I gave storms a chance but im glad they are being changed

[grz__]

No, in the current implementation, you can only eat one bandage after another to heal, but you can't do anything to reduce the effects of the storm while you're outside. Imagine a player being attacked by a zombie and simply eating bandages in response instead of fighting back or running away. Sounds pretty stupid, but that's exactly what you and some others in this forum are suggesting as a countermeasure against a storm.

It's a storm, not an enemy you can kill.

How do you protect yourself from a storm in real life? By taking shelter. That's the concept of the storm that you don't understand.

No, I can mine resources underground during a storm without any problems. I know that.

It's just that storms are extremely annoying. You set foot outside and immediately the countdown starts, and when it reaches zero, your character makes a groaning sound and you lose HP for no other reason than being outside. In that short time, I can't even load my loot into my vehicle without taking damage. It's just annoying. Or imagine you're a player who likes to build their base in the desert or in the snow. You're out building, and when the storm comes, you have to seek shelter and can only twiddle your thumbs until it's over.

It's your opinion that it's tedious, but I don't think so. If you build your base in a hostile environment, you have to adapt to that environment. It's your decision. I get the impression that many complaints about the storm boil down to “I don't want to be interrupted

You always argue based on the assumption that the player has some kind of motorized vehicle at their disposal and never that they might be traveling on foot or, relatively early in the game, by bicycle. You might as well assume that the player has an M60 and an inventory full of ammunition at all times.

And I find it funny when people say they don't like debuffs. That's the whole point of a debuff. It's something that puts you at a disadvantage. You have to figure out how to compensate for that disadvantage, either through tactics or other methods.

If you decide to enter the most dangerous biomes in the early days when you are not prepared, it is your decision, and you will have to accept the consequences.


And why do you think a debuff system will be so different from what we have now? In the end, many people won't want to go out in the storm because their speed and stamina will be penalized, and they'll stay inside. I'm not against debuffs, but basing storms on that seems silly to me. For starters, debuffs should be related to temperature, so in my opinion, they should be complemented with damage.

 

[theFlu]

The biggest change I'd propose to the current is to have it be phased, and not always grow into a full storm. Take out the UI-warnings, replace that with a horrible weather in the world. First stage storm then gives a small debuff, like 1 HP / 10s (but could be just stamina or whatever), second stage is worse and a third is basically unsurvivable, at least in the long term.

Have them start, get to phase one or two and then fade again, often. Only sometimes turning into an "actually deadly" storm in between.

Now, whenever you get into a "naturally" bad weather, you'll be a bit worried; when the first stage hits, you'll actually fear it. But for the most part you'll be mostly fine either way.

Implementing The Threat doesn't need the active dying that much.

 

[meganoth]

The current iterations DoT is so punishing that unless you've got medical supplies to burn, there's no point in trying to traverse during the storm.
I think a movespeed penalty still make sense, (sure it will need more balancing, most everything needs a little touch up.) I know it's not fun to travel while movespeed debuffed, but if you're pretty much locked in place as is, then it's a pretty nice upgrade, combined with faster, more agressive Z's and (lower tier) vehicles being hard to use in the storm and I think if anything we'd see players attempt to push through the storm, sometimes with success, sometimes to get swarmed.

Unless they've been changed since I last played, you gotta stop under shelter every minute and eat another bandage if you're trying to get anywhere. At no point did I suggest you should have to be able to stand outside in the storm with no consequence,

or without doing anything different. -For the record, I think it makes sense that the storm damages you(But at like half it's current rate) - or perhaps adds a stacking debuff that lowers max XP that is recovered by waiting indoors. I don't know why you insist that by wanting changes to them means I want them to be ignorable completely- quite the contrary, I ignore them completely now because I've shut them off- and it seems many other have as well, even TFP are reworking them, and I'm hoping that the next implementation will feel like something I want to be present in the world and that I want to engage with.

Because of the delay of my answer you may have forgotten the sequence of arguments here:

If you recall, you replied to a comment I made to RipClaw, and I explained why I said it to HIM, not you. Therefore I did not suggest anything about your position nor do I insist that you want something. In fact the only remark I made about your position in this was to agree that the duration of the storm is probably too long

I suggest something about RipClaws position and if I am wrong there he is the only one who could clear up any misunderstandings if there are any.

 

[grz__]

The biggest change I'd propose to the current is to have it be phased, and not always grow into a full storm. Take out the UI-warnings, replace that with a horrible weather in the world. First stage storm then gives a small debuff, like 1 HP / 10s (but could be just stamina or whatever), second stage is worse and a third is basically unsurvivable, at least in the long term.

Have them start, get to phase one or two and then fade again, often. Only sometimes turning into an "actually deadly" storm in between.

Now, whenever you get into a "naturally" bad weather, you'll be a bit worried; when the first stage hits, you'll actually fear it. But for the most part you'll be mostly fine either way.

Implementing The Threat doesn't need the active dying that much.

Something similar to that would be fine, as long as the “dangerous or deadly” phase was common and not something rare to see. Of course, an option that allows you to modify everything in the menu would be ideal.

But yes, a kind of circle in which the outer edges of the storm are phase 1 (mild), the middle is phase 2 (moderate), and phase 3 is the eye of the storm (intense), with the possibility of moving around and visual changes in the clouds and wind as you move from one phase to another. But is TFP going to program something like that? I don't think so.

 

[theFlu]

But yes, a kind of circle in which the outer edges of the storm are phase 1 (mild), the middle is phase 2 (moderate), and phase 3 is the eye of the storm (intense),

Yup, that would be a decent "simulation", all you need is a randomized center coordinate moving across the map, with a strength proportional to the radius. Basically tracking three values per storm (x,y and R) and counting player distance to the center when deciding what a player sees.

But even the current system, where the storms are bound to entire biomes, would be better with more of a slow in-world buildup and varying effects.

As to how common the deadly phase should be, yeah, it'd need to be common enough for players to learn to fear it; and fear it for a reason. That could be achieved with as little as a fifth of the starting storms, maybe even less. Hard to say what would be optimal, depends a little on exactly how punishing the worst stages are etc etc.

 

[meganoth]

No, in the current implementation, you can only eat one bandage after another to heal, but you can't do anything to reduce the effects of the storm while you're outside. Imagine a player being attacked by a zombie and simply eating bandages in response instead of fighting back or running away. Sounds pretty stupid, but that's exactly what you and some others in this forum are suggesting as a countermeasure against a storm.

Is changing clothes like in the old temperature system "fighting back" as well or is it "simply" changing clothes instead of "fighting back"? Is eating "fighting back" hunger or "simply" eating. By describing it differently you make it seem different, but in all cases you use some items to counter effects done by the environmental effect. Sometimes the item is not used up like with clothes, sometimes it is like with food or bandages.

But while I don't buy your argument I also have said repeatedly that a consumable to reduce the storm effects would be a great addition to the game, especially with the current balance. It could reduce the damage greatly or prolong the safety time for example. So as long as this consumable would give you the feeling to "fight back" then we would be in agreement.

No, I can mine resources underground during a storm without any problems. I know that.

It's just that storms are extremely annoying. You set foot outside and immediately the countdown starts, and when it reaches zero, your character makes a groaning sound and you lose HP for no other reason than being outside. In that short time, I can't even load my loot into my vehicle without taking damage. It's just annoying. Or imagine you're a player who likes to build their base in the desert or in the snow. You're out building, and when the storm comes, you have to seek shelter and can only twiddle your thumbs until it's over.

The countdown and groaning sounds have a great psychologically effect, this is why I said in a previous post that the damage could be reduced and it would still have the desired effect of making players adapt to it. I am absolutely for this change. Or even better for a consumable that does the change. Not to mention that WE HAVE such a consumable already, it just needs to be extended to work against storms as well as the initial hazards

You always argue based on the assumption that the player has some kind of motorized vehicle at their disposal and never that they might be traveling on foot or, relatively early in the game, by bicycle. You might as well assume that the player has an M60 and an inventory full of ammunition at all times.

I argue that because there are no storms in the forest. I would assume most players get a minibike before or very shortly after going into the first biome with storm effects. Because on foot or with a bicycle a player is simply not mobile enough and without enough mobile storage to conquer the longer distances when you go into other biomes and either relocate your stuff or regularily travel between biomes. Even if he rushes it I would assume better vehicles would be a top priority for him.

And that would mean, if there is a window of time at all where the player is in a storm biome without minibike or better, it should be fairly short.

And I find it funny when people say they don't like debuffs. That's the whole point of a debuff. It's something that puts you at a disadvantage. You have to figure out how to compensate for that disadvantage, either through tactics or other methods.

Yeah sure, that I don't like a speed debuff is very personal and I think I mentioned that at the end of my post for completeness sake.
But the rest of my argument was not about that dislike but about A) that a speed debuff is hard to balance and B) that a speed debuff is absolutely necessary or most players will simply ignore storm debuffs because they can drive away from any danger fast enough.

 

[Ralathar44]

You are not blocked from Traversal. I dunno why people keep saying that.

1) You have like 70 seconds of warning to get to a POI before the storm hits.
2) The storm will take about 10 hits to kill you. That's another 70+ seconds.

You can go a long long way in that time. I've tested it via minibike and bicycle. Storm warning pops, i dump everything into a box, and make my way to a POI. Then I run the place while the storm rages. And in any subdivision or urban area you can easily make it between buildings even during the storm.


Literally the only time I've felt trapped is when not quite done looting a POI yet knowing i'll finish looting and then the storm will be in effect so I can't leave AND there are no other POIs around.

 

[grz__]

Yup, that would be a decent "simulation", all you need is a randomized center coordinate moving across the map, with a strength proportional to the radius. Basically tracking three values per storm (x,y and R) and counting player distance to the center when deciding what a player sees.

But even the current system, where the storms are bound to entire biomes, would be better with more of a slow in-world buildup and varying effects.

As to how common the deadly phase should be, yeah, it'd need to be common enough for players to learn to fear it; and fear it for a reason. That could be achieved with as little as a fifth of the starting storms, maybe even less. Hard to say what would be optimal, depends a little on exactly how punishing the worst stages are etc etc.

I have no idea how it would be done, but it would be better than going from a splendid day to hell a block away, and players could move through the different phases of the storm, all accompanied by different visuals, colors, lightning frequency, cloud volume, etc.

Anyway, dreaming is free.

As for the severity of the deadly phase, I believe that, considering the possibilities of escaping from the center of the storm in that system, it should be sufficiently deadly.

 

[theFlu]

Anyway, dreaming is free.

Sadly, yeh

considering the possibilities of escaping from the center of the storm in that system, it should be sufficiently deadly.

Indeed, at least if the player is given a way to figure out which way to run - to not end up running along with the storm. Something to show where the storm is moving. (Clouds, wind effects, map, straight up indicator arrows, whatnot.. )

 

[Roland]

But there is one option you don't have. You can't endure the storm outside.

If a storm gave you a strong debuff instead of just draining your health, you could take the risk of staying outside, but you would need to adjust your strategy. For instance, if your attacks were slowed down and your stamina regeneration was reduced, you would need to avoid power attacks.

At the moment, zombies outside temporarily have feral senses during a storm and move faster. If you were outside, you would have to take that into account. But when you're in a POI, it doesn't matter anyway.

You can’t endure the storm in the early game without using a lot of meds but once your HP reaches 150+ and you are able to craft first aid kits they are pretty simple to endure.

There are changes coming that will make storms even easier to endure but they are still going to damage your health. That’s what makes them hazardous storms. People get killed by storm exposure all the time. They don’t just get an annoying debuff that goes away after the storm stops.

 

[Roland]

As it stands, right now it feels really bad if you're wrapping up a quest and a storm's coming, pretty much locking you inside.. Sure you can break down the location further, but chances are you'll still be stuck there doing nothing for quite some time. At first, I was excited for storms, I had boosted them to 200% for my first impressions, then back to 100.. then to 50, then I just disabled them altogether- I think this is concerning because normally I'm all for mechanics like that slow down progression, but also I think there's been an overwhelming outcry that they need some kind of alterations.

I agree that there are unfortunate moments where the timing of a storm results in the player having to just wait it out. But, there are also amazing thrilling moments created by the timing of a storm’s arrival.

In my plays, I found the moments where all you can do is wait pretty rare. In most cases you could still play despite the storm or even race the arrival of the storm to your next destination where there would be more to do. Finally, as I mentioned in the other post, as your character progresses and gains better access to first aid kits, you can easily remain outside for the entire storm. That’s the type of progression gameplay I enjoy.

That difference in ability to withstand a storm between early to late game is going to be diminished somewhat by the changes coming which will make it easier to stay outside in storms from the very beginning. But all in all the changes will be seen as improvements by most.

 

[Roland]

And why do you think a debuff system will be so different from what we have now? In the end, many people won't want to go out in the storm because their speed and stamina will be penalized, and they'll stay inside. I'm not against debuffs, but basing storms on that seems silly to me. For starters, debuffs should be related to temperature, so in my opinion, they should be complemented with damage.

This is true. There used to be a death penalty that reduced stamina and slowed the character for 60 realtime minutes and the community freaked out. TFP reduced the time to 30 and then 20 minutes but people were still angry and players would just sit in their base and go AFK until the timer ran down and they could play at full strength. A19 maybe?

TFP finally nixed it.

 

[RipClaw]

This is true. There used to be a death penalty that reduced stamina and slowed the character for 60 realtime minutes and the community freaked out. TFP reduced the time to 30 and then 20 minutes but people were still angry and players would just sit in their base and go AFK until the timer ran down and they could play at full strength. A19 maybe?

It was A17.

From the release notes:

* Near Death Trauma (Lowers your master attributes for a day if you die)

I preferred the death penalty before. It reduced your maximum HP, but with the right food, you could increase it bit by bit.

 

[RipClaw]

You can’t endure the storm in the early game without using a lot of meds but once your HP reaches 150+ and you are able to craft first aid kits they are pretty simple to endure.

Even though I can survive it, it's still annoying. The worst thing is the constant groaning.

There are changes coming that will make storms even easier to endure but they are still going to damage your health. That’s what makes them hazardous storms. People get killed by storm exposure all the time. They don’t just get an annoying debuff that goes away after the storm stops.

Don't tell me that realism suddenly matters.

Maybe the Fun Pimps should take a cue from the storms in the game Icarus. Not only do the storms in this game have different effects on the player depending on the biome, but their intensity also varies. If you're exposed to the storm for too long, you'll suffer damage but this takes a lot longer than in 7 Days to die.

 

[Eduho]

Personally, I like how the storms are now, maybe I would also add storms to the pine forest, it's fine that this biome is easier, but why not add storms to it? Regardless of the damage, slower, with poor visibility, as you see fit, but there should be some danger in the pine forest, or is the apocalypse only in the other biomes? And I repeat, as they are now, I like them, a 10.

 

[Rotor]

Even though I can survive it, ......but this takes a lot longer than in 7 Days to die.

I mean if you lasted 7 days to die, what is complain?

 

[Adam the Waster]

This is true. There used to be a death penalty that reduced stamina and slowed the character for 60 realtime minutes and the community freaked out. TFP reduced the time to 30 and then 20 minutes but people were still angry and players would just sit in their base and go AFK until the timer ran down and they could play at full strength. A19 maybe?

TFP finally nixed it.

i would like it as a setting and in order to fet your stamina and hp back you need to complete your xp debt

 

[grz__]

This is true. There used to be a death penalty that reduced stamina and slowed the character for 60 realtime minutes and the community freaked out. TFP reduced the time to 30 and then 20 minutes but people were still angry and players would just sit in their base and go AFK until the timer ran down and they could play at full strength. A19 maybe?

TFP finally nixed it.

some debuff can be very intrusive, like lowering your level by dying, others can be fair, like breaking your leg, starvation and thirst debuff are more of a reminder that you have to eat and drink than something that is really going to affect you. the same with the temperature before it affects you, you will remedy it with your clothes, if you apply this to the storm the result is very simple, you trivialize the storm and that is exactly what I would not like, think about infections, if you get infected you go to your base and take an antibiotic if you don't have it on you, the result is a simple click on the mouse, in the end the damage is another debuff but one that you will not be able to remedy simply by clicking on the mouse, and you will be at risk due to low health. supplementing stamina temperature damage in the storm would be the key in my opinion.

 

[RipClaw]

I mean if you lasted 7 days to die, what is complain?

Do you really need to rip quotes out of context and piece them together?

 

[grz__]

Personally, I like how the storms are now, maybe I would also add storms to the pine forest, it's fine that this biome is easier, but why not add storms to it? Regardless of the damage, slower, with poor visibility, as you see fit, but there should be some danger in the pine forest, or is the apocalypse only in the other biomes? And I repeat, as they are now, I like them, a 10.

I agree even if it is 100% visual only in the forest