PC I gotta know

[Roland]

Not surprising. Nothing else is in the way for the moment. It's a product, if incomplete as yet, being sold as a product in what I think of as an "old school" kind of way, among the many reasons I've supported it myself. Despite that I specifically said that I'm not to going argue one way or the other, you go right ahead and try to portray me any you like ("fist in the air," etc.). That's a reflection on you and doesn't affect me in the least.

Have a nice day.

"fist in the air" was simply a visual of you protesting. Maybe it's your name that inspired that image to me. You are welcome to your beliefs about the current and future state of the industry. I sympathize that they negatively affect your enjoyment of this hobby. I enjoy video games just as much if not more than when I was a kid. I recently got a Meta Quest and VR is just magical and at times brings me wonder like I haven't experienced since I was a child. When you said we can't sit and relax and play video games any more I felt like you were the one projecting your own feelings onto gamers as a whole and I wanted to emphatically state that your views don't apply to me and they don't affect my enjoyment of the hobby.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

I felt like you were the one projecting your own feelings onto gamers as a whole

Understandable. I'm primarily thinking of the never-ending "gaming is dead" and "why I didn't enjoy this or that" and "this or that was 'lifeless' and 'soulless'" and what have you YouTube videos and articles and blog posts and what not coming forth like an avalanche from the gaming community these days.

 

[Riamus]

Understandable. I'm primarily thinking of the never-ending "gaming is dead" and "why I didn't enjoy this or that" and "this or that was 'lifeless' and 'soulless'" and what have you YouTube videos and articles and blog posts and what not coming forth like an avalanche from the gaming community these days.

Easier to ignore all that junk.  A lot of it isn't even what the person really believes and is just to get a reaction.  Yes, there are issues with some games and some developers these days that we didn't have in the past, but then again, there were issues in the past that we don't have today.  There are still plenty of good games out there.  There is also the issue as you get older of wanting a bit more out of a game than what you wanted when younger, which can make newer games feel like they aren't as good.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

A lot of it isn't even what the person really believes

A lot, maybe, but not all. The issue is industry wide, especially in the triple A space, and I've absolutely no interest in the "influencer" phenomenon myself. I'm very picky when it comes to media consumption in general and listen primarily to those who actually have something to say as opposed to clickbait mongers. BGS, Bioware, Arkane.... The list goes on of studios that were flying high... until the industry was bitten by the "live service," formerly 'F2P', "let's go whaling" bug and were pressured from on high into making games they had no experience making and, in some cases at least, likely didn't even want to make.

That "whaling" video is positively sickening to me and that mentality has been adopted across the board in the industry, though not necessarily by everyone in it. Pretty much why I'm personally spending so much time in the indie space now. It's not been spared the ignomious influence, but is still relatively free of outright psy ops.

There's a lot I don't like about 7DTD and I'm sure some would just as soon not hear it, but there's no question in my mind that TFP have been transparent and above board about what they're doing on the business end of things thus far. So I don't have much patience with the "we're the consumers and, therefore, always right" mentality, either. What I have to wonder is why they think of themselves as consumers as opposed to the human beings they are and have a working theory about why that is.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

Clothing is gone for good.  There will be a clothing/armor/wardrobe update

In which case, clothing is not necessarily gone for good?

Best solution to clipping issues and all that rot I've seen to date was a mod for Fallout 4 that allowed you to render armor pieces invisible, if desired. Obviously, BGS picked up on that and implemented a similar system in FO76, which renders armor invisible -- without your input -- if you simply don a wardrobe item. (Guess they missed or skipped the player agency step in that mod.)

 

[Riamus]

In which case, clothing is not necessarily gone for good?

Clothing as separate items are gone.  There could obviously be "armor" that looks like clothing, but you won't have a bunch of extra clothing slots anymore.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

There could obviously be "armor" that looks like clothing

In which case.... Bummer?

That does appear to be the direction TFP is going in with the "farmer" outfit and the "mining" outfit, etc. So, I wouldn't be surprised.

It would be nice if we were all mind readers and knew precisely what TFP have in mind, but of course, we're not. Actually, I'm not sure mindreading would be such a good thing.

 

[Roland]

I just haven't put on the mind reader outfit. It's only $1.99...

 

[SGT]

thats just disappointing Clothing and armor made the game so much better. the new armor is just for looks. what purpose does it serve 

 

[Riamus]

And what does clothing do that is different from looks?  It isn't any different other than now slots for mods and more options for how you look.  Otherwise, it is the same.  Yes, temperature resistance is temporarily not an issue, but that is only temporary until the weather update. 

I purposely hid the armor and clothing before because it looked so bad.  Now, I like the way my character looks.  I would call that an improvement.

 

[Roland]

thats just disappointing Clothing and armor made the game so much better. the new armor is just for looks. what purpose does it serve 

Weather, environment, and radiation effects have been turned off for now. Once they get turned back on, the new armor will serve for looks, attack damage protection, and environmental protection. It will have all the functionality of the old clothing and armor for survival gameplay purposes and also deliver on the looks.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

And what does clothing do that is different from looks?

I think the affinity for clothing has more to do with characterization than looks. A lot of roleplayers are playing the game and roleplay is about much more than simply builds on the technical end of things and/or what you happen to be responsible for doing if playing in a team, e.g. mining or harvesting or what have you. 

7DTD is not a roleplaying game from my perspective and I don't expect its story mode will change that, so I also don't expect anything more than an avatar. It is primarily multiplayer, after all, despite that it can be played solo. 7DTD isn't in the vein of a TTRPG, but I can completely understand some players wishing to "look the part" if they're attempting to roleplay in it.

 

[Riamus]

I think the affinity for clothing has more to do with characterization than looks. A lot of roleplayers are playing the game and roleplay is about much more than simply builds on the technical end of things and/or what you happen to be responsible for doing if playing in a team, e.g. mining or harvesting or what have you. 

7DTD is not a roleplaying game from my perspective and I don't expect its story mode will change that, so I also don't expect anything more than an avatar. It is primarily multiplayer, after all, despite that it can be played solo. 7DTD isn't in the vein of a TTRPG, but I can completely understand some players wishing to "look the part" if they're attempting to roleplay in it.

Right, but that's exactly what I was saying... you "look the part" because the clothing/armor or armor alone is about looks.  What I was responding to was that the new armor is all about looks.  Well, so is the old armor/clothing.  That's not a problem, but it negates the statement that the new armor is [worse] (implied) because it is all about looks.  Now, as I mentioned, the new armor does have fewer options for customization because there are currently few armor sets available and you only have 4 pieces instead of many more (I forget how many there were before... 7 or 8 or something).  I think we'll get more armor, some free, some paid.  That will help.  But it won't be the same.  There may also eventually be mods that add their own armor or clothing or even add back in the separate clothing slots.  But I think vanilla will not go back to separate clothing items.  There'd be no reason to update/change the UI if they planned to keep clothing or add it back.  If anything, maybe the wardrobe system will allow you to "wear" some of the old clothing or armor for people who are nostalgic, though I wouldn't get my hopes up for that.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

the clothing/armor or armor alone is about looks

Split hairs, but the important bit is "part," i.e. writing and playing a character in a story much like a writer and an actor would, which is not all about looks. Try to see the nuance in play. A RPG's lore, story and characterizations are of ultimate importance to roleplayers because that's what they're playing off of. The "costume" is merely a finisher -- the tip of the imaginative iceberg -- and I can completely understand, if no one else can, why some players of 7DTD are lamenting the loss of clothing in the game. There are armor sets, but no "costumes" to wear that reflect the character they've written for themselves.

I understand completely from whence the confusion comes. Proper RPGs are an endangered species and highly likely to go extinct altogether because publishers balk at the idea of studios developing content players, if not roleplayers, may never see in a RPG, despite that roleplayers most certainly would because they'll want to see how actual, meaningful choices and consequences unfold and play out in a RPG game world and exhaust every possible permutation of them. That's precisely what accounted for the replayability of traditional RPGs, e.g. Fallouts 1 & 2 and New Vegas, but publishers think it's too expensive to produce such a game today.

Now, Rick swears 7DTD is a RPG. It is not. It's a sandbox game with "RPG elements," a term I despise, but that's beside the point. Sandbox games are pretty much all that's left for traditional roleplayers to play. Proper RPGs very simply are rarely made anymore and when they are, they're generally superficial to a fault, if not at all RPGs. Some are calling playing around in such sandboxes "true RPG" because it's up to the player's imagination to create everything about it story and characterization-wise, but I'm afraid I'll never fall for that. It was the "Interplay" between developer and player that defined RPGs in the past. Now, we're expected to just sit back and passively "consume" the media presented to us. No imagination on our part either required or desired. And that's a death sentence for truly interactive media.

Can you see where they're coming from now?