PC If you want looting to stay important...

I for one feel that looting and scrapping hundreds of junk pieces of loot before seeing one good piece is much less desirable than having to replace pieces of gear eventually...

As for random stats keeping us looking for new gear...this far the differences (aside from mod slots) have been so minor that I really don't care about them.

I do realize many things can be modded but, for one, I don't really have the time or inclination to sit here and mod my way back to A15 (with weapon mods). Clearly this is an uphill battle if MM is against it, but man it feels like we are taking a strange route to keeping looting relevant, when it honestly just became less relevant in A17.

 
Well, with crafting not being worth the points(spread too thin), and the amount of parts required for the good gear to be found BY looting already... looting is by far the main objective.

 
Well, with crafting not being worth the points(spread too thin), and the amount of parts required for the good gear to be found BY looting already... looting is by far the main objective.
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Remember that crafting isn't all you're spending points for. It is also mastery and bonuses for using the weapon or tool and not just to be able to craft a higher quality of it.

 
that's sad that item degradation is considered bad (I mean its 100% realistic, just sped up because we would use tools daily and days are only 60-120 minutes long)
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But back then I could just craft a new steel pickaxe. Now, the character needs premade parts to craft something as advanced *cough* as a pickaxe (or a baseball bat).

 
I'm torn. If it would be done well, it could be good. But I dont want to risk a degradation system I dont like which may indeed make the game worse.

Same with food spoilage. I would only like it if very well done, so I prefer not to risk it.

And I cant even explain what well done means. I just know that in most games I dont like such systems, but in some, they are good features.

 
I think the best and simplest idea that I read was that with each repair the max durability drops a bit until eventually the item can’t be repaired for any durability or in other words it is broken beyond the ability to make field repairs. But it doesn’t change quality or stats.
The level five perk for each weapon type could then include the ability to fix that particular item back to 100% at a workbench.

So most items will eventually wear out and need to be replaced but your specialty item can be restored.

Madmole claims that the random stats will keep players looking for replacements without the need for entropy but I think the game gets interesting when my best tool is gone and I have to downgrade for a time until I can find or craft another epic one.

But you all realize we are sharing mod ideas right? Item degradation is never going back in the base game. It’s our cup of tea but Madmole’s gallon of piss— as well as several others’ who chimed in on this thread. It’s definitely like food spoilage: not universally loved by a long shot...lol
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My issue with that as I said in another thread is who is goin to let it get that low? Once it gets half way down or so it will get put in a box because who is going to use repair kits to only be able to get idk a few minutes out of it before it needs yet another repair kit. For me it then becomes to much of micromanaging and I would either have a box full of tools/weapons that wait to get fixed 100% or scrap them/sell them.

I don't mind the system but with the way it is set up right now with tool parts along with other things it would become tedious and annoying. Realistic or not it is a game that already beyond realistic and l like how MM said once fun out weighs realistic in a game every time.

With that said if the system comes back I would honestly prefer it to drop from T5 to T4 to T3 and so on and the stats change when it drops It would keep me looting/crafting and I can use those parts toward one I can craft then. But even then it still make that awesome find not fill all the awesome anymore. Just my opinion as we all have them. ;)

 
I agree, (however I know MM does not) that the item should drop quality level, but not a 100% chance. Maybe like 50% chance with a skill that modifies repairing.

I'm not making the degradation appeal for realism purposes, as most people are assuming...I'm making the case because it will improve the looting game. I dont see how degradation was ever really "tedious" either. You have to balance the time a player is required to do certain things, helping reduce burnout. Looting nonstop to find a purple is going to create burnout, because that will be the primary goal of the game.

You think its gonna be fine when loot is dropped down right now, but wait til you have looted that 100th quality 1 or 2 weapon to scrap, and you are just tired of looting junk, so you lose interest in looting altogether.

 
In any game where there is loot, there will always be a time when people 'get tired of looting'. Randomized bonus stats help reduce this, but eventually you either get the best possible roll...or close enough to not care.

Having items degrade doesn't fix this, nor does it change it. What it does is make the beginning harder (when loot is already scarce or you are still looking for something decent in the type you want), before you have the points to mitigate the degradation or the stores of loot to ignore it. Your skilled and experienced players will be able to manage the early game and will not be effected in endgame, but your less experienced players will really struggle.

I've played mods that used degradation, and I hated them. It made me not bother with 'better' tools, I just made level 1 stone ones, used them until they broke, then made a new one. It felt dumb, it felt wasteful, it was not fun.

There are TONS of stuff in this game that aren't realistic. Most people don't game because they want a truly realistic experience. We game because we want to have fun, and we want to challenge ourselves. What that means is different for each person, but a solid game needs to be able to cater to more than just one style of play. A game like this has to be able to handle both solo players and organized groups (who split their skills among multiple people). It has players who want to build, players who want to explore, players who want to kill. There seems to be just as many people who prefer to find their loot as those who want to craft it, and so those have to be balanced. It's not easy!

 
The thing is, item degradation DID fix this for ME in previous alphas, items degraded up to A17 I think? I had hundreds of hours on the same map, and continued looting guns and parts, because when night came, it was too dangerous to run around, so i hid and crafted and combined parts to make new guns. Stocked my armory.

This kept looting guns/parts relevant endlessly. It just seems for some, if you are not shooting and looting you aren't having fun. That is just not the basic this game was created around. This is a new concept, and those of us who loved the old game are not happy with the rug being pulled out from under us.

This game has always been closer to minecraft than borderlands, but the scale is sliding now.

 
Remember that crafting isn't all you're spending points for. It is also mastery and bonuses for using the weapon or tool and not just to be able to craft a higher quality of it.
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Yes, you're right.. but maxing out a stat(10+ points?) to get 5 points in a skill to still not even have the capability to craft steel T6 weapons without finding 5 crappy ones first, just seems very wasteful. Very similar to the double book gating on explosive arrows feel. Putting the crafting skills in the perks for use sounded good when it was mentioned in the notes, I was actually looking forward to it, but in practice it seems a lot more tedious and anti-crafting. The stats themselves being a pseudo level gate(15+ levels for 1 max skill, spiking it) with not much actual value seems a bit backwards to me as well. Like how fortitude as a general stat, would make you a tougher person... but instead just gives minor bonuses to 3 weapons. Spreading your points for attributes outside your weapons of choice are going towards a pure level gate since you won't even get any bonus if you don't use those weapons.

 
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