PC If you don't get hungry, you'll never starve!
- Thread starter Arkheias
- Start date
hotpoon
Refugee
Roland, I assume this is the thread you were talking about? If so, I don't think it is the opposite of what I was suggesting in my thread at all.
I would have no problem if this were implemented so long as the drainage is very slow. I always assumed that this was how it was anyway. I'm quite surprised to find out that hunger only depletes if your character moves.
I would have no problem if this were implemented so long as the drainage is very slow. I always assumed that this was how it was anyway. I'm quite surprised to find out that hunger only depletes if your character moves.
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Kage848
Stream Team
First of all food is no longer an issue because players are playing the game smart and working hard to get to that point. What's the goal here? Work hard, play smart and still be starving on day 15? Nope, that sounds awful.
With that being said I think spoilage could be a cool idea. Also I would love to see seasons. Summer hot, food grows. Winter cold, no food growth. I like the idea of maintaining a farm through the summer and stockpiling for winter.
MaxTunnerX
Refugee
Let me crash that idea of yours right here and now. If this ever happens it will work for like 1 build max. After that they will introduce greenhouses with heating and whatever and it will all be back to farm whenever and wherever you want. Zero impact overall.
Kage848
Stream Team
Why do you say this? They dont have to add in those things. But even of they did maintaining a greenhouse would still be more work than you have now. Heat, electricity, more work put into the building. Plus they could make the glass costs a lot.
Either way this would still be more work than it takes now to run a farm.
MaxTunnerX
Refugee
Because thats what always happens, especially in early access games. And it happens because half of the community wants this, and the other half wants the opposite. You always end up with both things from which you pick the one you like. Balance is another reason for this. If they make iron mining harder, they will add electric mining tools to compensate etc. It just happens like that.
Now back to the reason why Im here:
The topic title is misleading. It's very much normal to be hungry before starving, you can never starve if youre never hungry.
Now back to the reason why Im here:
The topic title is misleading. It's very much normal to be hungry before starving, you can never starve if youre never hungry.
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Ghostlight
Refugee
I was responding to Hek.
Personally I would hate food spoilage as a mechanic. And I would like to point out that food was implemented in A16 really really well (like many things they broke when they didn't need to be changed at all).
In A16....
1) The wellness mechanic meant the player would strive to make the best food to get the best wellness boost. So you'd go out your way to make Meat Stew. In A17, all food is created equal. It really doesn't matter what you eat, so why bother making anything but the simplest foods?
2) Balance was spot on. Players rarely had a comfortable surplus of food, and if they did it was because they went out their way to create it.
So it kind of smarts when food has been implemented so poorly in A17 that we are at the stage of discussing spoilage (ugh) as a mechanic to fix it, when it worked perfectly well in A16.
There's a lesson here, if only I could remember what it was....
If it ain't broke don't fix it? Nah it's not that.
Oh yeah....I remember....
If it's working really well don't replace it with a poorly designed piece of garbage.
Which could be the MANTRA for A17 tbh.
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JaxTeller718
Survivor
EXACTLY. I agree here and would love to see this added.
Not everything needs to be streamlined. Electricity is CRIMINALLY underused. Look at Rust, Ark, SO many other game run circles around this one when it comes to implementation of electricity.
Finding more use for it can be fun and a nice end game goal in setting up a nice colony/community. Ad spoilage can be a real thing because now you can have fridges that save your meat. Everyones happy then. And modders can play havoc with electrical items.
Roland
Community Moderator
In your thread you had two points. One was dealing with the point at which hunger starts to impact the stamina max. The other one was having to micromanage hunger. If this idea in this thread gets implemented you will be managing your hunger more often than you are now and it truly will reach the point of micromanaging.
Frankly, for someone with your preferences that you outlined I'm surprised you would be for a mechanic that drains your fullness faster than it does now.
Hek Harris
Refugee
Which day are you (1000 meats at day 7, yes, there is an issue), what are your settings (have a look at some other threads where newbies explain they don't find food), how many meat would you hope to have in your safes if the game was set as you would like ?
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Roland
Community Moderator
It's also kinda weird that you would try this tactic again after I already explained to you that spoilage has been an off and on topic in these forums since the beginning. It has nothing to do with A17 and is not some mechanic barely brought up to fix anything. Nice try though.
Damocles
Refugee
spoiling food... thats the way to go to keep feed interesting in mid and later game (and not just use up 1 inventory slot).
-> with electrically powered fridges as an endgame item. (slowing down spoilage to like 25%)
And more gameplay influence by the quality of the food.
(Like some variation of the former wellness system)
Producing high quality food perpetually would be an important part of the players economy.
-> with electrically powered fridges as an endgame item. (slowing down spoilage to like 25%)
And more gameplay influence by the quality of the food.
(Like some variation of the former wellness system)
Producing high quality food perpetually would be an important part of the players economy.
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Arkheias
Refugee
I'm just going to clarify what led me to create this thread.
I've been trying to make a mod which would make the amount of meat you get from animals proportional to their actual real world sizes. I.e., a stag could give you 60 lbs of meat whereas a chicken might give you 5 lbs. In the real world, the stag gives you 12x more meat, but in the game you only get 3x more meat. That seems dumb.
Another part of balancing this is deciding what a unit of raw meat actually is. So I did an experiment to see how much the hunger meter would deplete in one day without performing any activities, to get a baseline. I was planning on using this to determine how many units of grilled meat the player would need to eat at minimum just to counteract that loss. I would then treat that minimum amount of grilled meat as being equivalent to 2000-2400 calories. Then I would select an arbitrary type of meat and use its calories/lb to reverse engineer how many lbs of meat each unit of grilled meat would be equivalent to. Each unit of raw meat would then be treated as 1/5 of that.
But now my plan is ruined. I could easily work around it with just an estimate for how much food a character consumes per day on average, but now I have the additional problem of knowing that the meta strategy for not starving, is not moving. I can't unlearn that. I don't want to know that. It shouldn't be a thing.
As an aside, it would be perfectly normal for players to have more meat than they could ever possibly consume when they indiscriminately slaughter every animal they come across just because. A stag can give you 60 lbs of meat. Each lb of that meat is about 540 calories. That's approximately 32,400 calories total. That could sustain a person for two weeks just by itself.
Watch this video to see how horrible you all are.
I've been trying to make a mod which would make the amount of meat you get from animals proportional to their actual real world sizes. I.e., a stag could give you 60 lbs of meat whereas a chicken might give you 5 lbs. In the real world, the stag gives you 12x more meat, but in the game you only get 3x more meat. That seems dumb.
Another part of balancing this is deciding what a unit of raw meat actually is. So I did an experiment to see how much the hunger meter would deplete in one day without performing any activities, to get a baseline. I was planning on using this to determine how many units of grilled meat the player would need to eat at minimum just to counteract that loss. I would then treat that minimum amount of grilled meat as being equivalent to 2000-2400 calories. Then I would select an arbitrary type of meat and use its calories/lb to reverse engineer how many lbs of meat each unit of grilled meat would be equivalent to. Each unit of raw meat would then be treated as 1/5 of that.
But now my plan is ruined. I could easily work around it with just an estimate for how much food a character consumes per day on average, but now I have the additional problem of knowing that the meta strategy for not starving, is not moving. I can't unlearn that. I don't want to know that. It shouldn't be a thing.
As an aside, it would be perfectly normal for players to have more meat than they could ever possibly consume when they indiscriminately slaughter every animal they come across just because. A stag can give you 60 lbs of meat. Each lb of that meat is about 540 calories. That's approximately 32,400 calories total. That could sustain a person for two weeks just by itself.
Watch this video to see how horrible you all are.
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HungryZombie
Scavenger
Or mine all night. Mining really depletes your food.
Arkheias
Refugee
I looked at the xml files to see if I could figure out how the hunger system works. Apparently, it is not using stamina that consumes food, but regenerating stamina that consumes food.
From entityclasses.xml:
10 Stamina/Second * 3600 Seconds/Hour = 36,000 Stamina/Hour = 36,000 Stamina/standard in-game day
You can theoretically lose a maximum of 244.8 food point in a single default length day.
I then did my own tests, where I just jumped continuously in the same spot for four in-game hours (jumping directly subtracts 20 stamina and doesn't affect regeneration), and my character consumed 45 food and 49 water. If you extrapolate that over 24 hours, you could theoretically consume 270 food and 294 water. I'm just going to ignore this test for my final calculations though.
According to this arbitrary article, peak performance is burning 12,000 calories a day. I'm assuming that peak performance does not allow for sleeping.
If we assume that endlessly jumping in the same spot is peak in-game performance, then each unit of food is equivalent to 49 calories. One unit of grilled meat is therefore 490 calories.
From entityclasses.xml:
0.017 HP/Second * 60 Seconds/Minute = 1.02 HP/Minute, this seems simple enough.
If this works on the same scale as health then:
10 Stamina/Second * 3600 Seconds/Hour = 36,000 Stamina/Hour = 36,000 Stamina/standard in-game day
36,000 Stamina/Hour * 0.0068 Max Stamina lost/Stamina regenerated = 244.8 Max stamina lost/Hour.
You can theoretically lose a maximum of 244.8 food point in a single default length day.
I then did my own tests, where I just jumped continuously in the same spot for four in-game hours (jumping directly subtracts 20 stamina and doesn't affect regeneration), and my character consumed 45 food and 49 water. If you extrapolate that over 24 hours, you could theoretically consume 270 food and 294 water. I'm just going to ignore this test for my final calculations though.
According to this arbitrary article, peak performance is burning 12,000 calories a day. I'm assuming that peak performance does not allow for sleeping.
If we assume that endlessly jumping in the same spot is peak in-game performance, then each unit of food is equivalent to 49 calories. One unit of grilled meat is therefore 490 calories.
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I had to check the date of that article. With most people in the western world obese or at least overweight, the statement in that article that "most" people can survive a few weeks without food is ridiculous. The average person today could survive months without food quite easily.
I do a lot of fasting myself and am very active in fasting communities so know a lot about how far people can push this.
But this is a game and I have no idea why the reality card has to be played every time we talk about computer games. Liberties need to be taken in order to make the game challenging. If I could go until day 21 without eating, which I have done IRL, then what kind of challenge is that? It would be boring, I'd hate it.
OzHawkeye
Community Moderator
I don't get why people would want spoilage, because I don't see it changing anything in the end.
You're still going to have more food, at end game, than you'll ever need. Spoilage would just either force you to refrigerate it, or leave it in its raw form as grown plants in the ground (unless they're also going to spoil).
You're still going to have more food, at end game, than you'll ever need. Spoilage would just either force you to refrigerate it, or leave it in its raw form as grown plants in the ground (unless they're also going to spoil).
MaxTunnerX
Refugee
Yep, same thing as with the seasons. Refrigerators would become a thing, especially when electricity exists, and again the game would be much harder for newbies, while endgamers will still get the same results.