PC Is ignoring game content the only option?

I have a question for those who think that quest rewards are overpowered. What rewards would you expect for a T4, T5 or T6 quest?

In the past, especially with T5 quests, people have complained that the rewards are not worth the time and resources. Especially when you play primarily with firearms, you use a lot of ammo.
I find all quests to be way too easy, so for me, anything like: scrap armors, iron tools, books which is so annoyingly needed all the time, ammo, a stack of good food, a stack of clean water, etc. The fact that I could in theory complete any quest using nothing but knuckles and bows by simply using well known exploits should say something about what the rewards should actually be.

 
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I have a question for those who think that quest rewards are overpowered. What rewards would you expect for a T4, T5 or T6 quest?

In the past, especially with T5 quests, people have complained that the rewards are not worth the time and resources. Especially when you play primarily with firearms, you use a lot of ammo.
More crafting mags, more ammo, maybe some of the non-weapon/tool bundles (although you'd probably want to make another version of the ammo crafting bundle for T4+ quests).  Maybe more dukes.  Heck, make T5+ quests always give you 2 rewards, and if you've got max Daring Adventurer you get 3. 

The fact of the matter is, though, that the jump from T4 to T5 POIs is so great (not in difficulty, necessarily, but in time required) that I don't know that you can have a worthwhile reward from a T5 unless you nerf the heck out of the rewards from T4 down.  Maybe make T4 and below not able to give you weapons/tools, T5 give Q1-3 items, and T6 give Q4-6 items.  I still wouldn't bother doing T6's (or non-infested T5s) but I imagine other people would.

 
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More crafting mags, more ammo, maybe some of the non-weapon/tool bundles.  Maybe more dukes.  Heck, make T5+ quests always give you 2 rewards, and if you've got max Daring Adventurer you get 3. 

The fact of the matter is, though, that the jump from T4 to T5 POIs is so great (not in difficulty, necessarily, but in time required) that I don't know that you can have a worthwhile reward from a T5 unless you nerf the heck out of the rewards from T4 down.  Maybe make T4 and below not able to give you weapons/tools, T5 give Q1-3 items, and T6 give Q4-6 items.  I still wouldn't bother doing T6's (or non-infested T5s) but I imagine other people would.
This is actually the opposite that just about everyone here is asking for, which shows very well that people have very different expectations of the game and not everyone can be pleased with any choices the devs make.  You want more from the quest rewards, while most people posting want less.  Though most who want less are focused more on the earlier game so might not care about tier 4+ rewards.

I agree with you in part - tier 5 quests have a time commitment that makes a lesser reward not worth the effort for many people.  Especially if you're new to the game.  It used to take me at least 45 minutes real time to complete a tier 5 and usually about 1 1/2 hours when I first started playing.  Once I figured out the game, I dropped those numbers by close to half.  I can't remember the last time it took me over 30-45 minutes or so to complete a tier 5.  Granted, I don't scrap everything I find and only loot containers.  But it's still a lot longer than earlier tiers and the rewards don't have a similar jump in value to compensate.  **I haven't yet come across the two prisons, so I can't comment on time to complete those yet.

On the other hand, I really don't care about the rewards.  If it offers me something better than I have, sure... I'll take it.  But at least in A21, I rarely see anything worth much to me.  Most of the time, I end up grabbing the magazine bundle and the forged steel (yes, I have DA maxed just because I like taking 2 rewards just in case I can't make up my mind).  Granted, if the rewards were better, I might be more interested.  But at the same time, I don't really need better rewards.  I get plenty from loot during the quest.

I suppose a compromise of better rewards at tier 4/5/6 and less rewards at tier 1/2/3 would be possible.  It could be an improved scaling system where you get less in the early tiers and more in the late tiers but I don't know if that would really work all that well.  As far as dukes, though... we definitely don't need more money.  We get so much already that it's not really worth anything.

I find all quests to be way too easy, so for me, anything past scrap armors or iron tools is probably a bit overkill. The fact that I could in theory complete any quest using nothing but knuckles and bows by simply using well known exploits should say something about what the rewards should actually be.
This I can absolutely agree with.  POIs are really not challenging once you know them.  I haven't done the prisons yet since I haven't found them, so those may be different.  But all others I've done are easy after seeing what to expect.  The only real way to change that at this point is to have higher difficulty settings to choose from or impose your own limitations on what you can use.  I don't really see them coming up with a new way to challenge players in quests and POIs this close to gold.  Bandits are unlikely to offer any real challenge and I honestly am not looking forward to having them in the game, though I wouldn't mind being surprised and liking them.

Also, 7D2D is the "Survival Horde Crafting Game", so some crafting should be expected.
And they made an attempt to make crafting more used with the magazine system.  It actually is being used by more people now than in A20, I think.  And I think that's why there are so many complaints related to it.  More people are using it because magazines helped direct people toward crafting but that just made the flaws of the crafting system all the more apparent.  They clearly want people to craft, so suggesting that they aren't interested in making crafting viable is not accurate.  The problem is the crafting system in this game is really bad and their adjustments to it aren't working.  At least, not up to this point.  I doubt making crafting keep up with everything else is going to really get people crafting much more because they'll just see even more how much crafting isn't worth it.  They need to start by finding a way to make crafting actually worthwhile before worrying about balancing the progression of it, imo.  And that doesn't mean they nerf loot even more.  It means finding a way to make it interesting or make it so you can craft things you can't loot or buy (I'm not talking about tier 6 stuff) or something else.  I really don't expect much there, though.

 
A solution could be for traders to not give out any quest rewards above tier 3 or 4, and for them to sell high-tier gear for a considerably higher price. That way you could still get useful gear through quest rewards, and still have good reasons to save up some dukes, but it wouldn't kick crafting in the balls.   

 
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A solution could be for traders to not give out any quest rewards above tier 3 or 4, and for them to sell high-tier gear for a considerably higher price. That way you could still get useful gear through quest rewards, and still have good reasons to save up some dukes, but it wouldn't kick crafting in the balls.   


That's basically what I did with my trader mod.  Removed quest rewards (for all tiers and tier completion), boosted the price of items with quality, and increase time for restocking.  I also reduced the open time of the traders.  I did a flat boost to dukes since I removed the rewards (10%) but nothing too OP.  I went the route that the quests are really jobs that the traders are asking you to do so paying you for completing the job, not giving away free merchandise.

 
- Oh great, another one who makes assumptions about ppl making assumptions.

- You also assume they're all having fun enjoying the game, but sure, I'll give you that one, they can't all be miserable.

- "No other game out there can easily be changed" well, that's laughably wrong in so many ways. I guess you never played one of the thousands of Minecraft modpacks, a lot of which drastically changes the entire game? Hell, even Skyrim and Fallout 4 has more game changing mods than this game.

One of the major problems with your argument is that while this game can be modded quite a bit, each new update breaks all those mods which is why there's so few mods all the time. These devs refuse to just finish making the game because they can't ever make up their minds about anything they do.
*Searches carefully for any assumption made other than that people are out there actually enjoying the game...*  Having played many, many hours of Skyrim and Fallout 4, I know very well how easily they are MODDED as finished games.... GOLD games.  I've played quite a few hours of Minecraft, as well... with my grandkids.  The mods are, well... whatever.  Even my grandkids no longer want anything to do with the newest versions.  I have NOT, however, noted a vast number of ways to change gameplay 'settings' in any of these or to personalize the game in the way that 7 Days allows.

Updates and alpha builds are a bit different for 7 Days which, if I'm given to understand what the word 'alpha' means, it's NOT a completed game.  Having played lots and lots of mods with this game, I will state that my argument has no problem since, while modders do indeed have to update their mods with every new alpha, it's NOT A COMPLETED GAME!  They know what they're signing on to when they create their mods.  Yet, the developers do their best to give them the tools needed to update the mods.  Even our crotchety, lovely, talented Khaine acknowledges that! It's not a perfect thing, but it's better than anything else out there and I challenge anyone to find otherwise and go play it.

 
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I have a question for those who think that quest rewards are overpowered. What rewards would you expect for a T4, T5 or T6 quest?

In the past, especially with T5 quests, people have complained that the rewards are not worth the time and resources. Especially when you play primarily with firearms, you use a lot of ammo.


How about putting some of the rewards "wealth" into chests of a tier5 instead of the trader reward? I mean if a tier5 is say 5 times as long as a tier1 why are there not 5 times as many valuable boxes lying around on the way through the POI?

And how about simply removing tiered items from the rewards or making them appropriate to your level? You can always select the money or ammo instead.

Currently the trader is the central reason for the game not having a working crafting game and a progression that everyone can easily jump over.

 
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That's basically what I did with my trader mod.  Removed quest rewards (for all tiers and tier completion), boosted the price of items with quality, and increase time for restocking.  I also reduced the open time of the traders.  I did a flat boost to dukes since I removed the rewards (10%) but nothing too OP.  I went the route that the quests are really jobs that the traders are asking you to do so paying you for completing the job, not giving away free merchandise.
That sounds excellent. Have you considered doing it in a kind of modular way? Like, giving options to not removing quest rewards, adjusting the time for restocking according to your preferences, etc., and being able to do that in the menu? Is that possible?

 
And how about simply removing tiered items from the rewards or making them appropriate to your level? You can always select the money or ammo instead.
Tying the rewards to the loot stage would not be a bad idea. Maybe with a bonus based on quest level and quest type.

Currently the trader is the central reason for the game not having a working crafting game and a progression that everyone can easily jump over.
Crafting skills are independent of player level or game stage. It solely depends on how many magazines you have read for each skill. Therefore, it is difficult to balance this with the trader level or the loot level.

 
Tying the rewards to the loot stage would not be a bad idea. Maybe with a bonus based on quest level and quest type.

Crafting skills are independent of player level or game stage. It solely depends on how many magazines you have read for each skill. Therefore, it is difficult to balance this with the trader level or the loot level.


I can't be sure of that but my impression is that crafting skills and looting are somewhat balanced right now. There are some problems with magazines not dropping at the same frequency but that is an "internal" problem of the magazine setup, once that is fixed I think the balance between crafting and looting will just work.

 
Tying the rewards to the loot stage would not be a bad idea.
Wasteland traders, tier one quests, here I come! :) When taken to the extreme, of course. It's a hard thing to get right.

Crafting skills are independent of player level or game stage.
Hmm, I'm not optimistic for vanilla, but could it be separated entirely into its own branch, somehow? As in, you would actually have to work towards crafting separate from the quest loop. Something that would give crafters the option to pursue their craft, and leave the trader-spamming for those who enjoy it. LBD is a simple example, but no-one liked really liked the tool-spamming parts of it..

Separate tradesmen with craft-quests? Lots of work for the feature for sure, but .. hmm. Might also roll nicely with normal questing being mostly about dukes, and then maybe having specific quests with item rewards; preferably rewards shown on start, so you can choose to do the grind or not and have a known reward in the end.

 
Wasteland traders, tier one quests, here I come! :) When taken to the extreme, of course. It's a hard thing to get right.
Since the gamestage is also higher in the Wasteland in A21 and not only the lootstage, this shouldn't be a problem.

At least as long as the T1 quests are also in the Wasteland.

 
I can't be sure of that but my impression is that crafting skills and looting are somewhat balanced right now. There are some problems with magazines not dropping at the same frequency but that is an "internal" problem of the magazine setup, once that is fixed I think the balance between crafting and looting will just work.
That just means you'll find enough magazines to keep up with the lootstage.

But let's say you stopped looting for a while and started building a big base instead, you would still level up and your lootstage would increase, but your crafting skills would stay the same.

Or you might get lucky and get multiple Crack a Book POIs as quests. Then your crafting skills will increase quickly, but your lootstage will not increase as quickly.

That's what I mean by independent. If you play roughly the way the developers intended, it may seem balanced, but if you don't, the crafting skills and the loot stage drift apart.

 
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There has to be a better solution than being told play 40 minutes and ignore most of the game content otherwise you make crafting gear, weapons and tools pointless.


There is.

Uninstall and play something else. And give feedback on why, as you already have.

On the trader, i share your opinion.

On mods, no, i am not going to touch them until The Fun Pimps decide to add in steam workshop support , even though i belive some of the mods

are quite good, but that's another topic entirely. But that is for you to decide, not me.

Games are entertainment, and if they are not entertaining, no reason to play them.

I call it burned out when every little detail feels like a reason to not play a game. And instead of wasting time thinking about negative aspects, i suggest uninstall.

Can always reinstall if needed.

 
That just means you'll find enough magazines to keep up with the lootstage.

But let's say you stopped looting for a while and started building a big base instead, you would still level up and your lootstage would increase, but your crafting skills would stay the same.

Or you might get lucky and get multiple Crack a Book POIs as quests. Then your crafting skills will increase quickly, but your lootstage will not increase as quickly.

That's what I mean by independent. If you play roughly the way the developers intended, it may seem balanced, but if you don't, the crafting skills and the loot stage drift apart.


So sometimes (big base build) your crafting will get behind, sometimes your crafting will be in front of looting (multiple crack a book). Add to this that there is also the randomness of what magazines you find many or few of and that you have ways to search for specific magazines or places with many magazines. In short, sometimes looting is ahead and sometimes crafting is ahead. Perfect. As perfect as it can get in this game of many degrees of freedom generally.

 
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How about putting some of the rewards "wealth" into chests of a tier5 instead of the trader reward? I mean if a tier5 is say 5 times as long as a tier1 why are there not 5 times as many valuable boxes lying around on the way through the POI?


Interesting approach.  Right now, this is what you can expect when comparing the T1  chest to the T5 hardened chest:

  • Ammo - T1 gets 1 pick (small ammo group), T5 gets 5 picks from large ammo group
  • Weapon / Armor - T1 gets 1 pick, T5 gets 2 picks
  • Medical - T1 picks between First Aid bandages, kits, or food, T5 picks only from Kits
  • Mods -T1 has a pick from either mods or early Books / Schematics, while T5 gets a guaranteed pick
  • Books / Schematics - T1 has a pick from either mods or early Books / Schematics, while T5 gets a guaranteed pick scaled on player level
  • Bonus Items group - T1 has no bonus groups, while T5 has two bonus groups - one is a bundle
  • Cash and Prizes (Prizes being silver, gold, or diamonds) -Only the T5 in this example has this pick


Also, don't T5's normally have more of the crate / bags / safes lootable containers as compared to a T1?  

Its learning by doing, but without any of the positives and all of the negatives. I have no idea who thought this would be a good idea.


I been enjoying the new crafting system, personally.  Even taking it further by adding in the unlocks for the mods into the various crafting branches along with removing the unlocks from Perk books and rolling them into those.

 
Maybe it could work like this:

The first trader offers you tier1 quests (obviously).

When you have completed enough, you get to tier 2 and have the first open trade routes,

both traders will give you tier 2 quests.

Then you have to complete enough tier2 quests for both traders, to get the third trader...then everybody gives you tier 3s, and you have to complete enough for all of them to get to tier 4...and so on.

This would slow down tier progression, and therefore also you will get the good stuff later.

It also would somewhat add to immersion (like the traders all have to "agree" that you're ready for the next step)

And it would end the "I have to start over at tier1 for every new trader" thing, which I think is a bad concept anyway. 

 
That is the crux of the issue for me. I have to skip more and more content that I don't like. I do this with mods to fix and or cut out said content. The problem is it's taking more and more mods to fix the game for me, to the point I have given up.

 
Slow down questing, slow down resource gathering, ignore traders. Basically the feed back from people is ignore game content, stop playing like a normal player would. What normal player doesn't do more than 1 quest per day until they reach tier 4 or 5s which can easily take 30+ minutes to do and by that time the rewards outpace anything you can craft not to mention the loot you can find. 

So far each alpha has put more emphasis into the traders and their quests. While the whole nerf to secret stash helped out some it seems that instead it was moved into quests and negates the entire progression system of the magazines. 
I have 4200 hours in this game and have never seen tier 5 of trader quests personally. I've never enjoyed the quest grinding system of this game personally. The changes this alpha have made the rewards way too OP imo. I think I would be happier if the only reward from quests were dukes and then the traders themselves just had better inventory.

 
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