PC I think the main issues remaining with progression are related to crafting

[Deceptive Pastry]

One of the most common things I see from the Devs relating to progression is that they want specialization. I am for this, but I think when it comes to crafting A16 felt way more specialized than it does now. I think these are some of the main problems:

1. High INT requirements. The thing with specializing is, a good handful of the perks are must-haves at least imo. At least a couple points of Pack Mule, Sex Trex, a couple points in mining related stuff, plus attributes/perks related to whatever primary weapon you're using. If you want to do any crafting, regardless of what type whether it be vehicles or ammo, each player will also need that INT investment. Want one person to be the mechanic able to make a 4x4, while another makes shotgun turrets, and a third makes ammo (including rockets)? They all need INT lvl 9 (20 points now?). Or you could much more efficiently just have one person who does all the crafting and save 40 points overall...but that is kind of lame for that player, having to save up and invest nearly all points in INT and related perks while the rest of the party are zombie killing machines. These branches were mostly level-gated before, which we just moved away from this latest patch. You also had different core skills split up between gun crafting, tool crafting, etc. I know they were trying to simplify, but I just feel like the INT really bottlenecks everyone to go heavily down that path regardless of what *type* of crafting they want, and after that requires fairly little further investment.

2. Perhaps the bigger issue...Too many crafting branches packaged into too few perks. Hammer & Forge includes both tools and armor, maybe this one makes decent sense. Adv. Engineering mixes together gun crafting, traps, electrical and a couple other random things. Science mixes mods, ammo, and front-loads a few other items into lvl 1, and is pretty much an obvious buy regardless of what weapon playstyle you're focusing on. I would sooner see these split up into more perks with the unlocked recipes spread out more through the levels, perhaps also with increasing costs but lower INT requirements, so that you can specialize more into what you actually want to craft. This of course makes more sense in MP than SP, but balancing SP seems to be an issue that remains regardless atm.

 

[Katitof]

1. Pack mule can be replaced with mods on armor, removing encumbrance that way, sex t-rex with drinks, durability issues with crafting better armor, mining, no way around it if you want resources, but better tools will obviously work better.

Specialized crafting no longer exists, crafting itself is specialization now, so is shooting, melee fighting/mining and so on.

Specializing is not better in A16, it was simply much less demanding.

Also, you whiny people didn't liked level gates, so kindly shut it and reap what you saw, you want to be a crafty nerd, you will be a crafty nerd, but crafty nerds aren't good fighters or survivalists or physical workers.

Another thing is, you do NOT NEED to go int path at all after you get basic stuff like workbench and forge.

Tools no longer degrade and literally ALL of the parts needed for anything can be got through quests, vendor or looting. Its the high end stuff that is demanding on skill points.

2. Disagree, with int gate its perfectly fine, just in A17 instead of having 10 different crafters doing different stuff, you'll have now 1 main crafter and others with more basic perks. Low/no skills in other attributes will be mostly offset by crafted items and consumables. As for sp, players will actually have to use all the previously completely ignored features, like traders.

 

[Deceptive Pastry]

Also, you whiny people didn't liked level gates, so kindly shut it and reap what you saw, you want to be a crafty nerd, you will be a crafty nerd, but crafty nerds aren't good fighters or survivalists or physical workers.

Lol.

- Saying that trying to offer constructive feedback, the whole point of a public experimental, is whining

- Acting like everyone with criticism is part a hive mind consisting of all the same opinions

- Wasn't even saying level gates need to come back, more that since they want to move away from them, there'd need to be a different way to balance the progression re: crafting.

 

[Katitof]

I like how you addressed all of the actual arguments I've made instead of sarcastic pinch and QQ-ing crowd.

 

[willcheat]

Honestly, they should remove the skill to learn how to craft a workbench/table saw/cement mixer/chemistry table and make it so deconstructing a certain number of those in the wild will eventually teach you how to make one. Break down 2 forges : You know how to make forge. Deconstruct 4 workbenches : you know workbench.

Gives a better use to broken ones (other than a small amount of resources when looting/breaking down) and it forces people to run around and investigate to find stuff.

 

[Guest]

I like how you addressed all of the actual arguments I've made instead of sarcastic pinch and QQ-ing crowd.

If you want people to engage with your "actual arguments", maybe don't preemptively paint people who don't agree with you as whiners?

On topic: I haven't played the current skill system to late game yet, but early game it feels better as far as gating goes. However I am a bit worried that getting late game perks will take too long. And in general I agree that too many universally needed/wanted skills seem to be locked away behind stats investments that suggest specialization, and that INT is kind of mandatory to get anywhere.

Then again a lot of lvl 5 perks currently seem absolutely superfluous. I see no reason to ever go beyond the first two levels of rule number one, for example. Pack mule's first two levels are almost essential, but then pocket mods take over (unless you have terrible luck). Are these late game perks aimed at people who never loot or use the trader?

 

[Deceptive Pastry]

I like how you addressed all of the actual arguments I've made instead of sarcastic pinch and QQ-ing crowd.

"Kindly shut it - but also respond to my arguments"

Also it was mostly disagreement rather than argument, but I will address:

Pack mule can be replaced with mods on armor - Maybe 1-2 weeks in unless you get extremely lucky, I haven't seen one storage mod yet personally but have mostly spent time looting more than trading. My point still stands that most people would want at least a couple points early game.

sex t-rex with drinks - I guess if you want to drink literally every time you want to mine/destroy blocks or are meleeing zombies. Still prob want a couple points of it...

durability issues with crafting better armor - Requires leveling INT?