PC In defence of something good - that's all it's about...

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Bubbahotetp

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I can't speak for everybody but I think I can make a valid point in pointing out that generally nobody who is filing complaints about the big concept changes in a17 is coming here out of nowhere. To these people, me included, a16 was their baby! You pimps should take some pride in that, because that's what we're all defending, defending something you accomplished earlier!

Again, emphasis: nobody really is coming to this forum from not having played the game and bashing it - no, all of these people I'm talking about are standing up in defence of something you created - a16, a versatile, fun, living, breathing game baby.

The changes are coming as a shock because too many core game concepts have changed. As I told a friend earlier, it's like I'm going to bed, hugging and cuddling my wife and I notice she's pretty hairy. In shock I rise and turn on the light, only to find out - next to me in bed is her dad!

Or let me put it another way - J.K. Rowling writes 6 books about a little wizard kid at Hogwarts and 20min into book 7 she drags him into a regular boarding school - because "Potter was never supposed to be a wizard, he's going to grow up like any regular boy! If you don't like it, you don't have to buy the following books!" (Disclaimer: Not an actual fan of HP)

Or is anybody sad that John McCain died? Or Anthony Bourdain? Or R Lee Ermey? Or f* Stan Lee?? I bet they had their flaws, but we didn't want them dead.

It's time for Christmas... happy players buy others a lot of games. I usually do. Let's hope the pimps can fix some of the big flaws that bother many of the old school players, before it's time for the Merry Christmas shopping!

Keep that a16 baby alive by at least transplanting some vital organs into hairy dad (he lacks a heart and spirit for example)!

That's that though, people are frustrated because the successes weren't followed up on, a lot of things that were done right are gone and that's what they, us, we are defending. That should be worth something...

 
We went through this same cycle when A16 was released. There were some fundamental changes between A15 and A16. Some people did not like the changes and lobbied the fun pimps hard to go back to the way A15 did things. For example, A16 got rid of spam-crafting. A lot of people hated this. A lot of people complained that night time was boring because there was nothing to do. Spam-crafting did not return. Some people are still upset about this. If you want to maximize the likelihood that TFP will take your concerns to heart, I'd recommend clearly explaining how you play, clearly explaining why you don't like the current mechanics, and offering an alternative. Arguing my analogy isn't going to get you anywhere nor is claiming that you represent the player base. This is not debate club and you and your friends views are not representative of the entire player base. That said if what you are looking for is a fundamental change to the framework of A17, it's not going to happen.

 
I indeed was shocked. But after some time playing, I find it kind of normalizing. There are lots of things a little different but it's not that bad. The only things that has really changed in my game is that I have died many more times than I did in a16.

 
What you are saying basically is, that you don't want progress anymore in the development of this game, right? A16 for all time and why not fully release the game as it was in A16?

I can imagine that TFP will make some few changes because of the feedback, but they won't "undo" A17. There are some things I would like to be changed a bit (for example the stamina cap depending on hunger, higher block damage with mining tools, higher headshot damage by firearms, reducing the level requirement of forges), but overall I think it is a good and important update. A good framework for future updates.

And remember, it still is in early access, so you could expect big changes. 7D2D had big changes in the past, and always a lot of people complained. This didn't stop TFP from doing these changes.

 
I'm trying to imagine the HP books being "experimental" with Rowling crowdsourcing ideas for the books. Instead, it turns out that she wrote the books that she wanted to write and that she thought would be good.

I can only hope that TFP sticks with what they want. In the end, like HP, it may not be for everybody. Oh well.

 
This is not debate club and you and your friends views are not representative of the entire player base.
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I find this always interesting. So why vote? Your voice doesn't represent all voters' voices! See where I'm going with this?

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I'm trying to imagine the HP books being "experimental" with Rowling crowdsourcing ideas for the books. Instead, it turns out that she wrote the books that she wanted to write and that she thought would be good.
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That would be kind of odd and is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about fundamental changes to the concept.

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What you are saying basically is, that you don't want progress anymore in the development of this game, right?
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Not saying that. Read my posts again.

 
We went through this same cycle when A16 was released. There were some fundamental changes between A15 and A16. Some people did not like the changes and lobbied the fun pimps hard to go back to the way A15 did things. For example, A16 got rid of spam-crafting.
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What I am not liking is fundamental concept changes to the game. I am not against bug fixing and expanding/adding to the existing concept that we've had basically since the game's inception. What I am reacting to is that things change that have actually worked and which were liked by a representative amount of players, me included of course. Your example of spam crafting is a minor change to the game, a straw man argument. You could as well have said "So you don't like that they changed the texture of the grass?" Think before you type, please.

No, nothing I will say will bring any of stuff back that I've referred to in other posts but I can still be here voicing my frustration over it because the very very least I can do, is to let people know I don't like it! If I can't then why are even you here telling me this? Because if what I say doesn't matter in the least, then what you say doesn't matter in the least either.

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I find this always interesting. So why vote? Your voice doesn't represent all voters' voices! See where I'm going with this?
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That would be kind of odd and is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about fundamental changes to the concept.

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Not saying that. Read my posts again.
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Oh and before you misquote me on this - I'm not saying what the pimps are dong is up for a vote. Whatever...

 
The thing is, taking an alpha build and getting too attached to it is not a good idea. The game is in development, which means that each build is gonna change the game a lot.

The same thing is going to happen with A18. Everyone will get used to A17, and A18 is probably gonna change the rules and the systems again to adapt to whatever they add or reconsider for the game.

Just imagine when bandits and survivors get added. The rules are gonna change completely.

 
I get where you are coming from, there are several things that are more simplified, and while that is not always worse or better, in this case, I feel like it makes those aspect a bit more boring. Like quality only affecting durability. Of course you have mods and skills affecting damage, but this means crafting and loot quality skills are pretty worthless (which are in different trees even). So now you need mods and skills to get your stuff to do more damage...okay I get that, but I don't see why you couldn't also have a small 5-10% damage boost per level for quality, it would give a reason to pump up that intelligence, other than skills. In fact, you can also pump up other things like attack speed, spread, etc...just enough to be noticable to the player. Just as some examples.

Further, mining has become a chore. I mean at the beginning it has always been a chore, but for some reason it seems more so now at the beginning, I think it is because you spend so much time resting, even with some perks for stamina, it doens't really get better until much higher level. Even at higher levels without any mods on your tools, they are nigh worthless for mining. I did a test where I was maxed out, without mods on a steel pick, and it still took four hits per stone block. Adding a bit of quality level bonus would help with that.

That leads to another issue and that is XP. It seems the only real way to level up is by killing zombies, which forces players to play the game a certain way, rather then the way they like. I played with a guy who loved to just mine and base build for a long time and help defend the base when the horde came, that was his cup of tea, playing as a team, that was fine with me, but without shared kill XP sent out to 10K he wouldn't level up half as much, because he gets so little and so slowly. If he were in single player, it would be even worse.

Here's the thing, I love what A17 has done overall, and much of these issue can be done with modlets, which is fine with me, but I can understand people who have issues with vanilla A17 and want some things changed to be more granular or make more sense (like mining gives you levels in a mining skill).

 
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What I am not liking is fundamental concept changes to the game. I am not against bug fixing and expanding/adding to the existing concept that we've had basically since the game's inception. What I am reacting to is that things change that have actually worked and which were liked by a representative amount of players, me included of course. Your example of spam crafting is a minor change to the game, a straw man argument. You could as well have said "So you don't like that they changed the texture of the grass?" Think before you type, please.
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I think a fair amount of people would disagree with you that moving from improving crafting from a "learn by doing" model to a skill/perk points model was a "minor change." A fair amount of people did not like the skills that moved from "learn by doing" to skill/perk points in the transition from A15 to A16. A17 is just a continuation of that trend of moving entirely away from "learning by doing" to attributes and perks. The reality is that your vision for the game is not necessarily the same as TFP. All you can do is state what you don't like and why and move on.

 
Lucky for the OP they can still stay on A16 if they choose.
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*Hands over a very well shaped piece of granite*

Here, with your comment you win guardianship of Frederick for one day.

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Going from A16 to a hairy father to Harry Potter to Anthony Bourdain.

Hold on. Let me put on my seatbelt first.

 
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