might say?

The loot system just seems so much less rewarding now. Mods seem empty when compared to building something with better parts throughout the game. I would have loved to see a mix of the two where it was somewhat combined. It would have added so much to the game and not made it feel rushed. Same with the bicycle being a welcomed addition but the other 3 really don't add much from one another except storage. As far as I can tell they all move at about the same speed and loose durability at the same rate. The durability loss is also a bit silly.

I understand that 17 is welcomed by the long term players as it changes things up on a 5 year old early access game. I just can't taste the koolade with this new release. It did make it harder in a few aspects but introduced so much more in annoyance that I don't find it as enjoyable. There are certainly harder games out there and I find it disappointing that they couldn't see the good from 16 and integrate it with 17. Instead it almost feels like they just started from scratch which is mind boggling. Anyway hope I didnt offend anyone too much. Im sure I will try it out once it goes stable but this version just doesn't suit my tastes so far. Happy Holidays to the Pimps and support. Remember to take some off and enjoy the season!
Click to expand...
If you truly enjoy the game and these are the few things that push you away just wait until A17 becomes stable and use one of the many mods people will come up with to solve these things. This is one of the strengths of the game and it has a pretty robust modding community. Stamina and loot will surely be modded to your needs in short order.

Otherwise realizing a game is not for you and moving on is a healthy response.

 
So what are you going to out exploring and looting for once your main base is up? Glue and gunpowder is the answer because you will have everything else. I hope you enjoy it.
Click to expand...
First off you have to keep in mind that the game devs have plans for epic loot. They've said so repeatedly. It's just not in game yet. This is not their final plan for loot.

At the moment you are entitled to your frustration and I might share it if your statement applied to me. Even as things are now and missing any sort of epic loot, fortunately does not.

I never find enough:

Brass

Lead

Duct Tape

Pain Meds

First Aid Kits

Ammo

Cloth

Food

Stuff to sell to trader

Repair Kits

Jars

And also Glue & Gunpowder!

But then again I'd much rather spend my time looting than mining or farming.

I'm not dismissing your point by any means I just wanted to share that people playing this game do run a vast spectrum and caution must be made when making sweeping statements. Also wanted to let you know that from I've read the game dev's agree to a point and plan better loot down the road.

 
My uncle was a gunsmith. I suspect that the reason why he was so damn crazy was due to the heavy metal poisoning from all the machining he did, as well as bluing pistols on the stove top.
I knew a guy in college who was a mechanical engineering major who sold firing pins for 5 bucks apiece. I never bought any from him, but if i was desperate for a firing pin that would have been the guy to go to.

Making firearms in a post apocalyptic setting is not far fetched, the reason why we are not drowned in home made guns in the US is because of the tax stamp that the ATF requires. They had some serious problems with crazy weapons back in the 1920s.

Personally, i would rather the crafted guns be limited to more primitive guns, like a repeating rifle, shotgun, a six shooter, and the AK. I also think that they should be limited to a new crafting bench like a lathe or end mill. Maybe add a machine shop poi that is filled with bikers and workers.

And instead of a color quality, it should be brand names. That would be a cool thing.
Click to expand...
Your uncle and your college friend had special training, hobby resources, and available tooling and supplies. All would be in short supply in a post-apocalyptic world. If I personally am pretty intelligent, I could acquire almost any skill I like in today's world, within a number of years. In a post apocalyptic world I would have only my own ingenuity and what I can discover among the wreckage of civilization. When I say gun manufacturing isn't something anyone can do, it's a result of this line of reasoning, not because I'm ignorant on the subject. Just look at how widely good rifle designs circulated globally in history for a picture of the scarcity of reliable firearm design. There have been many terrible designs that are now lost to history--this all is a picture of what people are really capable of, pre information/internet age. This is why I say FIND the production firearms but CRAFT something more crude yet effective. Being able to craft a Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum from basic elements in a post-apocalyptic situation is SO absurd that I feel it has cheapened what should be a real treasure.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
A17 is the best version of the game, by far. The people that complain the most want the game to either be super easy, or they want a pretty variant of minecraft. Or they can't handle change. Or they can't grasp the concepts of "alpha", early access, and/or "in development." As a zombie survival game, A17 is excellent.

But, the #1 factor most people seem to not grasp is...

7DTD is an "alpha" - the game is in development.

On top of that, A17 is an experimental branch of an alpha.

So anybody who is thin skinned, doesn't like restarting, doesn't like change, isn't willing to allow the devs the freedom to make THEIR game, and so on, should not play early access games, should not play beta/alpha versions of games, and sure as hell should not play experimental branches of alpha games that are in very heavy flux.

Either stick with A16 until A17 is official, or wait for the game to be released. If you're incapable of playing without complaining about EVERYTHING and being perpetually unhappy and resistant to every change, then wait for release and make your purchase based on the final product.

Hopping into an early access game, or worse, and experimental branch, and then saying idiotic things like "I don't know if this game is for me" is ludicrous.

Allow the devs to make their game, and if you don't like it in the end, don't buy it. If you buy into early access that's a choice, and a risk - the risk being that you may not like how the game turns out - but that's on you for gambling, not on the devs for making their game their way and you not liking it.

Judging by the traffic here and the number of servers being played, a great deal of people like/love this game. The vast majority of people who like the game do not come here to post. Most people that post are in the extreme minority of complainers or people who fail to understand they're in early access/development and who cling to the old, want things their way, or who should take their amazing ideas and coding abilities off towards making their own games since they're clearly better devs and designers than the pimps.

 
A17 is the best version of the game, by far. The people that complain the most want the game to either be super easy, or they want a pretty variant of minecraft. Or they can't handle change. Or they can't grasp the concepts of "alpha", early access, and/or "in development." As a zombie survival game, A17 is excellent.
But, the #1 factor most people seem to not grasp is...

7DTD is an "alpha" - the game is in development.

On top of that, A17 is an experimental branch of an alpha.

So anybody who is thin skinned, doesn't like restarting, doesn't like change, isn't willing to allow the devs the freedom to make THEIR game, and so on, should not play early access games, should not play beta/alpha versions of games, and sure as hell should not play experimental branches of alpha games that are in very heavy flux.

Either stick with A16 until A17 is official, or wait for the game to be released. If you're incapable of playing without complaining about EVERYTHING and being perpetually unhappy and resistant to every change, then wait for release and make your purchase based on the final product.

Hopping into an early access game, or worse, and experimental branch, and then saying idiotic things like "I don't know if this game is for me" is ludicrous.

Allow the devs to make their game, and if you don't like it in the end, don't buy it. If you buy into early access that's a choice, and a risk - the risk being that you may not like how the game turns out - but that's on you for gambling, not on the devs for making their game their way and you not liking it.

Judging by the traffic here and the number of servers being played, a great deal of people like/love this game. The vast majority of people who like the game do not come here to post. Most people that post are in the extreme minority of complainers or people who fail to understand they're in early access/development and who cling to the old, want things their way, or who should take their amazing ideas and coding abilities off towards making their own games since they're clearly better devs and designers than the pimps.
Click to expand...
Everything has been said and refuted before.

I won't talk for everyone who complains, but most of us just dislike the crawl. The work and the grind, as well as the new unfairness (beeing hard and beeing unfair is not the same)

And it is 5+ years in alpha. I'm not saying they have to end it, but I'm saying this can't be used as an excuse forever!

And you telling US that we just want it easy/minecrafty, when we play on insane, less loot/airdrops and with 32+ bloodmoon count is ignorance at its finest.

Please try not to blame everyone who is of different opinion to you and don't put words in their mouths.

SOME people might want it easier (ppl who want digging to be inactive, but they have other reasons as well) but not all... and I don't even think most of us who critizise A17

 
A17 is the best version of the game, by far. The people that complain the most want the game to either be super easy, or they want a pretty variant of minecraft. Or they can't handle change. Or they can't grasp the concepts of "alpha", early access, and/or "in development." As a zombie survival game, A17 is excellent.
But, the #1 factor most people seem to not grasp is...

7DTD is an "alpha" - the game is in development.

On top of that, A17 is an experimental branch of an alpha.

So anybody who is thin skinned, doesn't like restarting, doesn't like change, isn't willing to allow the devs the freedom to make THEIR game, and so on, should not play early access games, should not play beta/alpha versions of games, and sure as hell should not play experimental branches of alpha games that are in very heavy flux.

Either stick with A16 until A17 is official, or wait for the game to be released. If you're incapable of playing without complaining about EVERYTHING and being perpetually unhappy and resistant to every change, then wait for release and make your purchase based on the final product.

Hopping into an early access game, or worse, and experimental branch, and then saying idiotic things like "I don't know if this game is for me" is ludicrous.

Allow the devs to make their game, and if you don't like it in the end, don't buy it. If you buy into early access that's a choice, and a risk - the risk being that you may not like how the game turns out - but that's on you for gambling, not on the devs for making their game their way and you not liking it.

Judging by the traffic here and the number of servers being played, a great deal of people like/love this game. The vast majority of people who like the game do not come here to post. Most people that post are in the extreme minority of complainers or people who fail to understand they're in early access/development and who cling to the old, want things their way, or who should take their amazing ideas and coding abilities off towards making their own games since they're clearly better devs and designers than the pimps.
Click to expand...
First of all, the OP made many good points, thier post was well thought out and articulated. The Orignal post has sparked some pretty civilized debate. The point of view of a new player is important to the success of this game in the fututer. When this game reaches final release it will have to be somthing people will want to play. We have already bought the game and played the heck out of it, we are not the future market of this game.

This game has a steep learning curve to it as it is, many of us have mastered it through many iterations. Take a step back and check the hostility at the door, look at this game from the perspective of a new player, a new money paying customer. This is not your game, it's not my game, its intended to be marketed to a wide range of futire players.

Haveing these debates give the Fun Pimps a look at what players "customers" are thinking.

Give feedback and try to respect the feedback of others, you dont have to agrea with them.

 
I don't know if the OP realizes how much more there is to this game still to come. There will be bandits and NPCs and backstory and more quests and END GAME!!!! I keep playing and honing my skills (cuz I suck at combat) because there is so much more to come@!

Once the kinks are worked out and the optimizing is complete, TFP can concentrate on storyline and fleshing out the game. I don't know what their grand idea is, but I love everything (that I don't mod coffcoff UI with more info) even the stuff that forces me to adapt to play different.

Hubby and I were molemen until this version dropped, now we are back to tower building. There is so much we havent even touched, solar panels, vehicles, auto turrets. I can't imagine ever being bored, frustrated at times, but never bored. SP needs some love, but I cant see how they can balance that with MP at all. They would have to have totally different scales and xp and balancing in order to let one person "do it all"

 
Also agree with the OP. This is my fav game ever and ive logged thousands of hours. It's still a good game but balance is way off on everything and needs alot of attention...just like every other big patch.

I could rant and douse this place with salt just like everyone else but im standing back and waiting for steams review system to do this once the game is released as stable.

If the game is too frustrating right now I highly recommend going back to a16 or playing something else in the meantime...or even playing in creative mode to see some cool stuff that was added.

Things will get tweaked in time but ya the game was needlessly rebuilt and is broken in so many ways and we got to wait a year for it.

 
I mostly agree with all the stuff the OP listed. Something stood out to me:

The loot system just seems so much less rewarding now. Mods seem empty when compared to building something with better parts throughout the game. I would have loved to see a mix of the two where it was somewhat combined. It would have added so much to the game and not made it feel rushed.
Click to expand...
I think there's a very good idea here. Full disclosure; I have not progressed far enough in the experimental to even begin messing with mods, but I've seen how they work and I'm aware of the changes to gun construction. I think TFP should have kept the old construction system with the original 1-600 quality range, but expanded on it. They could have incorporated mod functionality into the old parts system. So, switching out the receiver could change shooting speed or give automatic fire options; the barrel could provide additional range, swapping out the stock might provide better handling, etc. I think this along with the old quality ranges preserved (as they provided nuance and actually impacted the weapon performance instead of just breaking down faster) would have been a far superior system. It would have encouraged POI dives looking for those rare gun components and made guns feel more personal. Now guns are just everywhere, and they all the feel the same and are mostly just things to trade away so I can buy all the trader's boiled eggs.

But that probably would have been too hard to balance, hence the simplified system. Same story with killing skills in favor of "perks". General disappointment abounds with this alpha.

 
So what are you going to out exploring and looting for once your main base is up? Glue and gunpowder is the answer because you will have everything else. I hope you enjoy it.
Click to expand...
I'm constantly building large projects [in anticipation for Colonies among other things.]

I never run out of things to loot for.

Always short on something.

Builds like this one

Soo.... sounds to me like this is a personal thing... for you, and not a game play issue ... for everyone.

 
First of all, the OP made many good points, thier post was well thought out and articulated. The Orignal post has sparked some pretty civilized debate. The point of view of a new player is important to the success of this game in the fututer. When this game reaches final release it will have to be somthing people will want to play. We have already bought the game and played the heck out of it, we are not the future market of this game.
This game has a steep learning curve to it as it is, many of us have mastered it through many iterations. Take a step back and check the hostility at the door, look at this game from the perspective of a new player, a new money paying customer. This is not your game, it's not my game, its intended to be marketed to a wide range of futire players.

Haveing these debates give the Fun Pimps a look at what players "customers" are thinking.

Give feedback and try to respect the feedback of others, you dont have to agrea with them.
Click to expand...
Above and beyond everything else....this 100%

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top