PC Is stealth broke again? Also a19 is generally not fun. Various other things.

Ripflex said:
Scyris, there's a book perk, I think Stalker, that you make Zero sound over garbage.  And also a book perk, I think urban combat where you can jump over 1 block (or more if you have parkour) while you sneak.  Learn the game man.
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Both are Urban Combat volumes. No noise from sneaking over trash is vol. 3, Sneak jumping is vol. 4 (also reduces the sound you make when landing after dropping off of something while sneaking).

 
Ghostlight said:
[SIZE=15.68px]I am completely with you on this one. The game feels much more drab and dull than usual and I eventually realised it was because the loot is now generic and dull early game. Getting that fluky T3 Shotgun on day 2 was the little quirk that made every play through interesting, different and fun.[/SIZE]
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Yeah loot in A18 was the best it ever was, it didn't need to be changed espeically to the crap system they have now, it removed all randomness to a playthru, and every damn playthru is now the exact same loot wise in a19. Its made it extremly boring. As you said finding that random fluky pump shotgun or steel tool early by pure rng luck was happy times. Now? you know it'll never ever happen in loot. I do admit they could have tweaked the values in a18 so it was a little harder to get the higher tech stuff early. the rate you find 4-6 items was fine, they were rare, as most stuff regardless of GS was tier 1-3. This made finding that random tier 5 item a real happy event. But now? once your gs is around the midpoint to the next tier, or a little bit past mid EVERY Damn item is quality tier 5-6 in every single chest, its just stupid, its too easy to get quality 5-6 stuff in A19 and the loot is just too linear that its boring. Lets be honest here, who the hell is going to store a stone axe or stone shovel in those metal chests? you'd realistically expect to find guns or something actually of value in them.

I just hope they switch it for a20, hell they could even switch it for a19.1, just copy over the loot tables from a18 and add in the new items, like auto shotgun, desert vulture etc. Then again TFP has a habit of not really listening to players, and just doing what they want, they can be real hard-asses about certain things. Most players want learn by doing back, except maybe only for weapons and mining tools, yet they are being stuborne and refuse to do it for some inane reason. Instead we have this skill system that honestly imo is garbage, if the weapons were decoupled from stats i'd be fine with it. just have maybe a melee weapon and ranged weapon tree. While keep the rest of the perks (except weapon ones) out of the stats.

A mod I play darkness falls, uses learn by doing for weapons and mining tools, though crafting tier is convered by a level locked perk. The weapons perks though can be upped as you learn by doing and raise skill. Think you need 60 skill in the mod to be able to get level 5 of the perk, might be 80, its been a while.

hiemfire said:
Both are Urban Combat volumes. No noise from sneaking over trash is vol. 3, Sneak jumping is vol. 4 (also reduces the sound you make when landing after dropping off of something while sneaking).
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That just makes it sound like they put the trash piles there solely to justify that book now when I think about it. One of my fave books though is the urban combat one that removes all encumbrance from armor while in combat (and for about 20 seconds after it). Soon as your hit, or hit a zombie, you can move in that steel armor as if you had no armor, or padded which has no penalties.

 
Honestly its just like in earlier builds where EVERY SINGLE DOOR IN THE GAME was barricaded including bathroom and bed room doors in a house that already had barricaded windows and a front and back door. There is NO SENSE in half the things they have done at this point other than artificial difficulty. NO there is NO REASON there are trash piles in every single door way. ITs only meant to make it so that any players actually trying to play the game properly and stealth have to stop literally every 4 steps in some buildings and beat a trash pile. The fact that they did so also makes no sense in alot of cases because the buildings youre going through will be 100% intact, but for some odd reason have trash everywhere just to make a noise. Meanwhile IVE found this funny "glitch" that if your stealth is High enough and youre down to 2% or lower, every 3-4th step, your noise will kick up to near 10% for NO REASON. Meanwhile If youre stealth is high enough, you can fire a Magnum and some how not wake a zombie, yet the glass pile on the floor will..

 
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I'm remember that in A18 I could easily get to the point where I stomp through in full iron armor with a reinforced club and smash the crap out of everything with zero need for stealth at all. If necessary switch to my AK and mow down everything. Got even more comical in later game stages.

Perhaps tuning some of the difficulty settings would help you? I know setting loot to 50% has made a big difference in our A19 playthrough right now. We do find a load of ammo, but so far only a couple of blunderbusses. Armor is much harder to come by as well. Food is a challenge still (oddly not water, but I think this is because water and food needs degrade at the same rate which is very strange feeling).

Maybe its less about changes between versions, and more about customizing your world settings to give you the play experience you desire?

 
Stealth is broken in current build...
With latest patch I decided to play agility again after awhile. Invested 4 points into stealth, full padded armor with adv. Muffled mod in each piece of armor. No specific POI's are broken, but sometimes in same POI whole room wakes up for no reason, with my stealth meter down at only 3. Just did a clear tier 3 POI ( house old bungalow_11 - the one with a big underground tunnel/bunker system under a house and a shack ). Every floor I entered I just saw all the red dots started moving. 

So sneak wasn't working at all and it is broken in the current patch. At level 4 in sneaking and with The night stalker books - no noise when moving over trash - zombies still just wakes up for no reason and starts moving - like there is a trigger when zombies spawn in when you enter the area at the end, except it is happening in most of the POIs on every level.

 
For me it works as good as in A18. No skillpoints invested into stealth but as long as I don't walk over trash or glass on the floor distant zombies don't wake up and I can take out one after another with bow & arrows.

Takes a lot of time but is much fun I think :)

 
As far as I can tell, putting the muffled connectors in padded armor doesn't do anything. They don't have any sound penalty to begin with. The stealth boots are kind of a joke. You can only get them in t5 because you have to make them, and all they are is military boots with no sound penalty. Again, pointless to put muffled connectors in and not going to be as good of armor as t6 military boots with the muffled mod.

The reason that most of you are having mixed results comes down to a few things.

1. There are several POIs with what are called volume triggers. It doesn't matter if you have max sneak or not, you will trigger the zombies when you cross into the zone.

2. Light level makes a huge difference in how close you can get to the zombies before they wake up. Also if they are facing you or not seems to matter.

3. Sneak sprinting raises your noise level some. Try to make sure you are not holding the sprint key when you creep up on a sleeping zombie.

4. Walking over any sort of trash pile will make a lot of noise. At least until you get the book that makes that silent. As will jumping and falling until you get that book.

5. Shooting rapidly makes more noise. Try to avoid it.

6. Even silenced weapons are not totally silent. The pistols with a suppressor are pretty quiet. Not quiet enough that you can be standing next to a zombie and wake one up while shooting another. Choose which zombies you will shoot first more carefully if you can. Preferably closest first and try to be as far away as you can realistically get.

I have no problems clearing most POIs when I take that into consideration. Like I said though, some POIs will trigger the zombies no matter what. There is one of the fire stations that you cannot sneak in at all. There are a few other POIs that trigger zombies automatically if you step into the loot room.

I only wear padded armor BTW. I have crawled all the t5 POIs so far in A19 and I have not found one yet that I can't sneak kill every single enemy with a little luck depending on where they spawn. I wake one up occasionally but it has not been a real issue so far.

 
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As a long time player that uses stealth builds while on solo worlds, I'm having mixed results lately.  Even throwing stones to distract zeds is inconsistent. 

that being said, I almost never perk into stealth.  I slot muffle mods where I can, though.

 
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Scyris said:
I am asking because I have level 1 in the sneaking perk, full padded armor with 3 pieces with -8% sound in them, and zombies still seem to be able to hear me when I am sneaking from half a 20 block room away. Also, the a-hole move by the poi designers with putting glass or paper in front of every door in the path you have to take was not needed in the dungeon style poi's for one it breaks immersion as it makes NO damn sense why its ALWAYS in those spots. Stealth is useless enough as it is due to it just not seeming to work. Not to mention all the zombies in stupid places that seem to be put there specifically to screw stealth builds, as you cannot get a clear shot without aggroing them.. ever, nevermind the paper and glass in front of every single door on the maze's path.

I mean the zombies have some of the best hearing i've ever seen in a game that has stealth. Its just too good, if using full padded you should be able to get within 2-3 blocks at least without them waking up. In another game, again full padded armor so 0 extra sound from armor, and 3-4 pieces with -8% sound reducing mods+level 3 in the stealth perk, its still super easy for zombies to spot me. The aggro rooms should go to, everything in a room shouldn't just aggro because you walk past the door way, it completly breaks stealth builds and makes them useless. The last time stealth was good honestly was A16, its been pretty much garbage since.

Honestly, I may just drop the game for now till a20, its just not fun anymore what with stealth being compeltly broken from what I can tell, and the loot system being super boring as its the same every single game with 0 variance, its just not fun to play now. I really liked the loot randomness A17/18 had, no gaurnteed 5-6 quality items in every single box/chest, completly random whatt you got and mostly quality 1-3, with 4-6 being very rare even at high gamestage. A17 was pretty linear as you were shoehorned into stats since schematics weren't a thing then, this was fixed with a18, but kinda broken again with a19, as the randomness is gone, and all loot is completly linear. I much prefer a18's loot system as does most people, if you got lucky you could have steel tools on day 1, thats just the thing though its luck, however there is a problem with the loot system as a whole i'll go into detail below.

The main problem with loot also is the fact that every single dungeon style poi has a loot chest at the end, this makes it far to easy to find things. Its much worse in a19 with how super linear all the loot is, you know your never going to find anything of value for sure depending on what gamestage your at. IMO the loot chest should only have a 10% chance to spawn, maybe 20% max in each poi, do that then put back a18-style loot.

The dungeon style poi's, Ok some poi's should be like this, maybe a very few of them, but seriously? almost every one? what the hell kind of world does this game take place in where every little house is setup like a maze? Barricaded doors make sense, but the way every poi just about is a preset maze is kinda silly. In A17 when this was new, I loved the idea, but in A19 with the garbage loot system, stealth being seemingly busted, and poi's being designed to screw stealth builds anyway possible due to spawns that never have a clear shot and you cannot get one with waking up the room, or the whole room waking up second you walk in system no matter how high stealth is. Its just a bad combo. I mostly loot poi's thru trader quests so I can double dip, 1 on the loot chest 1 for the turn in at trader. I usually never purposfully loot a poi twice using the quest to reset it, personal choice, some do it, I don't just like I don't junk turret cheese, I never use them period except on horde nights as static defense.

I do like the new graphics though, but seriously, less work needs to be done on graphics now and more on improving things that are broken, like the poor loot system in a19, stealth and the stuff specifically set there to screw stealth builds over, the dungeon style poi's honestly need to go or be made super rare and only specific poi's.

Don't get em wrong usually I have little issues with most alphas but this one just seems like ugh, so many things done/gone wrong.

P.s. props to you if you read this far, I know reading is hard for some people who have the attention span of a gnat people tend to have these days.
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Stealth seems to be working for me not sure what your doing wrong, and the trash and glass brake it or dont complain, for the loot system its ok, if you dont like it  you can make a mod that uses the loot system of a18. 

 
That trash. It was always there. Before those books even existed in game. Stealth is not working as it should, way too many POI´s where they just wake up no matter how silent you are and how many perks or books you have. But that is not stealth itself that doesn´t work, it´s a problem with the sleeper volumes.

 
Scyris said:
The main problem with loot also is the fact that every single dungeon style poi has a loot chest at the end, this makes it far to easy to find things. Its much worse in a19 with how super linear all the loot is, you know your never going to find anything of value for sure depending on what gamestage your at. IMO the loot chest should only have a 10% chance to spawn, maybe 20% max in each poi, do that then put back a18-style loot.

The dungeon style poi's, Ok some poi's should be like this, maybe a very few of them, but seriously? almost every one?
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I completely agree, with the terribly linear loot starting with items what shouldnt even be there we get these classic rpg style dungeons where each bigger place has these big chests for you to get what you can almost always can guess what will be inside.

Its no fun when i know exactly what will come, where it is and how to get it the fastest.

 
I can confirm stealth is a bit broken and this is even with the book perks to help your stelth.  Plus TFP Scripted instant spawning "sleeping" hordes triggered by proxy like in the attic and other scipted pois just 100 % unfair to maxxed out stealth characters that are automtically seen.

 
Ripflex said:
I can confirm stealth is a bit broken and this is even with the book perks to help your stelth.  Plus TFP Scripted instant spawning "sleeping" hordes triggered by proxy like in the attic and other scipted pois just 100 % unfair to maxxed out stealth characters that are automtically seen.
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Like I said, the devs keep trying to screw stealth players over, just like they removed many other choices, like if I wanna hide in a hole on blood moon night I should damn well be allowed to if I want to, its my choice, but no, they had to take that choice away. Main reason I made underground bases was not to avoid the horde, its the crappy SI system, and the fact that putting 1 block over the limit can cause your ENTIRE build to cascade and come down, instead of just dropping ONLY the most recent block. I never build bases anymore, as its way to easy to collapse them by accdient. I now just take over poi's that have at least stone walls. the brown church with no fence is a good one, remove the back stairs, board up the back entrance, and the zombies will path and always come in the front if you leave it open. My day 7 horde in that poi I literally sit there behind 1 layer of cobblestone and melee the zombies to death, they can't do enough to it fast enough that I can't easy out repair their dps on it. with 5 str+ a baseball bat (can make a tier 4 by then), female zombies down in 2 head shots, males 2 head 1 body shot for the normals, a bit more for fatties. This'll change though once higher GS zombies and such show, but i've done the day 14 horde the same way in a19 as well, just sitting behind 1 layer. Haven't really gotten to day 21 horde yet, as I am usually falling asleep playing around day 14, due to just 0 fun in looting anymore.

I want a18 style looting back, where you can get lucky and find steel stuff on day 1 if your luck is good, and quality 4-6 stuff was very rare even at high GS, so it made crafting worth it. I miss that pure rng funkiness where you find something really nice in the first few days, thats just not a thing anymore in a19, as they made loot completly linear, not to mention its way to easy to get quality 5-6 items in A19, they drop out of literally every box/container like candy once your GS is a bit past tthe mid point for that tier. Like I said in another thread I  hope in one of the a19.x patches they go back to a18 loot style and add the new stuff in, cuz the current system, in a19 is garbage, and has ruined the game for many players. I hear most of a19 complaints so far being about the new loot system, either that or food, cuz people suck at the game and do not wanna try to learn how to do it.

 
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