PC It doesnt matter if we can "craft" T6

[Kalarro]

As a player who loves crafting, Im not worried about latest debate between beeing able to "craft" T6 or not. Why? Because that's not crafting. They have removed the crafting of weapons and tools with a18.

Back at a16 and before, did any of you really say Im a fireweapon crafter? No, you crafted tools, you crafted mele weapons and bows. But you found weapon parts and just put them togeather. Now they have done the same with every frakin thing. We dont craft tools or any kind of weapon, we loot them, but unassembled, and then press a button to assemble them. That's not crafting.

Crafting is gathering the materials, processing them, maybe needing a looted tool before beeing able to process some tier materials. And then craft them with those materials.

Why would we fight over beeing able to assemble tier 6 or not. We are just looting every tier, some of them just need extra perk points wasted and an extra button press to assemble them.

BTW Im fine with firegun weapon parts, it's the non fire weapons and tools what sucks. Getting fireguns should be much rarer anyway

EDIT: example. Imagine in a19 blocks arent done with gathered materials anymore. We can just loot wood parts and stone parts and such to "craft" blocks. At the same time, we cant loot reinforced concrete blocks, we can only loot reinforced concrete blocks already finished, bc "the last tier shouldnt be crafted"

And instead of every crafter complaining about not beeing able to really craft blocks anymore, we just complain that we cant assemble reinforced concrete blocks with reinforced concrete block parts.

This is how I see all you fighting for beeing able to "craft" T6 tools

 

[RipClaw]

I agree 100%. Whether I can craft Q6 items or not doesn't matter to me but that I can't craft a steel pickaxe because I need tool parts for it is annoying.

 

[Sjustus548]

It feels kind of off that I can build a fully functional 4x4 from random materials I find/make but I can't wrap my brain around making a steel sledgehammer unless I have the parts already available for me to use. I can build generators that run power to my entire base, a base that I built with my own two hands, including numerous turrets, blade traps, and lights but the idea of a steel pickaxe is somehow too advanced for me unless someone else has already made all the parts for me.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

The point is that you have to depend on RNG to get tier 6. And no one likes it when you have to rely on RNG. It can be a very cruel mistress. Wich can be very frustrating. Is that the point of a game? To have frustrating moments dictated by RNG?

RNG is needed ofc, but it should never lead to frustration. Forge ahead book in earlier alphas for example. Can´t count the hours i will never get back just because of this damn book.

 

[Katitof]

You're not going to be sitting in your cave, never having to go out and get best gear that way.

You're not going to see learn by doing again.

You're not going to see craftable parts again.

Its a balance thing.

Devs want you to go out, because they have seen it as a problem in previous alphas that you never had to at certain point, so now you have to, deal with it.

You want to build everything just from sitting in a cave, microsoft is publishing a game for that, its lil more blocky, but its exactly what you want.

 

[Kalarro]

Yeah yeah,Katitof, heard your argument 20 times. It's still bll♥♥♥♥. Im out looting half of the time, with this change or without it. Your "crafting is easier" argument is totally false. Looting is the easy way to do stuff. You just loot and get everything. Crafting is where you have to work for getting something specific. Spend a ton of perkpoints in crafting instead of making you stronger, spend time gathering which doesnt give you random finihsed guns and everything, set up a crafting infraestructure with lots of forges, mixers, stations, and such things, if you want to craft fast. And while we do all that we still loot.

Its you who wants to just do 1 thing and get everything. Its you playing on easymode. Even more in a18 where looting is like winning the lottery each 10 minutes.

Many of us complained in a17 that there was no incentive on going out looting. That didnt mean we didnt go out looting. We did, but wanted it to be more rewarding, even more required. Yes, I also said that. But now it's just as bad or even worse in the opposite direction. Looting gives you such rewards that everything else feels useless.

 

[Katitof]

And we've heard yours as many times as well, making a separate thread for it isn't going to reinforce it nor is it going to lead to a change.

Builders have to get used to looting and leaving the base.

Fighters have to get used to picking 1 type of weapon.

Looters are at last viable after first 10 hours.

Every single spec is a crafter now, if you don't want to loot for parts, go visit traders.

Days of never having to leave the base to get purple stuff are gone, get over 6 stages of grief and move on, denial won't last that long, adapting to new direction.

 

[Sjustus548]

...Even more in a18 where looting is like winning the lottery each 10 minutes.

On day 1 I had a tier 3 shotgun and AK, a tier 2 hunting rifle and junk turret, 90+ shells, 50+ 7.62 rounds, armor, iron or steel tools, plus other nice things. Crafting doesn't compare at all to looting.

 

[RipClaw]

You're not going to be sitting in your cave, never having to go out and get best gear that way.

It's not about having the best gear, it's about the fact that this limitation with the parts is out of place with some weapons and tools.

And by the way, if I go to my mine, I'm out of my base. Just because I don't constantly loot POIs doesn't mean I'm just sitting in my base.

You're not going to see learn by doing again.
You're not going to see craftable parts again.

Its a balance thing.

It's a design decision. A design decision can be good or bad. That has nothing to do with balancing.

Roland has already written that they going to make some changes because they have seen that this design decision has weakened the crafting too much.

Devs want you to go out, because they have seen it as a problem in previous alphas that you never had to at certain point, so now you have to, deal with it.

In A17 I could craft everything myself and still I looted a lot more than in the previous Alphas. The reason was the quests.

The secret is not to restrict people but to give them something to do. Through the quests I have always been given a concrete goal instead of having to think about what to loot.

You want to build everything just from sitting in a cave, microsoft is publishing a game for that, its lil more blocky, but its exactly what you want.

You've apparently never played Minecraft in survival mode. Without exploring, you will never be able to craft a lot of items.

 

[Kalarro]

And we've heard yours as many times as well,

why dont you act like it then? Look how you have heard me many times:

Builders have to get used to looting and leaving the base.

Ive said it several times. I love going out looting. But I love crafting too, and right now, there is no crafting. You always, always answer me as if Im trying to find a way to stay at base and dont go out. It has nothing to do with that. I just love crafting, and they removed the crafting of everything. Assembling parts is not crafting.

if you don't want to loot for parts, go visit traders.

But you clearly read my argument many times right?

 

[Khulkhuum]

The best example for being able to craft: Some time ago i found (shortly after 14th day horde) a T3 iron pickaxe. Before the horde i did craft a T2 (with the appropriate skillpoint investment). So i switched from T2 to T3 (with 2 modslots and a bit higher damage). Due to changes in the update that came soon after and additional investments i made to my skills, i was able to craft T4 and did it.

I could judge it as either bad luck or good luck, considering a lot changes during these Experimental updates. Oh well...

 

[Katitof]

It's not about having the best gear, it's about the fact that this limitation with the parts is out of place with some weapons and tools.

I know what you're saying, but again, that's a balance decision to put crafting and looting on equal footing, without it, crafting would be uncontested superior choice for obvious reasons.

And by the way, if I go to my mine, I'm out of my base. Just because I don't constantly loot POIs doesn't mean I'm just sitting in my base.

Irrelevant if your mine is 10 or 100 blocks away, you aren't going to be exposed to pretty much anything there if you secure entrance a little.

It's a design decision. A design decision can be good or bad. That has nothing to do with balancing.Roland has already written that they going to make some changes because they have seen that this design decision has weakened the crafting too much.

Sure it can. But yes, it has everything to do with balancing. You don't need parts for low tier stuff, just for more advanced one that would provide effort free massive income off of crafting without any exposure of yourself, you know, like it was since alpha that introduced traders up until A17. Also, the changes were already made, allowing to craft T6 stuff with random stats and allowing higher tier scrap for more parts.

In A17 I could craft everything myself and still I looted a lot more than in the previous Alphas. The reason was the quests.The secret is not to restrict people but to give them something to do. Through the quests I have always been given a concrete goal instead of having to think about what to loot.

You're not restricted, you're balanced against other playstyles.

Unrestricted crafting means incontested superiority to the point where you can ignore quests and just sell stuff, you know, again, as in A17.

You still can craft high tier stuff and sell it for more then 5 gray items combined, you just can't spam craft it now as you could before, unless its basic stuff.

You've apparently never played Minecraft in survival mode. Without exploring, you will never be able to craft a lot of items.

Difference is, exploring there still puts you at danger, so does mining, mining in 7d is 100% fool proof and yields massive rewards without any risk. This is specifically why parts were introduced the way they are in A18 now. There was all-reward, no risk previously and you could make infinite amount of dukes that way. I most certainly did in A17. It took away any reason to scavenge, you just had to craft, sell and buy everything you needed from maxed barter and secret stash.

 

[Brian9824]

The biggest issue I have is why should I ever put points into crafting now?

I mean the ONLY way to get tier 6 items is by looting or trader, so I can choose to invest in 20 different crafting skills, or put a handful of points into my looting and bartering. THAT gets you far more loot and mods and other useful stuff then crafting did.

I have no issue with finding the best stuff and actually like it, but they need a way to tie crafting into the game otherwise what's the point when bartering and looting is so superior?

Hence my suggestion to tie crafting into repairs to give crafting a value - https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?128416-Tie-in-repairs-of-items-to-crafting-skills

 

[Kalen]

I know what you're saying, but again, that's a balance decision to put crafting and looting on equal footing, without it, crafting would be uncontested superior choice for obvious reasons.

Except that its not on equal footing anymore.

To get a T5 item via crafting you have to spend a bunch of perk points, go out an loot a bunch of items to scrap for parts, then craft

To loot a T6 item you have to open a container and cross your fingers.

It's ironic to me that TFP went out of their way to remove a lot of the RNG in this game by making perks have recipes in case you get unlucky finding a specific recipe.... but T6 is completely reliant on RNG when it never was before.

So looting is the uncontested superior choice.... actually, for T6, its the only choice.

 

[Katitof]

Except that its not on equal footing anymore.
To get a T5 item via crafting you have to spend a bunch of perk points, go out an loot a bunch of items to scrap for parts, then craft

To loot a T6 item you have to open a container and cross your fingers.

Yeah, either you take an effort and get a reliable and desired outcome or you just shoot and shoot blindly, hoping one day you'll score a hit that might never come because RNG.

That's exactly how balance wokrs. You can't really balance perfectly against pure RNG roll, but you can introduce different qualities of craftables after the time you'd think it would make sense to have a jackpot at looting.

I did that kind of balancing in the past and its much, much more convoluted then you make it seem(given, I worked on *puts shame hat on* loot boxes), but that's exactly how you make it balanced against RNG - you time gate it by progression and materials. There is no other way to balance this out, just ask any person who has ever worked on any kind of loot drops for MMO game.

It's ironic to me that TFP went out of their way to remove a lot of the RNG in this game by making perks have recipes in case you get unlucky finding a specific recipe.... but T6 is completely reliant on RNG when it never was before.
So looting is the uncontested superior choice.... actually, for T6, its the only choice.

Are you trying to say that its impossible for you to find or buy maximum 6 same items of any quality or just get parts directly off of trader before level 25(if you focus exclusively on crafting perk) or level 40-50(if you spread around for solo build)?

 

[Kalen]

Yeah, either you take an effort and get a reliable and desired outcome or you just shoot and shoot blindly, hoping one day you'll score a hit that might never come because RNG.That's exactly how balance wokrs. You can't really balance perfectly against pure RNG roll, but you can introduce different qualities of craftables after the time you'd think it would make sense to have a jackpot at looting.

I did that kind of balancing in the past and its much, much more convoluted then you make it seem(given, I worked on *puts shame hat on* loot boxes), but that's exactly how you make it balanced against RNG - you time gate it by progression and materials. There is no other way to balance this out, just ask any person who has ever worked on any kind of loot drops for MMO game.

But again, it's not balanced now. One way it's possible to get T6, the other way it isn't possible.

Are you trying to say that its impossible for you to find or buy maximum 6 same items of any quality or just get parts directly off of trader before level 25(if you focus exclusively on crafting perk) or level 40-50(if you spread around for solo build)?

Of course it's not impossible... whats your point? Are you saying its impossible to loot a T6 item before level 25?

 

[Snowballyoyo]

Well the problem is that crafting is basically worthless past early game now. You have to find and scrap 4+ steel tools to be able to craft any at all of a decent quality. The chances are high that you already have one of decent quality by then and so especially with the no T6 crafting, the points into crafting are entirely wasted. Looting is the only viable way to get things now. And looting was also the only way to get weapon mods before, so it always had things to go for. Although I guess... now too, once you get a few things that you want, looting doesn't continue to have validity since you keep the decent tools you got finally and they never break. If you got the mod schematics, then you just make a few mods. You can become a miner, but like he has stated... you can mine, but who cares. What are you going to make? You're going to play another game, or wait on a mod or something to fix this mess.

---- Why do the devs, or you, care how someone else plays the game when they are enjoying it? All of these descriptions of how new changes "forces" you to do things, is because they didn't want to play the game that way... and the game started as a survival sandbox with options. Now its a "play how we want you to or we'll take away stuff you like and you can just deal with it" game. ----

 

[Katitof]

But again, it's not balanced now. One way it's possible to get T6, the other way it isn't possible.

Not sure what you mean here. The only thing that isn't possible is if you never leave your base for at the very least trader visits.

You'd have to be extremely lucky to get T6 item before you can craft it, maybe not for basic items like pistols, clubs or basic armors, but anything requiring parts and being top tier? Its rather unlucky unless you're extremely... lucky looter.

Of course it's not impossible... whats your point? Are you saying its impossible to loot a T6 item before level 25?

That's exactly my point.

Both are possible.

One involves roulette that might or might not give you desired outcome, one involves reliable path that'll ALWAYS give you desired outcome.

Both are possible and both are viable.

You might not like how its balanced, but you can't deny its balanced with latest changes to scrapping and T6 crafting.

 

[Kalen]

Not sure what you mean here. The only thing that isn't possible is if you never leave your base for at the very least trader visits.You'd have to be extremely lucky to get T6 item before you can craft it, maybe not for basic items like pistols, clubs or basic armors, but anything requiring parts and being top tier? Its rather unlucky unless you're extremely... lucky looter.

That's exactly my point.

Both are possible.

One involves roulette that might or might not give you desired outcome, one involves reliable path that'll ALWAYS give you desired outcome.

Both are possible and both are viable.

You might not like how its balanced, but you can't deny its balanced with latest changes to scrapping and T6 crafting.

Wait, maybe you're misunderstanding.... you know you can't craft a T6 item, right? They removed that ability.

 

[Xanider2291]

You're not going to be sitting in your cave, never having to go out and get best gear that way.
You're not going to see learn by doing again.

You're not going to see craftable parts again.

Its a balance thing.

Devs want you to go out, because they have seen it as a problem in previous alphas that you never had to at certain point, so now you have to, deal with it.

You want to build everything just from sitting in a cave, microsoft is publishing a game for that, its lil more blocky, but its exactly what you want.

what a ♥♥♥♥ty community this game has. To tell them to go play another game rather than give suggestions. You're a ♥♥♥♥.