PC Isn't the enemy appearance in the blood moon of Ver.1.2 (b27) strange?

Jean_Roxas

Jean_Roxas

New member
Hello everyone and developers.

I was playing "Insane" on vanilla Ver.1.2 (b27) and noticed that the first blood moon was okay, but from the second time onwards, policemen and dire wolves start appearing.

At the second time, I was at around game stage 45 and my equipment was not very good, so I felt like I couldn't deal with it.
I don't mind a lot of them appearing.
It's good experience.
But last time, I got to the third time and a ton of policemen came and I couldn't deal with them.

If you die in the no death challenge with rules, you have to erase the map and start over, so it's tough.

Can you deal with this?

 
Heck i've had runs on default difficulty where i get 2 or 3 dire wolves on the first hoard night.  Although i've been running 150% exp, so i might be a slightly higher game stage during my first hoard.
 

 
I agree with YourMirror about dropping it down a notch...I just probably wouldn't have worded it that way lol.

If the lower setting doesn't fit then you can always pop up again to the next level.

 
There was also apparently an adjustment made to blood moon scaling where if you have your zombie count set high, instead of adding more zombies early on, it will instead add more difficult zombies. This is by design in that it accomplishes the increase in difficulty that players might be looking for during blood moons without sacrificing performance. I believe it balances out later on where you actually will start getting more and more zombies, though.

 
Syphon583 said:
I believe it balances out later on where you actually will start getting more and more zombies, though.
Click to expand...
From my understanding, this is backwards. Once you hit over 30 zeds by settings + progress, the number is capped at 30; instead the horde gamestage gets multiplied by the ratio of "proper number" / 30, so at 60 zeds your GS is doubled. Only goes up from there.

 
Thank you everyone.

Am I correct in thinking that the number of zombies in Blood Moon is directly related to the game stage of Blood Moon in addition to the difficulty?

My difficulty settings are

- Difficulty is Insane
- Blood Moon has 64 zombies

I've been doing this challenge since Alpha and am currently live streaming 365 days without dying, so I can't change the settings here.

If this is a temporary occurrence, I was thinking of waiting and seeing.

However, if this is a feature, I'll just keep trying.

 
As a reminder, here's what @faatal said:

"Bloodmoon parties (which is now players within 80m of any other player added to the party) now cap the amount of enemies spawned at one time to 30 (subject to change) to improve FPS. An 8 player group with the default setting of 8 per player, would have gotten 64 active enemies. To compensate for less enemies, the game stage increases based on the ratio. The game has global enemy caps and game stage maxAlive caps, but this helps with the specific case of FPS tanking during blood moons for a BM party."

 
I have a question regarding the configuration.

If you have 3 people playing simultaneously, each a minimum of 120 meters apart "N S W directions"
then they are considered not part of a party yes or no. Conceivably each player
could set 24 as the bloodmoon spawn quantity. If they then beeline to a central
prebuilt base, after the warning sound begins, basically there should be just
enough time to reach it, if their spawns start at approx 70 meters away.

My question is if they either party up then, or have pre-partied, will that override the
absolute 30 limit and render "72" 24 per player, or does the proximity to each other play the
deciding factor?

Just curious.

 
4sheetzngeegles said:
I have a question regarding the configuration.

If you have 3 people playing simultaneously, each a minimum of 120 meters apart "N S W directions"
then they are considered not part of a party yes or no. Conceivably each player
could set 24 as the bloodmoon spawn quantity. If they then beeline to a central
prebuilt base, after the warning sound begins, basically there should be just
enough time to reach it, if their spawns start at approx 70 meters away.

My question is if they either party up then, or have pre-partied, will that override the
absolute 30 limit and render "72" 24 per player, or does the proximity to each other play the
deciding factor?

Just curious.
Click to expand...


That far apart, they would not be in a party. IIRC, the radius for the "party" calculation is something like 30-50 meters. About the same distance as the horde spawn radius.

 
SylenThunder said:
IIRC, the radius for the "party" calculation is something like 30-50 meters.
Click to expand...
That faatal quote specifically mentions: "Bloodmoon parties (which is now players within 80m of any other player added to the party)", so 80m and it sounds like two players at ~160m need just one between them at 80m to make it one group. No idea where the zeds will spawn, hopefully some for each player.

Other than that, there's the question of "how dynamic is it?" Will it recalculate the groups at all over the night, and if it does, how often / when? Never, once per "wave", on a short timer? Some multiplayer testing would be needed, but I don't have friends (that I would bother with such things...) 😛 

 
I wasn't trying to be confusing in my question. I was curious to try to
understand the dynamics of horde generation. The thought came from this
and other like and unlike posts. The need for a server implies multiple
players, which leads into potential multiple group dynamics or factions.

Even with 8 players there is a numerous amount of multiple subsets that
can be formed. In the beginning it was more of a static group ideal. Meaning that
all 8 would be a single party. But as time has progressed and watching playthroughs,
has shown a progression, of (separate grouping subsets or factions  or parties) being formed.

Example: player 1 2 3 4 have 1 communal base, 5 6 have a base at least 80 meters from the first set,
and 7 8 in the same manner. So using the same coded calculations there are potentially 3 bloodmoon
spawns. Even if regulated to the 30 per party it still adds up to potentially 90. Unless there is a governor

or regulation imposed that all must domicile within a central location or base on horde night.

 
4sheetzngeegles said:
I wasn't trying to be confusing in my question. I was curious to try to
understand the dynamics of horde generation. The thought came from this
and other like and unlike posts. The need for a server implies multiple
players, which leads into potential multiple group dynamics or factions.

Even with 8 players there is a numerous amount of multiple subsets that
can be formed. In the beginning it was more of a static group ideal. Meaning that
all 8 would be a single party. But as time has progressed and watching playthroughs,
has shown a progression, of (separate grouping subsets or factions  or parties) being formed.

Example: player 1 2 3 4 have 1 communal base, 5 6 have a base at least 80 meters from the first set,
and 7 8 in the same manner. So using the same coded calculations there are potentially 3 bloodmoon
spawns. Even if regulated to the 30 per party it still adds up to potentially 90. Unless there is a governor

or regulation imposed that all must domicile within a central location or base on horde night.
Click to expand...
There are multiple zombie limits at play. In your scenario there will be no more than 30 zombies present around group A (players 1-4), 30 zombies around group B (players 5-6), and 30 zombies around group C (players 7-8). However, the maxAlive limit still applies too, which I believe is 64 if you don’t start modding the files. You can’t just shuffle people around to get more than the max zombies alive at once. The different limits can only decrease the number of simultaneous zombies.

 
The formular they implemented is the following:

 

group_maxalive = player_maxalive * player_count;
if ( group_maxalive > 30 )
{
scaling = sqrt ( group_maxalive / 30 ); // [1]
group_maxalive = 30;
}
else
scaling = 1;


horde_gamestage = group_gamestage * scaling;




[1] The applied root is 1.8, not 2. Thus something like: exp ( ln(x) / 1.8 )

You can get insane difficult hordes in the early game (demolishers in the first week), as long as you put the maxalive setting to 64 and invite friends (about 7 friends for the demolishers on day 7).
But, of course, only 30 enemies at the same time alive.

Of course, there are always ways to deal with such insanity - as when you play darkness falls at insane difficulty. It's just a little surprising if you have a group of players somewhat familiar with the historic game balance, being suddenly confronted with that bull@%$#. We really would have installed darkness falls and started that on insane if we would have had the desire for that nonsense.

 
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White-Gandalf said:
The formular they implemented is the following:

 

group_maxalive = player_maxalive * player_count;
if ( group_maxalive > 30 )
{
scaling = sqrt ( group_maxalive / 30 ); // [1]
group_maxalive = 30;
}
else
scaling = 1;


horde_gamestage = group_gamestage * scaling;




[1] The applied root is 1.8, not 2. Thus something like: exp ( ln(x) / 1.8 )

You can get insane difficult hordes in the early game (demolishers in the first week), as long as you put the maxalive setting to 64 and invite friends (about 7 friends for the demolishers on day 7).
But, of course, only 30 enemies at the same time alive.

Of course, there are always ways to deal with such insanity - as when you play darkness falls at insane difficulty. It's just a little surprising if you have a group of players somewhat familiar with the historic game balance, being suddenly confronted with that bull@%$#. We really would have installed darkness falls and started that on insane if we would have had the desire for that nonsense.
Click to expand...


It may be a bit trickier early game (I'm playing solo and got demolishers on the 3rd horde night), but as soon as you progress, horde nights will be even easier than what we had in 1.1. As I said in another thread: it should be a setting, not mandatory.

 
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They could have kept their hands off that nonsense, since the option to limit maxalive was always in the options menu - for everybody to access. The default setting (8) was even such that up to 4 players would have no more enemies alive than with the current nonsense. And people running servers with more than 4 guests - believe me, i'm a doctor - know for sure what they are doing.

But making a change that...

first, is undocumented,

second, is mentioned in a misleading way as far as it is mentioned at all,

third, is a completely @%$#ed up mess of intermingled things,

fourth, throws the game balance (for which the funpimps needed 13 years to find it, don't forget!) out of the window,

fifth, produces nothing than frustration for the players...

...well: such a thing they could have shoved into a place where the sun never shines.

 
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