Ideas for the game

[Matt115]

You seem to be long enough here to have played A17. A17 had your proposed system in general and the devs redesigned it to what we have now. There is littel chance that they will go back to a system they already tried and found wanting

Or he had idea that some types of ammo are this same groupe but have diffrent caliber : i was watching a dude who was shooting with diffrent amount of gunpowder or with diffrent caliber using this same gune. So something like diffrent types of bullet casing like it was in previouse versions but more "extended".

 

[bachgaman]

I have a few ideas FP. I have been playing the game for a good while now and it seems there's more room for improvement. I was thinking being able to paint and mod vehicles add a car and semi or maybe even a motorboat

More weapons like Grenade Launcher, Tommy Gun, p90, more rifles, different types of Ammo like .45 ACP or 5.56mm. Even grenades for the launcher. More character customization choices and different clothes.i would really love to see all of this in the game in 2021. My gamertag on steam is UBCSCmdrBlack thank you for your time and hopefully consider these ideas.

Where is new ideas?

 

[meganoth]

Or he had idea that some types of ammo are this same groupe but have diffrent caliber : i was watching a dude who was shooting with diffrent amount of gunpowder or with diffrent caliber using this same gune. So something like diffrent types of bullet casing like it was in previouse versions but more "extended".

I wasn't talking about ammo, I was talking about his idea in the second section, about the thematic clusters of perks

 

[TWORDY]

I see there is some sort of dose of confusion around .

I wasn't talking about ammo, I was talking about his idea in the second section, about the thematic clusters of perks

I mentioned ammo types also back in the day, and mods (solely I had a pistol, shotgun, rifle, etc. on mind but devs went further and mods are available for tools also). I am rather satisfied with the presence of mods in the game, but implementation is the other part of the story that would require a long essay on the website.

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Going back to the new/old system. Some huge companies experiment with progression and unlocking systems. I would rather not openly mention for my own were some of the ideas come from, but if You don't know what is all about, it's certainly a business model in the first place. Currently, companies put some effort into giving more freedom when it comes to progression or player specialization. This should not be a secret, especially if some of the mods deal with that. Most successful games and iterations are actually mods created by private people if someone doesn`t know the history of the gaming industry.

So to make things clear so there are no misconceptions, I never asked for 5 grand perks as specializations. What I had in mind back then was assigning earned points into the ability so the players would not have to repeatedly craft items in order to progress - that was not solely my own conception, including some of the other guys in the forum behind it.

Right now I believe that splitting entire abilities might slightly improve progression also so the weapons, tool progression might be completely independent in some sense. Pretty much as Health, Stamina, Stealth, Influence Perks, Mechanical skills, You name it. But without at least 3 concepts with graphical representation, it's hard to quantify this type of progression, which is exactly the same as the current one (yes exactly), but the only difference is in more direct access to those abilities - without 5 grand-perks watching over them. Making some of the abilities faster to progress in, easily available (gating by more point requirements), so here players could experience some sense of progression also.

As a matter of fact, nowadays players jump from Fortitude to Strenght, Intelligence and choose necessary abilities to their needs. This is what I am trying to convey and make it easier in general, have a more neat and flexible system that follows the same rules. Rolling out a map would be easier. So, simply put, the only thing that would be gone is actually the 5 primary perks, and the rest of the abilities would act on their own.

So, simply put, primarily the only thing that is gone is the 5 primary grand-perks. Melee and Rifles would be a whole different branch. Some other perks would be in other branches in nicely graphically presented progression trees instead of tables like it's nowadays. That's what I think and it's solely my opinion on how the things might have looked around. I'm opened to criticism rather than stagnation. I am not sure if anyone would follow this concept without having it drawn on the board. It's merely a concept and I wrote an essay again at 5AM in Saturday...

 

[meganoth]

I see there is some sort of dose of confusion around .

I mentioned ammo types also back in the day, and mods (solely I had a pistol, shotgun, rifle, etc. on mind but devs went further and mods are available for tools also). I am rather satisfied with the presence of mods in the game, but implementation is the other part of the story that would require a long essay on the website.

----

Going back to the new/old system. Some huge companies experiment with progression and unlocking systems. I would rather not openly mention for my own were some of the ideas come from, but if You don't know what is all about, it's certainly a business model in the first place.

I don't know why you make a secret out of it, ideas luckily are still not protectable by patents or copyright.

Currently, companies put some effort into giving more freedom when it comes to progression or player specialization. This should not be a secret, especially if some of the mods deal with that. Most successful games and iterations are actually mods created by private people if someone doesn`t know the history of the gaming industry.

I would disagree. There are some notable subgenre ideas or concepts that started as a mod, the League-of-Legends and battle royales and a handful others, but for each of them I can list two concepts that started as an indie game. For example the 4 subgenres which were started by Minecraft, Dwarf Fortress, Factorio and Slay the Spire.

So to make things clear so there are no misconceptions, I never asked for 5 grand perks as specializations. What I had in mind back then was assigning earned points into the ability so the players would not have to repeatedly craft items in order to progress - that was not solely my own conception, including some of the other guys in the forum behind it.

Right now I believe that splitting entire abilities might slightly improve progression also so the weapons, tool progression might be completely independent in some sense. Pretty much as Health, Stamina, Stealth, Influence Perks, Mechanical skills, You name it. But without at least 3 concepts with graphical representation, it's hard to quantify this type of progression, which is exactly the same as the current one (yes exactly), but the only difference is in more direct access to those abilities - without 5 grand-perks watching over them. Making some of the abilities faster to progress in, easily available (gating by more point requirements), so here players could experience some sense of progression also.

My "mathematical sense" had a heart attack when you said this . Something is either exactly like something else or it is different, but not both. I assume you simply wanted to say it is very similar.

TFP changed the system of A17 because it made some abilities too fast to progress in. A system with progressive costs the higher you go into a perk (what you seem to propose here) would certainly have some advantages. But also maybe the disadvantage of making it too easy to get your prefered perk selection and then sticking with it in every game, which eventually will lead you to hurt replayability. Not everything a player wants is also beneficial to him.

The other aspect is that 7D2D is near the end of development where redesigns will only happen if they can be done with minimal effort or the system in place is too bad to go into release with it. For example a perk tree concept would need a redesign of the UI, the current list design can't adequately represent a tree. And it would need rebalancing of perks.

Not to say that a rebalancing of some of the perks isn't needed anyway, but at the current time my impression is that TFP is satisfied with the current perk system and will probably only do isolated corrections to specific perks. And any discussions about a new perk systems would only apply to a sequel of 7D2D.

As a matter of fact, nowadays players jump from Fortitude to Strenght, Intelligence and choose necessary abilities to their needs. This is what I am trying to convey and make it easier in general, have a more neat and flexible system that follows the same rules. Rolling out a map would be easier. So, simply put, the only thing that would be gone is actually the 5 primary perks, and the rest of the abilities would act on their own.

So, simply put, primarily the only thing that is gone is the 5 primary grand-perks. Melee and Rifles would be a whole different branch. Some other perks would be in other branches in nicely graphically presented progression trees instead of tables like it's nowadays. That's what I think and it's solely my opinion on how the things might have looked around. I'm opened to criticism rather than stagnation. I am not sure if anyone would follow this concept without having it drawn on the board. It's merely a concept and I wrote an essay again at 5AM in Saturday...

 

[TWORDY]

Well then, so at least what I posted on the website might be found in a sequel .

I would rather look at things as short-term and long-term impacts in general. The problem is always with scaling (abilities), in making them not too OP or completely useless in a pre-constructed scenario - everything has to find its place. 

I have presented weapon progression from basic e.g Pistol to Desert, (such progression was taken literally and probably that was misleading on my part because I used some shortcuts). Desert Vulture acts sort of now as any other gun in a pre-constructed tier (because weapons as abilities are bound with grand 5 perks) - Pistol and Desert V compete with other Rifles or a Shotguns in general, that is breaking my heart. Because of that, the pistol doesn't behave like an early game item, weak-close range weapon. Other weapons without perking in them feel like (semi)automatic pistol at some point - or at least that's my observation. What I would like to happen - balancing the weapon with the reload speed, mag size, rounds per minute, ammo type and its damage with penetration (so Armour and its properties kick in), recoil and so on, with the possibility to attach mods - that's it.

Abilities should perhaps determine the number of attached mods, reload speed, possibility to craft a given weapon or ammo type and that's all. Some bonuses in damage only against undead might be considered, to make the game more progressive - my favorite word. Then the game would stay fun and at least pretend to have anything in common with in-real-life scenarios (obviously downscaled). That's what I feel and it's solely my opinion. Bows and melee weapons are completely separate entities.

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Well, the progression would be similar only in terms of granting points by acquiring XP like it is since A 17, just the concept would be exactly the same. But, ofc in a mathematical manner progression would scale up slightly differently - and that`s some sort of intention on my part also. 

Enforce some abilities as cheap ones, day one skills, and tools, by moving some ability or weapon ladders. So no matter what some perks would stay as less powerful (but there is early, a mid and late game that makes the game fun). Later, read the data to whether the construct created by the team holds up. Create abilities that work against certain types of enemy or topography. So simply put, some abilities and weapons should probably be weaker and cheap (in progression) and not necessarily stay redistributed across 5 grand perks.

We will see what the future holds for the next title.

 

[Kooyla]

I'm a fan of the game, been playing for years. My request is that the traders recognize the fact that I am not a man. It's frustrating being called man all the time.

 

[bachgaman]

I'm a fan of the game, been playing for years. My request is that the traders recognize the fact that I am not a man. It's frustrating being called man all the time.

Yes, that's the main problem of the game. I would also add that the game lacks a afro-american merchant and a transvestite

 

[Kooyla]

Yes, that's the main problem of the game. I would also add that the game lacks a afro-american merchant and a transvestite

Well you're not very nice. Women are half of the population guy and also blm.

 

[meganoth]

I'm a fan of the game, been playing for years. My request is that the traders recognize the fact that I am not a man. It's frustrating being called man all the time.

If you want you can make a bug report so they don't forget it. Whether it will get fixed probably depends on whether they can hire the same speakers to add new lines.

 

[Kooyla]

If you want you can make a bug report so they don't forget it. Whether it will get fixed probably depends on whether they can hire the same speakers to add new lines.

I mean they could just remove the male specific stuff when you are a female character. That's a good idea, about the bug report. Where do you go to do that?

 

[meganoth]

Yes, that's the main problem of the game. I would also add that the game lacks a afro-american merchant and a transvestite

While some people get triggered by any mention of other sexes nowadays, addressing a toon wrongly is a simple bug just like the wrong spelling of an ingame item or calling all guns pistols in the perk menue would be.

I mean they could just remove the male specific stuff when you are a female character. That's a good idea, about the bug report. Where do you go to do that?

Would that be possible without making the sentences sound wrong? I didn't look up which sentences need treatment so I don't know.

You can make bug reports by using the link in green on top of the forum page. Then follow the instructions there, except you don't need to add logfiles or be all too specific about your hardware. But probably a list of all critical sentences you noticed might be helpful.

 

[bachgaman]

While some people get triggered by any mention of other sexes nowadays, addressing a toon wrongly is a simple bug just like the wrong spelling of an ingame item or calling all guns pistols in the perk menue would be.

I agree

The thing is, my "masculine" character isn't really male, he's transgender. Transvestite. And I'd like to see him treated with "it." Why does this @%$#ing white male hetero merchant allow himself these sexist statements calling me a man?? I'm offended by that. I demand that the merchant be removed. And want steal a tape recorder from his shop

 

[meganoth]

I agree

The thing is, my "masculine" character isn't really male, he's transgender. Transvestite. And I'd like to see him treated with "it." Why does this @%$#ing white male hetero merchant allow himself these sexist statements calling me a man?? I'm offended by that. I demand that the merchant be removed. And want steal a tape recorder from his shop

Well, but that is an omission in the character menue already because there is no option to select transgender there. Whatever you think your toon is really male.

But there is a secret recipe in the game to chemically change your toon. You can find it if you wrench up a few mines.

 

[Kooyla]

Well, but that is an omission in the character menue already because there is no option to select transgender there. Whatever you think your toon is really male.

But there is a secret recipe in the game to chemically change your toon. You can find it if you wrench up a few mines.

Thank you for your help, M.

 

[Matt115]

Thank you for your help, M.

This is something else : if i good remember voice acting is rly expensive. So "men" in this meaning can be recognized like homo sapiens . So in diffrent language it easier to translate it to something neutral - in english man mean race like man elf and  dwarf and gender male/female in polish for example you can say " kup to człowieku!" you can translate it as " buy it man" but you woudn't know a gender of this person.  But what i mean is that TFP isn't treyarch so they can just hire someone and create a lot of voice line - you need to record it well and implement it without bugs. They just need to focus on RWG ,fixing bugs etc so they don't have time to polishing  small details yey

 

[meganoth]

This is something else : if i good remember voice acting is rly expensive. So "men" in this meaning can be recognized like homo sapiens . So in diffrent language it easier to translate it to something neutral - in english man mean race like man elf and  dwarf and gender male/female in polish for example you can say " kup to człowieku!" you can translate it as " buy it man" but you woudn't know a gender of this person.  But what i mean is that TFP isn't treyarch so they can just hire someone and create a lot of voice line - you need to record it well and implement it without bugs. They just need to focus on RWG ,fixing bugs etc so they don't have time to polishing  small details yey

Sure. But voice recording can happen at any time parallel to any work done on RWG, different people are involved in those tasks. And for TFP there is no immediate pressure to fix a new bug if it isn't critical. So it may get fixed eventually but I would rather bet on winning the lottery than on this bug being already fixed in A20 .

 

[Matt115]

Sure. But voice recording can happen at any time parallel to any work done on RWG, different people are involved in those tasks. And for TFP there is no immediate pressure to fix a new bug if it isn't critical. So it may get fixed eventually but I would rather bet on winning the lottery than on this bug being already fixed in A20 .

I was trying to say that is not a piority so it will be fixed maybe in A22 or A23 more likly

 

[Adam the Waster]

What I meant was that because INTs own weapons still let you use your hands you already have lots of weapons for Intellect, i.e. all the weapons of other attributes are useable for an Intellect player as well.

If you are a strength player for example, it does not make much sense to have a pistol as well, because you can't use them both at the same time. But as INT player you can use your turrets AND and a shotgun at the same time.

ture ture. but...

Comeone! your telling me you would not want madmole to make a hub cap launcher to cut them zombies legs off.

plus they can get wacky with weapons. 

but i do understand
(flamethrower would still be sexy though)

 

[Aldranon]

That attributes are directly connected to specific weapons could use a relook and sanity check.

The fallout system did a pretty good job of making all attributes useful without hard linking them to a specific weapon type. 

I still don't understand why TFP went the way they did.