Idea to make dew collector viable again after 2.6: It creates pure mineral water

meganoth

meganoth

Community Moderator
Early Backer
As the title already says: If the dew collector creates pure mineral water, and preferably it should be the only way to create pure mineral water, then the collector would be a viable mid game addition. Naturally it should do that only after installing relevant modifications like the water purifier.

If not, another idea would be to make the water purifier craftable. The water purifier seems to me the only saving grace for the collector at the moment. EDIT: Seems this is already possible, at least according to Valleorin. That seems somewhat ok then, though I'll have to check the material cost of the recipe, as cooking the water is dirt cheap
 
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I like the yuca smoothie better.

In general, if we were to develop this idea, then make a banal water filter, where you could throw 6 stacks of cans of dirty water, and after a while pick it up with clean water. It just looks strange, there is a filter that we can create, but for some reason we can only turn dirty water into clean water by boiling it over a fire.
 
We could consider adding water purification tablets to make mineral water. Since these items are obtained through looting, their quantity can be well controlled without becoming overly abundant. The design that the dew collector requires empty bottles this time is absolutely brilliant
 
Honestly the only thing that would make the dew collector viable for me again is if one dew collector can churn out 60 units of clean water as fast as one stove can. I’d rather get the usable output back as soon as possible than have to go back day after day to add and remove jars. Much easier to fill 60 jars and load them in the stove. I’m also a smoothie fancier.
 
Making the collector consume charcoal for producing clean water sound like an idea to me. Having it producing murky water without and mineral water with filtering would definatly give it more purpose early game, certainly now we have jars again.
Later in the game, I'm a smoothy addict. No love for the current version of the collector anymore.
 
Dead Smarty said:
Making the collector consume charcoal for producing clean water sound like an idea to me.
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meganoth said:
As the title already says: If the dew collector creates pure mineral water, and preferably it should be the only way to create pure mineral water, then the collector would be a viable mid game addition. Naturally it should do that only after installing relevant modifications like the water purifier.

If not, another idea would be to make the water purifier craftable. The water purifier seems to me the only saving grace for the collector at the moment. EDIT: Seems this is already possible, at least according to Valleorin. That seems somewhat ok then, though I'll have to check the material cost of the recipe, as cooking the water is dirt cheap
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Or combine the two thoughts, and have two levels of water filter, standard for water,
grind charcoal the golden rod and antibiotics to make the mineral water filter.
 
4sheetzngeegles said:
Or combine the two thoughts, and have two levels of water filter, standard for water,
grind charcoal the golden rod and antibiotics to make the mineral water filter.
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Just don't forget that if you do the same kind of thing with mineral water in the dew collector as they did with adding empty jars to the dew collector, you'll continue to make it obsolete. If you need all the same ingredients for a filter to make mineral water as you need to boil mineral water, you're better off just boiling mineral water... at least as long as you also have to have empty jars in the dew collector. Unless you're suggesting a filter can make far more mineral water before being replaced? Or that it doesn't have to be replaced? If the filter is handled similarly to the apiary flowers, where it consumes them as "fuel", then it's just better to boil it than to use a dew collector. IF they were to remove the empty jars from dew collectors, then this would be a nice addition.
 
Riamus said:
Just don't forget that if you do the same kind of thing with mineral water in the dew collector as they did with adding empty jars to the dew collector, you'll continue to make it obsolete.
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I had to read it a couple of times. But I got you now. I was thinking of it like weapons and armor
basically tiers. The campfire as tier 1 it may go faster but it can only make regular water. And for
those that don't want or need to use the dew collector.

The dew collector regular filter tier 2 to make basic water, for those that choose to use the dew
collector. Tier 3 only the dew collector can make the mineral water but just like the apiary you
would add ingredients periodically to get the top tier water. So it does not become a tug of war.

I would not want to add anything that forces a choice. Personally basic water suffices for me until
I can make smoothies. But since the two suggestions were based on the same thought I posted why
not combine them, and give a use to antibiotics again. I never get to the point of needing them.
Coal and golden rod by the time, meaning late game i usually have unused excess. Plus at 60 medical
the excess sham sandwiches, nitrate, and water, would make the antibiotics.

Personally on a side note: I would like to consume honey automatically, and just have an event that changes
the probability drop rate from 0 to a positive, if I am infected. And keeps the probability at a positive for each
5% infection increase. So if I am at 8 I can eventually find two. Then goes back to 0. Making it a positive yield
treasure hunt getting good wood while getting a little honey.
 
4sheetzngeegles said:
I had to read it a couple of times. But I got you now. I was thinking of it like weapons and armor
basically tiers. The campfire as tier 1 it may go faster but it can only make regular water. And for
those that don't want or need to use the dew collector.

The dew collector regular filter tier 2 to make basic water, for those that choose to use the dew
collector. Tier 3 only the dew collector can make the mineral water but just like the apiary you
would add ingredients periodically to get the top tier water. So it does not become a tug of war.

I would not want to add anything that forces a choice. Personally basic water suffices for me until
I can make smoothies. But since the two suggestions were based on the same thought I posted why
not combine them, and give a use to antibiotics again. I never get to the point of needing them.
Coal and golden rod by the time, meaning late game i usually have unused excess. Plus at 60 medical
the excess sham sandwiches, nitrate, and water, would make the antibiotics.

Personally on a side note: I would like to consume honey automatically, and just have an event that changes
the probability drop rate from 0 to a positive, if I am infected. And keeps the probability at a positive for each
5% infection increase. So if I am at 8 I can eventually find two. Then goes back to 0. Making it a positive yield
treasure hunt getting good wood while getting a little honey.
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So are you saying that you'd remove the mineral water from being possible to make on a campfire? Or am I reading that wrong? If so, then yes, that would make dew collectors valuable again, at least for anyone who uses mineral water. However, you'd then upset everyone who doesn't want to use dew collectors but who does want mineral water.

This is how I see it.... It is better to allow people to have a choice of whether or not to use jars since jars are obviously a divisive issue. What we had before 2.6 let people use jars if they wanted, while also allowing people who didn't want to use jars to ignore them. This was a good balance as both groups could have what they wanted. It may not have been perfect... those who wanted to use jars were "inconvenienced" by not having to use them in a dew collector, but it was still a very good compromise. Previously, they couldn't use jars at all unless they used a mod. And now, those who don't want to use jars are being forced to use jars unless they use a mod. In both cases, you're forcing a way to deal with water on everyone. That middle ground let both sides get water in the way they wanted and was a much better situation than forcing people to play a certain way. But those who cried so hard for jars couldn't be content with having jars. Instead, they had to keep crying about it until those who don't want jars are stuck dealing with jars. And for what? Just because they can't handle abstraction? The middle ground we were at was a far better option than what we have now.

As far as trying to make dew collectors not obsolete by letting them make mineral water, that's at least something to make them worth making. But if you have to keep making filters or using the same resources to make the mineral water that you'd use for boiling it, it really isn't that big of an improvement. You still have more speed and capacity from a campfire even if you have to do 2 steps - boil clean water, then boil mineral water. You can get your water with far fewer campfires than you'd need dew collectors to produce, and it's faster. Even if it's 18 (I haven't checked) total water you can get from a dew collector, you still have over 3x capacity in a campfire and the speed is also faster, especially with Master Chef.

I have zero hope that they'll balance things out again so people who don't want empty jars don't have to use them. I'll have to use a mod. I'm kind of at the point I just don't feel like playing the game right now. That's not just from the water, but just having played it too much and needing a break. So we'll see what it looks like when I decide to come back to it and then I'll decide whether or not a mod is necessary. But I expect it will be necessary.

Who knows? Maybe I'll be lucky and they'll be willing to make a game option to remove the jar requirement from dew collectors. That would be an easy option for them to add and would solve the problem for those who don't want that. But I doubt they'll do it. They want people using the jars.
 
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Riamus said:
So are you saying that you'd remove the mineral water from being possible to make on a campfire? Or am I reading that wrong? If so, then yes, that would make dew collectors valuable again,
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Yes. But as you pointed out correctly. It is basically robbing Peter to pay Paul, I mistakenly over looked that part.
So scrap that idea.

Basically I always looked at the campfire as a stoneage piece of equipment, but because it was in game so long before the
dew collectors were added that got all the bells and whistles. And the cooking buffs outdid the collectors in production speed.
Like you say give everyone their choice. They went through a lot to enable it, I was trying to keep it as an extension. Just like water
bodies themselves. They had just done a stream, and Fubar had just gotten it to the work as they wanted. Then they were stamped out
pardon the pun. There has to be something that would allow the two to symbiotically exist. Maybe if the campfire has to be refueled
and the Dew Collector filter does not but requires a huge amount of startup resources to make it permanent.
 
4sheetzngeegles said:
Yes. But as you pointed out correctly. It is basically robbing Peter to pay Paul, I mistakenly over looked that part.
So scrap that idea.

Basically I always looked at the campfire as a stoneage piece of equipment, but because it was in game so long before the
dew collectors were added that got all the bells and whistles. And the cooking buffs outdid the collectors in production speed.
Like you say give everyone their choice. They went through a lot to enable it, I was trying to keep it as an extension. Just like water
bodies themselves. They had just done a stream, and Fubar had just gotten it to the work as they wanted. Then they were stamped out
pardon the pun. There has to be something that would allow the two to symbiotically exist. Maybe if the campfire has to be refueled
and the Dew Collector filter does not but requires a huge amount of startup resources to make it permanent.
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Maybe whenever they add an actual stove workstation to the game, they'll move many things from the campfire to only the stove, making it less easy to cheaply get stuff like water in large quantities. But that really isn't the fix I'm interested in. It might make dew collectors more valuable again, but it still isn't what I'm looking for.
 
thatguybeard said:
Honestly the only thing that would make the dew collector viable for me again is if one dew collector can churn out 60 units of clean water as fast as one stove can. I’d rather get the usable output back as soon as possible than have to go back day after day to add and remove jars. Much easier to fill 60 jars and load them in the stove. I’m also a smoothie fancier.
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I've decided not to install the experimental version for now. What's the maximum number of jars that can be loaded into the dew collector?
 
If a dewcollector with (consumable) filter ingredients would deliver mineral water it should be with lower cost and less heat generation. This would make it more imersive (seems important to some) and it would make it also a continuing background proces instead of a batch process as it is now. The input should be dedicated slots for stacks of filter ingredients, like sand for crude filtering and charcoall for fine filtering and a few for empty jars. The output depends on available ingredients: Murky if jars only, plain water with sand, mineral with sand and charcoal. No need to "order" how many pieces, just keep the input slots filled.

This might require a renewal of recepies mineral water or just adding new recepies for the dewcollector. Maybe even considder a namechange for the collector. In general I think there could be more cases that can do with a rethinking or a differntiation of recepies depending on where (inventory, workstations) the crafting is done. Especialy in the case that workbenches are used you could not build yourself yet.
 
Suxar said:
I've decided not to install the experimental version for now. What's the maximum number of jars that can be loaded into the dew collector?
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They say 9 slots. If you get the 2x mod, you either need 18 jars... or you are getting free jars still, which would really make this change even more ridiculous (my opinion). But I haven't opened 2.6 and don't really intend to anytime soon.
 
We agree. As it is, the dew collector is rather obsolete but should be desirable! put jars in it wait a long time and you can get murky water/water. were as make a tub at your bass, use bucket to get water and fill, you can quickly fill 10 jars and boil on a campfire for water. and now that jars are so easy to make, water itself is not really an issue.

We like survival (the harder the better), so some may not like our solution to this. but what we are doing in our game to try and correct this is look at it from the other end. instead of making dew collector better, make the alternative of collecting with jars and boiling harder/less desirable. this is why some may not like it, as it makes getting water without the dew collector possibly more tedious.


our idea is to first make jars hard to get again (need crucible) so you want to protect the ones you find and have another tear of water between murky and water e.g. clear

murky water does more damage to you if you drink it then vanilla, you get even higher chance to get dysentery and if you don't get dysentery, you get a really high chance to get a nauseas buff that acts like dysentery but not as long and no poop attacks. apart from emergency drinking and putting out flames, you can only filter it.

clear water is the equivalent to murky now. and water is still just water.

made a recipe for clear water that uses the murky water and an empty jar to filter into plus some cloth and takes 20 seconds. at the moment you always loose a jar but would like to find a way you have a chance to get an empty jar back also so there is only a chance you brake one in the process.

changed dew collector to output clear water/water depending on mods installed.


so now
early game your busy looting/buying every empty jar you can get hands on to keep up the water. It takes time to filter and you lose a jar (want this to be could lose a jar).
mid game you get the dew collector up and you don't need to waste time filtering and no chance to lose precious jars.
later game jars are easy to make so just keep the dew collectors toped up and you don't need to worry about water.
 
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A way to make dew collectors useful again:
In addition to murky and drinkable water, there is dirty water which is just non-murky water of questionable quality (so there is a chance for diarrhea while murky water is basically guaranteed illness).

Food and beverages are made with drinkable water. Glue and paint can be made with drinkable or dirty water.
A craftable disposable filter can be used to craft murky water from bodies of water and loot into dirty water. The filter is used up in the process.
Dirty water is treated into drinkable water by boiling it on the campfire.
The dew collector generates dirty water without the filter mod.
With the filter mod (which could be renamed to "antimicrobial filter"), the dew collector generates drinkable water.

Water survival is solved after you can craft the simple filter to get dirty water from murky water.
It becomes really convenient when you craft a dew collector and an antimicrobial filter mod for it.
 
I'm a bit lost. How is the Dew Collector not viable or useful?

Making it produce mineral water seems silly. In real life one would produce murky water. Or, if the goal is to be humorous, how about they produce beer?
 
zztong said:
I'm a bit lost. How is the Dew Collector not viable or useful?

Making it produce mineral water seems silly. In real life one would produce murky water. Or, if the goal is to be humorous, how about they produce beer?
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it requires jars in the new experimental, and jars can be crafted without a crucible now. So, for a high cost, you can build a thing that produces murky water slowly. For an additional cost, you can get clean water. Or for the low, low price of a campfire and a cooking pot and a bucket, you can have infinite clean water in just a few seconds anywhere in your base you want.
 
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