I propose to do something

[azazar1280]

I am starting to feel this is less of a problem, and more forcing others to play a certain way.   

I would agree with you if my suggestion wasn't an option in the server settings. In the meantime, these are people who confuse anarchy with democracy, hindering the development of the game

 

[RipClaw]

you understand that there is no such setting? Please re-read what the discussion is about

Whether you have a choice does not depend on whether a setting for something is available or not, but only on whether it is possible to do what you want to do. For example, choosing to fight the horde riding a dragon is not possible because there are no dragons in the game, but choosing to fight the horde in your crafting base is possible.

You can also impose restrictions on yourself that could never be added as a settings like you can't craft anything but only have to find everything or you have to spend every night in a different POI or that you only use melee weapons. This is called roleplaying and developers like Mad Mole are a big fans of roleplaying. On some occasions the developers were asked if it would not be possible to add settings, for example, that you can no longer shoot when you climb on a ladder. The answer was always that you should just pretend that it is not possible.

 

[azazar1280]

Whether you have a choice does not depend on whether a setting for something is available or not, but only on whether it is possible to do what you want to do. For example, choosing to fight the horde riding a dragon is not possible because there are no dragons in the game, but choosing to fight the horde in your crafting base is possible.

You can also impose restrictions on yourself that could never be added as a settings like you can't craft anything but only have to find everything or you have to spend every night in a different POI or that you only use melee weapons. This is called roleplaying and developers like Mad Mole are a big fans of roleplaying. On some occasions the developers were asked if it would not be possible to add settings, for example, that you can no longer shoot when you climb on a ladder. The answer was always that you should just pretend that it is not possible.

I understand what isolation you are talking about. But I can't get zombies to destroy my buildings to try and protect them. Not in the server settings, not in the game mod. Can you understand it? Well, except that I will use them instead of walls in all-round defense. This is not what is required. Where does such a perverted ideology come from? Who told you that we should click our toes to make it harder and more interesting for us, instead of setting general rules on the server for all players? You're not right.

 

[zztong]

I agree, this is also a problem, and it seems to me that my proposal will solve it to a large extent. This will force you to be distracted by the defense of the base, which means it will increase the risks and complexity of such a fight.

I don't think its a problem, but running with the assumption it is, how does your proposal solve the issue if the player is nomadic and doesn't have a base?

I find nomadic play to be a lot of fun and play that way from 1/3 to 1/2 the time. It is a challenge on single player, but is a bit easier on multiplayer because you can barter with players for things you might need. Without using a base, you don't need any of the facilities to improve a base, so you don't need to do a lot of smelting or making cement. You mostly just cook and carry around a pot and a grill.

• Will your proposal mean that zombies will attack a lone chest placed in the field across the street from the trader?
  
• Will your proposal mean that zombies will attack and destroy player vehicles?
  
• What happens to a Forge that I leave in a field across from the trader? (Making a replacement is usually easy.)
  

Those would represent long-term storage that arguably belong to a player.

 

[azazar1280]

I don't think its a problem, but running with the assumption it is, how does your proposal solve the issue if the player is nomadic and doesn't have a base?

I find nomadic play to be a lot of fun and play that way from 1/3 to 1/2 the time. It is a challenge on single player, but is a bit easier on multiplayer because you can barter with players for things you might need. Without using a base, you don't need any of the facilities to improve a base, so you don't need to do a lot of smelting or making cement. You mostly just cook and carry around a pot and a grill.

• Will your proposal mean that zombies will attack a lone chest placed in the field across the street from the trader?
  
• Will your proposal mean that zombies will attack and destroy player vehicles?
  
• What happens to a Forge that I leave in a field across from the trader? (Making a replacement is usually easy.)
  

Those would represent long-term storage that arguably belong to a player.

If the chest contains something from the list of "valuable buildings", then yes, zombies should attack this chest.
Cars are the same chest or cars themselves as a value.
If the forge is marked as a valuable structure, then it must also be attacked.
In fact, the valuable structure is the one that the creator of the server has chosen as such a structure. This is the same setting as setting the number of zombies or their difficulty. This will allow everyone to play by the rules that are interesting to him and his friends. Including if the player is nomadic, he simply does not include these rules and will play as usual.
Moreover, through mods, people will be able to mark other especially valuable buildings that are not in the original game, which will also require the organization of their protection.

This will give meaning to all the building blocks. Blocks are not for the sake of blocks, but blocks for the sake of using them, building bases.

 

[RipClaw]

You can also just run around. You don't need to stand on a tough building. Just be in the field and move. Some jars of coffee and you're all set. The Z's fall in line behind you and you just kite them all night.

The funny thing is that fighting the horde on the street is exactly the same. The only difference is that you shoot at the zombies and throw grenades, Molotov cocktails or pipe bombs.

 

[zztong]

The funny thing is that fighting the horde on the street is exactly the same. The only difference is that you shoot at the zombies and throw grenades, Molotov cocktails or pipe bombs.

Yes, exactly. If you rig to fight the horde using mobility (which is a lot of fun) you don't need a base. I suspect the OP will be happy with that as you don't need to stand on a POI either.

 

[azazar1280]

Is this section of the forum visited by developers?

 

[zztong]

Is this section of the forum visited by developers?

Yep.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

Why would a zombie attack a chest, let alone have this unrelenting desire to do so during a blood moon?
Imagine running away from a horde of zombies and throwing down your emergency forge to distract them. It's too silly.

 What I think would be cool is something like:

You can purchase some wacky and expensive EMR device from the trader (or maybe some new important NPC) for zombie research.

It disrupts the effects of the blood moon on nearby zombies, making them target the device instead of you.

You can place it, but it cannot be picked up again once it is activated.

Placing more than one per player deactivates the previous one.

It gathers research when zombies are killed within its radius during the blood moon.

If it is destroyed, you lose any gathered research.

When the blood moon is over, you may collect the research from the device and turn it into the trader/NPC for xp/cash/rewards.

Obviously, if you are too far from the device, the zombies are going to attack you and the kills will not be within its radius and therefore you will not collect any research.

Basically, you have to place this thing and protect it to make some kind of profit. It encourages building defenses, as well as defending actively, and adds another layer to the blood moon. 

 

[Riamus]

This seems like a request to force others to play a certain way.  There isn't anything wrong with hiding from the horde if you want to.  I don't really see why someone would, considering in single player, you can just turn off blood moon if you don't want to use it (and can even turn it on and off throughout a single game of you want) and in multiplayer, you can just not be online during blood moon.  So why bother sitting around on top of a building where they can't reach you?  But there isn't anything wrong with a player who wants to do that.  And in what way does that impact you if they choose too play that way?  Why do you feel the need to force someone to play a different way than they want?  Are you tracking player deaths and are upset that someone has no deaths and you do?  If not that, why is it a problem?

Or is it that you don't want to sit on a building, but are unable to make yourself play a more challenging way because there is an easy way to play and so want the easy way removed so you have no choice?  That just means you need to work on your willpower, not that the game has to change.

As far as zombies attacking bases that players aren't near and bricks and such to increase difficulty, if that is what you want, there are numerous problems with that.  Some have been mentioned, such as chunks not being active and being able to drop items to distract zombies in a very cheesy way.  There is also the issue that if a player wants more than one base, they aren't going to be able to protect all of them at once if zombies can attack ones you are not at.  This is especially a program in single player because you can't even have someone defend one base while you defend another.  If you had to constantly rebuild your base because zombies destroyed it while you were out questing or fighting the horde at another base, that would upset most players.  That isn't a good option.  And if you always had to pick up your vehicles while questing just to avoid zombies destroying them, that would also be a bad thing.

Let people play the game the way they want.  You have control over how you pay the game.  Maybe it isn't complete control, but you can't expect others to play your way just so you can play the way you want.

 

[azazar1280]

This seems like a request to force others to play a certain way.  There isn't anything wrong with hiding from the horde if you want to.  I don't really see why someone would, considering in single player, you can just turn off blood moon if you don't want to use it (and can even turn it on and off throughout a single game of you want) and in multiplayer, you can just not be online during blood moon.  So why bother sitting around on top of a building where they can't reach you?  But there isn't anything wrong with a player who wants to do that.  And in what way does that impact you if they choose too play that way?  Why do you feel the need to force someone to play a different way than they want?  Are you tracking player deaths and are upset that someone has no deaths and you do?  If not that, why is it a problem?

Or is it that you don't want to sit on a building, but are unable to make yourself play a more challenging way because there is an easy way to play and so want the easy way removed so you have no choice?  That just means you need to work on your willpower, not that the game has to change.

As far as zombies attacking bases that players aren't near and bricks and such to increase difficulty, if that is what you want, there are numerous problems with that.  Some have been mentioned, such as chunks not being active and being able to drop items to distract zombies in a very cheesy way.  There is also the issue that if a player wants more than one base, they aren't going to be able to protect all of them at once if zombies can attack ones you are not at.  This is especially a program in single player because you can't even have someone defend one base while you defend another.  If you had to constantly rebuild your base because zombies destroyed it while you were out questing or fighting the horde at another base, that would upset most players.  That isn't a good option.  And if you always had to pick up your vehicles while questing just to avoid zombies destroying them, that would also be a bad thing.

Let people play the game the way they want.  You have control over how you pay the game.  Maybe it isn't complete control, but you can't expect others to play your way just so you can play the way you want.

the question of anarchy and democracy was described above, there is no point in repeating the answers, you probably just missed it. Unfortunately, it's me and my friends that you're trying to get to play the way you want, we have no choice, which is why this post was created. And to play with the left foot so that it is more difficult is willpower?) No, this is stupidity. If we talk about us, then we build a base, protect it, do not miss the night, and we are very depressing that you can jump on a neighboring house and wait it all out and still not lose anything. For us, the seventh day is a challenge and it makes the game interesting for many, it's a pity that the community does not have this understanding. This is probably due to the developers and the pace at which everything is being done. Therefore, only such people remain.

 

[BFT2020]

the question of anarchy and democracy was described above, there is no point in repeating the answers, you probably just missed it. Unfortunately, it's me and my friends that you're trying to get to play the way you want, we have no choice, which is why this post was created. And to play with the left foot so that it is more difficult is willpower?) No, this is stupidity. If we talk about us, then we build a base, protect it, do not miss the night, and we are very depressing that you can jump on a neighboring house and wait it all out and still not lose anything. For us, the seventh day is a challenge and it makes the game interesting for many, it's a pity that the community does not have this understanding. This is probably due to the developers and the pace at which everything is being done. Therefore, only such people remain.

I don't understand.  How are we forcing you to play in the way you describe?  Nobody is forcing you and your friends to climb on top of a tall factory and hide from the blood moon horde.  Nobody is forcing you to build your own base or take over a ultra strong POI to defend against the blood moon horde.  Nobody is forcing you to create a safe crafting base with a separate horde base.  Nobody is forcing you to design your base around exploiting game mechanics.

If you want to build a base that not only serves as your main base, but also your defense against the blood moon horde, then go right ahead and do it.  Nothing is stopping you from doing it.  I do it all the time.

If you want to build a base from scratch, then go ahead and do it.  I do it all the time.  Nothing is stopping you from doing it.

If you want to take over a small POI and build it up over time, nothing is stopping you from doing it.  I did it and had a blast.

If you want to build a base with a backup in case things go sour (you know, play to survive against the horde), then go and do it.

What you are clearly stating in your posts is that you and your friends lack the willpower to let the dice lay where it rolls.  Nobody is forcing you to jump on a neighboring house to escape a horde if your base failed to protect you, that was your choice and your decision (however, the blood moon zombies will still come after you so you are completely safe, and higher level blood moon hordes will quickly tear down a poi that hasn't been fortified further).  What you are describing it not a lack of choice on your part, it is an admission that you lack the willpower to play the way you want to play, and your solution is to force others down that same route.

There is also the option of modding the game.  You want to take away various choices that players have when they play the game, then mod it in so those choices are taken away from you.

 

[Matt115]

I don't understand.  How are we forcing you to play in the way you describe?  Nobody is forcing you and your friends to climb on top of a tall factory and hide from the blood moon horde.  Nobody is forcing you to build your own base or take over a ultra strong POI to defend against the blood moon horde.  Nobody is forcing you to create a safe crafting base with a separate horde base.  Nobody is forcing you to design your base around exploiting game mechanics.

If you want to build a base that not only serves as your main base, but also your defense against the blood moon horde, then go right ahead and do it.  Nothing is stopping you from doing it.  I do it all the time.

If you want to build a base from scratch, then go ahead and do it.  I do it all the time.  Nothing is stopping you from doing it.

If you want to take over a small POI and build it up over time, nothing is stopping you from doing it.  I did it and had a blast.

If you want to build a base with a backup in case things go sour (you know, play to survive against the horde), then go and do it.

What you are clearly stating in your posts is that you and your friends lack the willpower to let the dice lay where it rolls.  Nobody is forcing you to jump on a neighboring house to escape a horde if your base failed to protect you, that was your choice and your decision (however, the blood moon zombies will still come after you so you are completely safe, and higher level blood moon hordes will quickly tear down a poi that hasn't been fortified further).  What you are describing it not a lack of choice on your part, it is an admission that you lack the willpower to play the way you want to play, and your solution is to force others down that same route.

There is also the option of modding the game.  You want to take away various choices that players have when they play the game, then mod it in so those choices are taken away from you.

Azazar1290 is pretty right. It's just too efective to not do this - so that's why  he feel forced. it's like... dunno playing in cod - you can use 40 diffrent guns but 80% use this same guns and perks because are the most effective. So - to solve this maybe there should be redesing of demolisher- it would be pointless to go into tall factory if demolisher zombies will be focused on blowing up wall to collapse building  right?

 

[Riamus]

the question of anarchy and democracy was described above, there is no point in repeating the answers, you probably just missed it. Unfortunately, it's me and my friends that you're trying to get to play the way you want, we have no choice, which is why this post was created. And to play with the left foot so that it is more difficult is willpower?) No, this is stupidity. If we talk about us, then we build a base, protect it, do not miss the night, and we are very depressing that you can jump on a neighboring house and wait it all out and still not lose anything. For us, the seventh day is a challenge and it makes the game interesting for many, it's a pity that the community does not have this understanding. This is probably due to the developers and the pace at which everything is being done. Therefore, only such people remain.

And can you explain why it is a pity that someone who wants to play that way is allowed to?  You aren't forced to play that way and neither are your friends.  You are asking to force others to play your way.  Yet you can play your way already, so there isn't any reason to deny others their right to play their own way.

What exactly is the problem in your game?  Are you going into a roof to hide?  If so, then don't.  Are you friends going on a roof to hide and you don't wasn't them to?  Then ask them not to.  That is between you and them, not the game.

BFT2020 summed it up nicely.  You can play the way you want to.  No reason to deny that right to others.

 

[Matt115]

And can you explain why it is a pity that someone who wants to play that way is allowed to?  You aren't forced to play that way and neither are your friends.  You are asking to force others to play your way.  Yet you can play your way already, so there isn't any reason to deny others their right to play their own way.

What exactly is the problem in your game?  Are you going into a roof to hide?  If so, then don't.  Are you friends going on a roof to hide and you don't wasn't them to?  Then ask them not to.  That is between you and them, not the game.

BFT2020 summed it up nicely.  You can play the way you want to.  No reason to deny that right to others.

It's not working that way. Depending how game designed - people will behave diffrent. People choose what is more optimal - this will broke fun? yes. but this is human nature

 

[RipClaw]

Azazar1290 is pretty right. It's just too efective to not do this - so that's why  he feel forced. it's like... dunno playing in cod - you can use 40 diffrent guns but 80% use this same guns and perks because are the most effective. So - to solve this maybe there should be redesing of demolisher- it would be pointless to go into tall factory if demolisher zombies will be focused on blowing up wall to collapse building  right?

If the Demolisher can demolish a factory building, it can do the same to your Horde base. If you do that then you kill any form of base building because no one would invest time and effort into base building knowing that some stupid zombie is going to come along and tear the place down.

Then everyone just uses any POIs for the hordes night because it doesn't matter if the place collapses or not.

You claim it would be so effective that everyone feels forced to do it that way and yet I see a lot of players building bases to fight the horde and not hiding on a roof until the horde is over. In fact, I have never seen anyone hiding on a roof during the horde. At most they punch a few holes in the ceiling, shoot at the zombies and throw grenades, pipe bombs or Molotov cocktails but that is not the same as hiding.

If you want to get people to build horde bases from scratch instead of using POIs then you need to give them an incentive and not punish them when they don't.

 

[Riamus]

Azazar1290 is pretty right. It's just too efective to not do this - so that's why  he feel forced. it's like... dunno playing in cod - you can use 40 diffrent guns but 80% use this same guns and perks because are the most effective. So - to solve this maybe there should be redesing of demolisher- it would be pointless to go into tall factory if demolisher zombies will be focused on blowing up wall to collapse building  right?

Effective and fun are two different things.  Clearly, he thinks it is not fun to sit on to of the building and hide.  Regardless of whether or not it is effective, if you don't enjoy it, don't do it.  It is also effective to turn off blood moon, but if you like blood moon, turning it off makes no sense.

It's not working that way. Depending how game designed - people will behave diffrent. People choose what is more optimal - this will broke fun? yes. but this is human nature

People choose optimal?  They can, yes.  But more often, in a game, people choose what is fun for them.  I doubt you will find many players who hide on top of a building even if it works.  Why bother having blood moon on if you are going to do that.  Those who don't enjoy blood moon will just turn it off.  Those who do enjoy it aren't going to hide all night.  They are going to fight.  How they fight and where they fight is entirely up to them, but they aren't going to hide.  You will also find that many players enjoy a challenge and so increase the difficulty.  They definitely aren't going to hide.  And the hardcore players and min/max players (those who are going to play as optimally as possible) also aren't going to hide.  You are wrong to think they will.

Ask yourself if you enjoy hiding on a roof even if it is safe.  Do you enjoy being safe or do you enjoy fighting?  If you enjoy fighting, would you prefer to hide and be safe, or would you rather fight?  You seem to be saying that you would rather fight.  So do so.  You don't have to hide, even if it is safe, if you enjoy fighting instead.  The game doesn't have to force you to fight.  You can choose to do so, just like pretty much everyone who plays with blood moon turned on.

 

[Syphon583]

It's not working that way. Depending how game designed - people will behave diffrent. People choose what is more optimal - this will broke fun? yes. but this is human nature

It most certainly is working that way. The VAST majority of players fight during the blood moon. Why? Because THAT is what is more optimal in terms of gaining experience and advancing in the game. Players who choose to hide in a tall building are a niche group and are doing so of their own choice, and if they're not fighting, they aren't getting any experience for simply surviving the night. If that's what they find optimal to their playstyle, then more power to them.

Making the changes you suggest will force players into a single playstyle, and that is what players have been complaining about with several of the changes in the past.

 

[Matt115]

If the Demolisher can demolish a factory building, it can do the same to your Horde base. If you do that then you kill any form of base building because no one would invest time and effort into base building knowing that some stupid zombie is going to come along and tear the place down.

Then everyone just uses any POIs for the hordes night because it doesn't matter if the place collapses or not.

You claim it would be so effective that everyone feels forced to do it that way and yet I see a lot of players building bases to fight the horde and not hiding on a roof until the horde is over. In fact, I have never seen anyone hiding on a roof during the horde. At most they punch a few holes in the ceiling, shoot at the zombies and throw grenades, pipe bombs or Molotov cocktails but that is not the same as hiding.

If you want to get people to build horde bases from scratch instead of using POIs then you need to give them an incentive and not punish them when they don't.

So if would they colapse building maybe... better option is just do "ww1" - tons of barbed wire and spikes right?  So demolisher will died on spike nad blow up them - so .... this will be not "vital" like colapsing building.  Well i saw guys who making "towers" like - well exploting AI - so yes they were "fighing" but this was  literaly meat grinder ( only repairing was neccesary)

Effective and fun are two different things.  Clearly, he thinks it is not fun to sit on to of the building and hide.  Regardless of whether or not it is effective, if you don't enjoy it, don't do it.  It is also effective to turn off blood moon, but if you like blood moon, turning it off makes no sense.

People choose optimal?  They can, yes.  But more often, in a game, people choose what is fun for them.  I doubt you will find many players who hide on top of a building even if it works.  Why bother having blood moon on if you are going to do that.  Those who don't enjoy blood moon will just turn it off.  Those who do enjoy it aren't going to hide all night.  They are going to fight.  How they fight and where they fight is entirely up to them, but they aren't going to hide.  You will also find that many players enjoy a challenge and so increase the difficulty.  They definitely aren't going to hide.  And the hardcore players and min/max players (those who are going to play as optimally as possible) also aren't going to hide.  You are wrong to think they will.

Ask yourself if you enjoy hiding on a roof even if it is safe.  Do you enjoy being safe or do you enjoy fighting?  If you enjoy fighting, would you prefer to hide and be safe, or would you rather fight?  You seem to be saying that you would rather fight.  So do so.  You don't have to hide, even if it is safe, if you enjoy fighting instead.  The game doesn't have to force you to fight.  You can choose to do so, just like pretty much everyone who plays with blood moon turned on.

People play over and over in cod using this same gun. It's fun? for most not. just the most effective. So it's much more effective just camp like skyscrapper and just broke stairs - blood moon will end faster - you would just kiling spider and vultures. 

It most certainly is working that way. The VAST majority of players fight during the blood moon. Why? Because THAT is what is more optimal in terms of gaining experience and advancing in the game. Players who choose to hide in a tall building are a niche group and are doing so of their own choice, and if they're not fighting, they aren't getting any experience for simply surviving the night. If that's what they find optimal to their playstyle, then more power to them.

Making the changes you suggest will force players into a single playstyle, and that is what players have been complaining about with several of the changes in the past.

Fun facts - gainering experience here is such pointless as  oblivion - yes you get access to better stuff but there will be better zombies - so progress is ilusionar now. it's no longer A11 when you could meet wright 1 day.  Demolisher spawn on 153 gamestage - so if you want for example - survive 30 days - the best option is lvl up slowly