PC If you don't get hungry, you'll never starve!

I just thought about the tests on food consumption that I did, and I remembered that I did the test on a new game. When you start a new game in A17.1, you start out with 150% food and 150% water. Does anyone know if it is possible that having over 100% water would increase your stamina regeneration, which would then increase your potential food consumption rate?

From my calculations, the maximum food consumption in a 60 minute day should have been 244.8 without any stamina regen boosting buffs.

From my tests, after 2 hours of constant stamina regeneration through constant jumping in place, I went from 150 food to 127 food. That's 23 food per 2 hours, which would be 276 food per day (264-288 after accounting for in-game displayed value rounding).

At 3 hours, I had consumed 34 food total. 34 food x 8 = 272 food consumed per day (264-280 after accounting for in-game displayed value rounding).

At 4 hours, I had consumed 45 food total (49 water). 45 food x 6 = 270 food consumed per day (264-276 after in-game displayed value rounding).

In a slightly less scientific test which involved constantly chugging coffee while jumping in place and occasionally drinking beer to maintain a buzz, I managed to consume 17 food in one in-game hour, which would be equivalent to 408 food over an entire day. Due to rounding, it could have been closer to 16 or 18, which would be 384 - 432 food over an entire day.

 
I think spoilage would be cool from a realism perspective.

I also think passive burn along active burn would be a net positive. It would create a baseline burn rate of food consumption and it would also lower the amount of food you need when you're doing something really demanding (like mining).

Currently, you can go days without eating if you're doing a big base build... because you're just placing blocks and upgrading with a nail gun. You're using 0 stamina, so you don't need to eat. Simultaneously, if you're mining, you're eating a hilarious amount of food (unless you're augering, which the first scenario applies again).

Neither of those scenarios make sense and an active/passive burn food consumption system would smooth out the extremes somewhat.

 
I think spoilage would be cool from a realism perspective.
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As always, this is just my personal opinion, but if the only argument in favour of food spoilage that can be found is it's "realistic" that's a poor reason to implement into what is after all a game, and not a simulation.

If plants continue to live forever as they currently do, then the simple way out of food spoilage would be to not harvest until needed. If plants "die on the vine" then farming is going to become a small, incremental, but repetitively required task that'll need to be timed in expectation of the foods harvest date.

Likewise, if refrigeration negates food spoilage, then it's just an additional electricity consumer.

I just don't get what food spoilage would add to the game, in terms of fun.

 
As always, this is just my personal opinion, but if the only argument in favour of food spoilage that can be found is it's "realistic" that's a poor reason to implement into what is after all a game, and not a simulation.
If plants continue to live forever as they currently do, then the simple way out of food spoilage would be to not harvest until needed. If plants "die on the vine" then farming is going to become a small, incremental, but repetitively required task that'll need to be timed in expectation of the foods harvest date.

Likewise, if refrigeration negates food spoilage, then it's just an additional electricity consumer.

I just don't get what food spoilage would add to the game, in terms of fun.
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I gotta agree. This feature would just lead to complaints about the system from some for adding tedium, the rest, it would not bother but it wouldnt do much to alter their experience positively either.

I think it would be a neat little feature, but unless its super quick and ez to implement, it wouldnt be on my wish list.

 
Spoilage imo is essential from a gameplay perspective and great from any other thematic perspective. The devs were considering it afaik since long time ago - I don't know/can't imagine what the hold-up is.

As always, this is just my personal opinion, but if the only argument in favour of food spoilage that can be found is it's "realistic" that's a poor reason to implement into what is after all a game, and not a simulation.
If plants continue to live forever as they currently do, then the simple way out of food spoilage would be to not harvest until needed. If plants "die on the vine" then farming is going to become a small, incremental, but repetitively required task that'll need to be timed in expectation of the foods harvest date.

Likewise, if refrigeration negates food spoilage, then it's just an additional electricity consumer.

I just don't get what food spoilage would add to the game, in terms of fun.
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Depends on what you call "fun".

The whole game is full of realistic, simulation-like elements. If you took them out, there wouldn't be much of 7DTD left, so perhaps they may have some merit.

For example loot timers - a lot of people hated the idea of them as they couldn't imagine how a realistically tedius thing like loot timers could be fun. Spoilage benefits are even more obvious. As for the "just an additional electricity consumer" - having (additional) reasons to use an (underused) system is also how everything else in the game works.

Fridges should definitely not negate spoilage completely though, just improve the player's in-game QOL, and farms should not last infinitely.

when it worked perfectly well in A16.
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rofl

 
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Spoilage imo is essential from a gameplay perspective and great from any other thematic perspective. The devs were considering it afaik since long time ago - I don't know/can't imagine what the hold-up is.


Depends on what you call "fun".

The whole game is full of realistic, simulation-like elements. If you took them out, there wouldn't be much of 7DTD left, so perhaps they may have some merit.

For example loot timers - a lot of people hated the idea of them as they couldn't imagine how a realistically tedius thing like loot timers could be fun. Spoilage benefits are even more obvious. As for the "just an additional electricity consumer" - having (additional) reasons to use an (underused) system is also how everything else in the game works.

Fridges should definitely not negate spoilage completely though, just improve the player's in-game QOL, and farms should not last infinitely.
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So I'm going to have to do a little farming on a regular basis in order to ensure I've got a little harvesting to do on a regular basis to consume before it goes bad?

If spoilage comes in, I hope it's easily modded back out, because, while I would definitely give it a try, I can't find much fun in setting up a farm rotation that has, say, a half dozen potatoes ripening each day for me to eat. I'm just not that into food management I guess.

 
So I'm going to have to do a little farming on a regular basis in order to ensure I've got a little harvesting to do on a regular basis to consume before it goes bad?
If spoilage comes in, I hope it's easily modded back out, because, while I would definitely give it a try, I can't find much fun in setting up a farm rotation that has, say, a half dozen potatoes ripening each day for me to eat. I'm just not that into food management I guess.
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I am sure it will just come down to an xml option.

If they implement it well though, it won't feel like micro-management.

Farm plant expiration times don't have to be strict at all and with electricity, item expiration times will become something you will intuitively know after a while. There is no need for any rotations. As for any inventory micro-management, which the game suffers already from, and which will naturally come along with spoilage, they should implement some proper UI indicators, auto-sorting etc that will completely eliminate it. That's only common sense.

 
I am sure it will just come down to an xml option.
If they implement it well though, it won't feel like micro-management.

Farm plant expiration times don't have to be strict at all and with electricity, item expiration times will become something you will intuitively know after a while. There is no need for any rotations. As for any inventory micro-management, which the game suffers already from, and which will naturally come along with spoilage, they should implement some proper UI indicators, auto-sorting etc that will completely eliminate it. That's only common sense.
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Sounds like a lot of work just for people to say "Oh neat look the food spoils just like in real life, kinda a pain, but cool"

 
Sounds like a lot of work just for people to say "Oh neat look the food spoils just like in real life, kinda a pain, but cool"
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It's not. And it being cool/uncool has nothing to do with it.

It has gameplay value as many other, realistic or not, game elements that are "kind of a pain", like hunger, stamina, durability, diseases, loot timers, SI, etc (99% of the game), will complement electricity and will act as a much-needed resource sink.

 
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Woah....people at this very moment are ranting about how difficult it is to manage hunger and stamina and you want it to deplete for no activity as well? Doing this would translate basically to needing to eat more often and I doubt very many people are wanting to eat more often. I know I'm fine with how often we need to eat right now. Interesting idea, though, for those who might go AFK for a long time and come back starving instead of the same.
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I think they need to git gud or something, I've not once had food or water issues in 7 days to die and I been around since alpha 9 or so. I honestly don't get how people have any problems, especally with a17 with all the food sources now. I mean you got animals, animal fat, snow berries etc, not to mention the vending machines bascally being a 5 star resturaunt in the zombie apoc. Water is bascally solved the second you get a few cans, or if you find a cooking pot. I am far from the greatest player of this game, but even on my first day playing the game for the first time I never had food or water issues. I went into it blind as well.

The only way I could see someone having food and water issues is if they just don't explore and expect on day 1 to be able to stay in 1 small area and be fine.

 
Hello forums! I'm late for the party, needed to wait a bit to get activated, but since I pre-wrote this, I might as well post it. Most of it has been said already, but some reps shouldn't hurt within a thread ... :)

I would advocate adding *some* way to become hungry in the mid/late game, the proposed passive drain being an easy and a rather intuitive option. My reasoning is as follows:

A Day 1 character spends all the stamina he can regenerate, whether it is jogging to the quest trader, gathering wood / stone / clay for a base or fighting to loot POIs or level up. He needs to be able to survive, thus scavenged / hunted food will need to be enough - and in the current implementation, Day 1, it absolutely will. I can only see the builder having to specifically hunt for food. The scavenger will find cans and the jogger will find animals. Assuming no terrible RNG luck.

The rest of the game is pretty much aimed at reducing all stamina usage, and possibly metabolic rate; motorized vehicles and mining, gunpowder based damage and traps. Even putting on armor reduces the speed you *can* regenerate stamina and get hungry. While also over time improving loot gains and introducing traded foods + farming. I just don't see a way to balance a near-zero stamina use to require eating "even regularly" without starving the Day 1 character right off the bat.

Thus something unrelated to the current mechanisms of stamina use needs to be introduced. Of course you could just increase the stamina regen by two per second and add a passive stamina use of 2 per second. But it seems there is only one stamina system for passive changes, "StaminaChangeOT", so it possibly wouldn't be trivial. Arguably ranged fighting consumes stamina but end game that's only true for rifles, automatic weapons generate sta from hits, pistols and shotguns are hip fired by design and ... explosives.. no idea as they seem mostly unusable.

For Melee, the video linked here drives the point home pretty well imo.

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?106000-Is-Melee-Dead-I-think-so&p=932343&viewfull=1#post932343

https://youtu.be/cOJIhyXb-N8

It's a horde night spent sprinting and right clicking zombie forefaces with a blood hamm- sorry, sledgehammer.

4:30 shows the last "99% plate icon", which is the the previous "hunger buffer update" mechanism. The buffer is over, we're at actual 200 max stamina

16:48 at 183 max stamina =>

eating the first and only piece of food during the night

That's 17 max stamina spent over 12 minutes, or 1.5 per minute, while engaged in the most tiring excercise the end game has to offer. And looking at 0:20, Fortitude tree shows 0/5 Slow Metabolism, so he could still halve that.

So essentially, mining with motorized tools, travelling on wheels and possibly clearing POIs with hip fire weapons, that's the only stamina you'll use in a week. About 20 point for a horde night, while doing it the nuttiest way possible.

When halved by Slow Metabolism, that would be 10 points of stamina spent - with 17.1 having that fifty point buffer, you would eat once every five weeks. Make it once a week to be generous. Probably, in practice, mostly to heal.

TL;DR I just don't see a way to have hunger remain a thing while eliminating the need for stamina regeneration in the end game.

 
While I mean no disrespect to TFP or Gazz, if I go AFK I should still lose food/water normally.

As such I've added a modlet to change the game behavior. I'm working on another mod that is focused on eating and drinking, but at level 150+ you no longer need to eat or drink basically ever. I want to encourage people to use this game feature and not ignore it.

So you can now Go Hungry more often and enjoy those foods and drinks you spent time making!

 
It's not. And it being cool/uncool has nothing to do with it.
It has gameplay value as many other, realistic or not, game elements that are "kind of a pain", like hunger, stamina, durability, diseases, loot timers, SI, etc (99% of the game), will complement electricity and will act as a much-needed resource sink.
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Yeah I agree with this.

Spoilage makes constantly bringing in food a thing.... and that's good.

So long as there's some early game stuff that isn't too challenging that it's no fun.

Also, a mechanic like eating the same thing gives diminishing returns is important.

So early game you can indeed get food that doesn't spoil but it's not great.

Later on you get more effective food but it spoils... so you need refrigeration.

That's fun.

I don't ever want to see realism just for the sake of realism.

I don't think anyone wants to see peeing or changing a tampon added because it's realism.

There are definitely some limits.

Food spoilage, however, is a good step.

[so long as TFP don't make it stupid and everything spoils in 5 seconds.]

 
How about this instead

Add ability to make a colony

-> Have to feed colony -> Make farm -> Feed colony -> Profit

Seems like the logical way to make farming relevant in end game... IMO

The difference is vast.

Food spoilance = annoying and doesn't add any fun

Adding colony = now you have a REWARD for building a farm because it helps you grow your empire!

Right now, as many have basically alluded to, there is no point to making a farm unless perhaps you play on rare loot (25%) or just enjoy making a farm. I think my colony idea will solve that

 
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Farming isn’t relevant because there is little reward for it right now. That’s exactly what TFP should not be focused on but modders should.

They are far to many fundamental issues that 7 days needs to focus on. Colonies are not one of them. Not until progression is done, rwg is fixed, and the game has actually shipped.

If the pimps prioritize this idea, and hope to GOD they do not, that is on them. But this has nothing to do with the core of the game. At all.

 
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I would agree to food spoilage only if a Powered refrigerator WHEN POWERED, freezes the spoilage timer.

Gives us an extra thing to do / reasonable content to achieve.

 
You don’t need a spoilage system. You just need to set stack sizes on everything to 1. Then it’s either be that annoying person with 1000 boxes or eat what you make.

Either way having canned or dried food circumvents this. From a role play perspective food spoilage is just annoying at best. From a casual perspective is plain broken.

This is a mod not core feature.

 
As maintainer of a farming mod I will state that, I will never implement a food spoilage system. If a system like this is placed in the game and made required I will mod it out. It has no place but micromanaging something that should he micromanaged in other aspects such as actually making the thing to start with.

Meat that is harvested fresh from an animal does not spoil the way you think it should. ♥♥♥♥ you buy at Walmart ain’t fresh and it isn’t sanitary. Further more even slightly tainted meat is fine if cooked properly. You do know there is such a thing as aged meat? That’s raw? For 28 days or more??

Seriously there are other problems than food spoilage. The fact that I can stand around for 5 in game days and not die from dehydration is actually a broken reality. Not spoiled ♥♥♥♥ing meat.

 
I would agree to food spoilage only if a Powered refrigerator WHEN POWERED, freezes the spoilage timer.
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So, no spoilage.

You don’t need a spoilage system. You just need to set stack sizes on everything to 1. Then it’s either be that annoying person with 1000 boxes or eat what you make.
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Excellent idea. Love it.

 
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