PC I finally found a way to make the game interesting

[Roland]

And i'm furiouse when people  use realistic as diffrent name of hardcore XD

Well I'm furious about your hardcore expectations of newstands on city streets. 

 

[Matt115]

Well I'm furious about your hardcore expectations of newstands on city streets. 

I KNOW I WILL TALK WITH @madmole .... VERY PERSONALY IF THEM WILL BE NOT PERFECT ! < EVIL CARTOON VILLAIN LAUGHT!>

Btw i don't mean you think realistic=hardcore. 

I think @bachgaman thinks this way

 

[Morloc]

lol...my brother mods the game so that the trader is open 24/7. He loves all night shopping...

What ~would~ be pretty cool would be a 24 hr trader who's prices were quite stiff at night.

-Arch Necromancer Morloc

 

[Roland]

What ~would~ be pretty cool would be a 24 hr trader who's prices were quite stiff at night.

-Arch Necromancer Morloc

That would work better than a teleporting forcefield for me. Knowing that the prices would be cheaper in daylight would keep my cheapskate butt out of there until the sale started.

 

[Kyonshi]

That would work better than a teleporting forcefield for me. Knowing that the prices would be cheaper in daylight would keep my cheapskate butt out of there until the sale started.

Traders would raise prices at night since they would be @%$#ed off having their sleep disturbed by your presence.

And Rekt would just simply @%$#ing shoot at you from his bedroom window.

 

[bachgaman]

I must have missed where the game forces you to keep playing if you die.  7D2D does not force you to keep playing the same game if you die, that is the player's choice.

• Some people play like you do, if you die you start over - The game allows you to do exactly that
  
• Some people play where if you die, it resets everything - The game allows them to do exactly that
  
• Others like me make the decision based on how I died - glitch, keep playing; do something stupid, start all over - The game allows me to do exactly that
  

The game also allows you to modify the dying penalty if you want to be punished for dying, but keep playing.  I have seen a few mods that do that.

Expected response. Live your imagination, apply mods, apply manual editing of xml files, blah blah blah. I have already answered similar above. What if in Pac-Man the game didn't end after 3 lives, but continued for as long as you like? And to someone asking "Why can't you lose in this game? Why does it exist?" people like you answer "Well, you can decide for yourself when you lost. For example, after 3 deaths. Or after 1. Or after 10,000. Or as soon as you started this game." This is hypocrisy. I can just as well say that this game does not need a flying AI robot because you can imagine that you have one. Just imagine that it is. Why do you really need it? Imagine, imagine the new HD textures and twitch integration as if it exists. It's as easy as coming up with a reason to create a new world after accidental death. How about playing in a group? Should I fantasize that I have resurrected an ally? Or maybe the game is not needed at all? After all, you can lie in bed and imagine how you play 7DTD

 

[Roland]

Expected response. Live your imagination, apply mods, apply manual editing of xml files, blah blah blah. I have already answered similar above. What if in Pac-Man the game didn't end after 3 lives, but continued for as long as you like? And to someone asking "Why can't you lose in this game? Why does it exist?" people like you answer "Well, you can decide for yourself when you lost. For example, after 3 deaths. Or after 1. Or after 10,000. Or as soon as you started this game." This is hypocrisy. I can just as well say that this game does not need a flying AI robot because you can imagine that you have one. Just imagine that it is. Why do you really need it? Imagine, imagine the new HD textures and twitch integration as if it exists. It's as easy as coming up with a reason to create a new world after accidental death. How about playing in a group? Should I fantasize that I have resurrected an ally? Or maybe the game is not needed at all? After all, you can lie in bed and imagine how you play 7DTD

I get that you can't do a perm death when playing with a group unless everyone agrees that if anyone dies then everyone restarts so you can all stay together. But what about delete all on death? Do you play with that setting?

 

[bachgaman]

Okay, that is a way to see it, I take back the sarcasm. Just to be sure, you know that dying removes XP, dying often would even prevent you from advancing in levels at all, right? It may be weak but the penalty is there.

Losing respect for the penalty depends on knowing and exploiting the internal mechanism of gamestage. It depends on the knowledge that gamestage does not increase over time if your level doesn't advance and that zombies don't get worse when your gamestage doesn't go higher. My opinion is that this should not be common knowledge, this is an internal balancing trick.

The last time I played with my friends, they died 40+ times in 40 days. Not because they are mentally disabled, but because they know that they will get nothing for it. And because of this, they don't try to survive. So when we finally built the base and took the bloody horde head-on, they practically caught up with me in levels. Such a punishment. If you play solo, then perhaps this can be considered a punishment if you ignore one nuance that you indicated below. The more you die, the lower the game stage and the easier it is to play. Haha. The game rewards weak dying players by making it easier for them to play. It's just great. Yes, along with this they find the appropriate loot, but does anyone care about that. What loot will give you immortality? Especially if you don't care if you die or not.

But there is another problem here, independant of this: Whatever you do with the survival part of the game there is no punishment that really changes anything until you have a goal you want to reach and dying moves you away from your goal. Why would someone care if he lost a level if reaching a certain level is not part of his goal?

The answer is two-fold:

1) Once bandits are in, there will be a bona-fide goal to reach: Kill the leader of one or both factions and possibly take their place. And I assume that those leaders won't be gamestaged so far down that you can take them on with a lvl 1 toon. And then even the weak death penalty we have now IS a punishment.

2) In the mean-time this is also a sandbox game and absent of a set goal you are supposed to choose your own goal.

* When asked to implement a "dead is dead" mode in 7D2D the developers (as far as I remember) said to just delete the game when you die. So one possible choice for goal you can make would be to stay alive until you reach a certain level and play "dead is dead". Someone doesn't have enough self-control for that? Sorry, that is his own fault, grow up,

* Other players simply set their goal at mastering an ability or make a well-proteced base that can survive demolishers or play until there is a feeling to have reached anything reachable in the game (i.e. quality 6 items, map explored...). Once you have such a goal, dying is a punishment and dying often can lead to you never reaching the goal.

* For other players dying for gain is simply not an option and every death is simply a failure, just not a complete failure. At the end of the game having died only once is a much bigger success than having died 5 times. This can be a goal as well.

So my answer to you is that the survival part in 7D2D is not completed, but true to it being a sandbox game too it already is a surivival game if you accept your responsibility to set yourself a goal, one possibility actually being "not to die"

Do not deceive me or yourself by claiming that this game may have some goals other than survival. Yes, for the first time it's really fun to build traps, build a car, or build a gyrocopter. But this is done in the first 30 hours of gameplay, and this is if you play slowly without looking at videos and guides and if you studying everything yourself. Ultimately, all these are tools for survival and nothing more. The only sign of all these and the "achievements" listed by you is the usefulness in survival. There is little scope in this game for truly ambitious non-survival goals. For example, for several weeks I was building a fully automated plant for the extraction, sorting and processing of ores in minecraft with some complex industrial mods. I didn't care about survival and it was interesting. In this game, there are no such possibilities even close. All you can do is a maximum of 30 hours of gameplay. The rest of the time you will repeat the past.

And about the fact that I have to recreate the game after death, okay, but what about in the group? I do not play this game alone. And why do you put some people's goals above others? Why is there an opportunity for some, but not for others? After all, I'm not the only one who would like to see the "1 life" mode at least in some form, there are a lot of people like me.

I get that you can't do a perm death when playing with a group unless everyone agrees that if anyone dies then everyone restarts so you can all stay together. But what about delete all on death? Do you play with that setting?

I have suggested ways to solve this problem. Removing things on death will bring a lot of negativity to the game, because items are usually shared. I think this will lead to the fact that some members of the group will stop taking good items and become just useless and will not enjoy it. I don’t play with it, although I thought to try it many times. In general, it was not about the fact that I suffer from a lack of hardcore mode, but about the fact that someone claimed that this is a game about survival

 

[bachgaman]

This game has survival elements just as it has elements from several other genres. The problem is not the game but the expectations that a hardcore survival fan has when playing this game thinking that this game is going to be a dedicated survival sim. It is the same problem that comes from the expectations of a hardcore RPG fan who comes and wonders why anyone would call this game an RPG. It is the same problem that comes from the expectations of a hardcore farming sim fan who comes and wonders how anyone could call the farming in this game legitimate farming. It is the same problem that comes from the expectations of a hardcore classic zombie fan who comes and wonders how anyone could call this game a zombie game when to them there are no actual zombies portrayed.

As Meganoth stated, this game is very much a survival challenge for many players despite it being a hybrid game and not a true dedicated survival sim. There are also settings you can choose to make the death penalty more biting as well as electing to start over once you die.

When I don't play voluntary dead is dead, I play with the option delete all on death and find that a pretty harrowing penalty. It is almost like starting over when you lose all your favorite items.  I often ask people who complain about weak death penalties if they ever have that enabled and very very few ever do...lol. Do you, @bachgaman?

I would like an additional toggle for persistent status effects upon respawn. I absolutely detest that death heals all debuffs. I find that unforgivable in a game that even dabbles with survival as one of its proclaimed genres thrown in the mix. If I had that option I would probably never just start a new game but keep playing to see if I can overcome or if I sink into a vortex of an inescapable death loop. But I know that wouldn't be good for everyone which is why I would love it as just an option.

I already answered above about "delete everything", but I think that this is still a bad punishment, because the game floods the player with loot, and the level is not lost. As a result, the more diligent players will be annoyed by the non-diligent ones and nothing will change.

And in l4d2 someone can "resurrect you". L4D2 is like "superhot" you can die fast but bettwen safehouse you will spend maybe 10-15 minutes. in 7dtd you will spend a lon long time on this same map so- if you lose 10 minutes no problem but if you lose 40 hours it will sucks.

It is true that similar mechanics could exist in this game in the form of daily backups or "resurrecting" by allies. This way, survival will remain the # 1 challenge, but you won't lose full progress. You will have a chance to deal with it. Unfortunately nobody needs it. You have to invent conditions for yourself as if you are playing tin soldiers, not a computer game 

Well survival part is complet honestly- point of survial is survive how long as you can. or until you get bored.

In my opinion survival will be early stage- get food guns base etc. 

And when you boxes  will be full of ammo food, walls stong and sentries at door you are going to kick bandits asses as "late game"

Why are you all writing about some bandits? Wake up, the A20 has been in development for almost a year and a half and there will be no bandits in it. We are talking about today, not about what will happen in 5-10 years.

I think some people when they were kids they asked parents if they can get spank on bare skin because with it will no hurt enough XD.

But seriously : i game can be realistic and can he hardcore.

Realistic - proper uniforms of soldier, correct magasines numbers, good graphic , realistic gore system.

Hardcore - everything is hard as posibble.

And i'm furiouse when people  use realistic as diffrent name of hardcore XD

Unfortunately, the game is now neither realism nor hardcore. And all this many settings can not help in any way

I think @bachgaman thinks this way

Comeon dude have you seen the graphics in this game? Have you seen how the transport is moving here? Have you seen how the plants grow? And what about workbenches that automatically create bullets? Do you still think I need realism? I need a challenge. At the moment I see that all aspects of the game are focused on survival, but there is no survival itself. Thus, everything in the game is devalued.

 

[Roland]

@bachgaman You’re that .02% elite gamer that the devs are not going to develop for. The level of challenge you say you want, 99.98% of the population will never play even if it was in the default version so the devs won’t spend any time on it. 
 

I’m not saying modding is the answer to everything but it most definitely is the answer for what you want. As an example, they will most likely never add an option to remove traders. You’ll always have to mod them out if you want them gone. 
 

I asked Joel personally if they could add an option to remove the hud or at least make F7 work so that you could interact with things and he said that huddles play is an extreme hardcore way to play and should be left to mods. 

 

[bachgaman]

@bachgaman You’re that .02% elite gamer that the devs are not going to develop for. The level of challenge you say you want, 99.98% of the population will never play even if it was in the default version so the devs won’t spend any time on it. 
 

I’m not saying modding is the answer to everything but it most definitely is the answer for what you want. As an example, they will most likely never add an option to remove traders. You’ll always have to mod them out if you want them gone. 
 

I asked Joel personally if they could add an option to remove the hud or at least make F7 work so that you could interact with things and he said that huddles play is an extreme hardcore way to play and should be left to mods. 

I would not like to delete traders. I wish they weren't OP. They spoil the game because they are extremely imbalanced. And you can't deny that 600 bullets on the first day is overkill. In a solo game.

Even minecraft has a 1 life mode and people play it. As well as in Path of Exile where people invest not only hundreds of hours, but hundreds of dollars in their characters and die from an accidental non-obvious blow like a hidden land mineand and other games. There is no need to exaggerate when speaking about 0.2%. You will not be able to refute the fact that in this game there is nothing but ways to survive that is not needed.

 

[Roland]

I would not like to delete traders. I wish they weren't OP. They spoil the game because they are extremely imbalanced. And you can't deny that 600 bullets on the first day is overkill. In a solo game.

Even minecraft has a 1 life mode and people play it. As well as in Path of Exile where people invest not only hundreds of hours, but hundreds of dollars in their characters and die from an accidental non-obvious blow like a hidden land mineand and other games. There is no need to exaggerate when speaking about 0.2%. You will not be able to refute the fact that in this game there is nothing but ways to survive that is not needed.

I don't need to refute anything. The game is wildly popular the way that it is. It is one of the most popular and successful of all of the open world survival type games. So perhaps they aren't doing survival the way you would like it but they are doing it the way a whole lot of people are liking it. I very much enjoy the amount of survival the game gives. I can honestly say that I have never gotten 600 bullets on the first day so I don't even know what you are talking about but I suspect that it is because you are speed running quests on 120 minute days. You are spoiling your own game because you can't help but play it extreme min/max and I know you say that you must because of the level of difficulty you are playing demands it.

But here's a thought. If you played 60 minute days and visited the trader only once per day,  that might result in that greater challenge that you are desiring. I know you don't want to hear about self-limiting concepts but for Pete's sake, man, you are your own worst enemy. The solution is right in front of you and all you have to do is modify your own behavior but you won't on the principle that you shouldn't have to do so. That is ridiculous. Make rules for yourself that will lead you to enjoy the challenge and stick with them. The game is never going to be developed in a way that will force you to only visit the trader once a day or only be able to spend so much or only be able to take so many jobs. The reason is that TFP wants to allow people to choose how they want to play in a way that they enjoy. You are taking that freedom and choosing to play in a way that makes you not enjoy the game and openly admit that you aren't enjoying it and then berate and look down on anyone who has the temerity to suggest that you make choices to limit yourself.

SMH...I don't know why but I keep forgetting that you are a min/maxer whenever you return to complain and each time I am confused at first why you are having such issues and then each time it comes back to me that you are a min/maxer who loathes the game that results from min/maxing but can't bring himself to stop min/maxing stating that at the difficulty level he is playing he MUST min/max but then also complains that the game is still too easy and wants SOME way to make it more difficult but won't ever stop min/maxing.  Good luck, man. Be disgusted that self-limiting and mods are going to be your only solutions if you must but eventually you will have to see the truth that the game is not going to be made to the specifications you are desiring. They are too fringe.

 

[Laz Man]

OP I know you don't think what you proposed will ever make it into the vanilla game, but you just never know.

I don't think anyone ever expected RWG to reach the level of believability and immersion that is in A20 but here we are. 

On the flip side what you ask for may never happen but we might get damn close on some of them.  Tune into the dev stream next week as Robert will be revealing lots of details regarding RWG and the new way POIs are spawned in.

 

[bachgaman]

I don't need to refute anything. The game is wildly popular the way that it is. It is one of the most popular and successful of all of the open world survival type games. So perhaps they aren't doing survival the way you would like it but they are doing it the way a whole lot of people are liking it. I very much enjoy the amount of survival the game gives.

Popular is not equal to good. And not equal forever. And not equal to perfect.

I can honestly say that I have never gotten 600 bullets on the first day so I don't even know what you are talking about but I suspect that it is because you are speed running quests on 120 minute days. You are spoiling your own game because you can't help but play it extreme min/max and I know you say that you must because of the level of difficulty you are playing demands it.

Suspect as much as you like, it is very easy to complete 4 tier1 quests on the first day, so it is quite possible to have even 800 rounds if 9mm drops out 4 times.

On default settings, without speedrun, in the typical RWG world. Some missions had to walk almost 1000 meters as i remember.

But here's a thought. If you played 60 minute days and visited the trader only once per day,  that might result in that greater challenge that you are desiring. I know you don't want to hear about self-limiting concepts but for Pete's sake, man, you are your own worst enemy. The solution is right in front of you and all you have to do is modify your own behavior but you won't on the principle that you shouldn't have to do so. That is ridiculous. Make rules for yourself that will lead you to enjoy the challenge and stick with them. The game is never going to be developed in a way that will force you to only visit the trader once a day or only be able to spend so much or only be able to take so many jobs. The reason is that TFP wants to allow people to choose how they want to play in a way that they enjoy. You are taking that freedom and choosing to play in a way that makes you not enjoy the game and openly admit that you aren't enjoying it and then berate and look down on anyone who has the temerity to suggest that you make choices to limit yourself.

Great, in one paragraph you mention that the game is positioned as something that allows people to choose how they want to play the way they like. And in it you write that the game will never have those opportunities that I would like to see in it, because it is created for the majority. Therefore, I have to put the spokes in the wheels myself. I have to deliberately play badly to make it interesting and challenging. This is a very strange position. And why then does the game have settings of 25% loot, 25% experience, nightmare insane? Does 99.98% play at these settings? If you are making the game 99.98%, then why can it remove all items after death?

SMH...I don't know why but I keep forgetting that you are a min/maxer whenever you return to complain and each time I am confused at first why you are having such issues and then each time it comes back to me that you are a min/maxer who loathes the game that results from min/maxing but can't bring himself to stop min/maxing stating that at the difficulty level he is playing he MUST min/max but then also complains that the game is still too easy and wants SOME way to make it more difficult but won't ever stop min/maxing.  Good luck, man. Be disgusted that self-limiting and mods are going to be your only solutions if you must but eventually you will have to see the truth that the game is not going to be made to the specifications you are desiring. They are too fringe.

You contemptuously call me a min / maxer, although I just want the game to force me to make decisions that allow me to survive. You call it a survival game yourself. I don't see anything marginal in the mode with 1 life, in the mode with 1 life and daily backups, in the mode with 1 life and party resurrection, in the settings of the merchant that allow you to scale his rewards or limit the repetition of the same quests. It would be just as interesting to those 99.98% you are talking about. But I didn’t say that this should be rigidly fixed for everyone. If you like to grind the same quest, getting 200 ammo for two killed zombies and spent 10 minutes of real time, then then please, but I would like the game to push me to explore the world.

We are different and we want different things from the game. You say that the developers follow the path of development so that each player has his own pleasure, but at the same time you never accept what I write. You fundamentally disagree with anything, because you think that you are a representative of 99.98% and everything should be in accordance with your ideas. This is not true. If for you this is incredible difficulty that kills the interest in the game, then for me it is more interesting gameplay in the first place.

The same relaxed players you write about would be glad if the merchant sent them to the farthest parts of the navezgan, and not forced them to visit a house on a mountain or a hospital 50 times. If I really were a minmaxer, then I would be against this. And that is convenient. You build a base between the merchant and the house on the mountain and minmax by completing this house 6 times per game day. I think it would be more profitable than trudging to the farthest corner of the map, because only there were unfulfilled quests.

 

[Matt115]

I already answered above about "delete everything", but I think that this is still a bad punishment, because the game floods the player with loot, and the level is not lost. As a result, the more diligent players will be annoyed by the non-diligent ones and nothing will change.

It is true that similar mechanics could exist in this game in the form of daily backups or "resurrecting" by allies. This way, survival will remain the # 1 challenge, but you won't lose full progress. You will have a chance to deal with it. Unfortunately nobody needs it. You have to invent conditions for yourself as if you are playing tin soldiers, not a computer game 

Why are you all writing about some bandits? Wake up, the A20 has been in development for almost a year and a half and there will be no bandits in it. We are talking about today, not about what will happen in 5-10 years.

Unfortunately, the game is now neither realism nor hardcore. And all this many settings can not help in any way

Comeon dude have you seen the graphics in this game? Have you seen how the transport is moving here? Have you seen how the plants grow? And what about workbenches that automatically create bullets? Do you still think I need realism? I need a challenge. At the moment I see that all aspects of the game are focused on survival, but there is no survival itself. Thus, everything in the game is devalued.

1. Yep level is not lost and that's good if you want to lose everything you can just delet save. Lose level is so hard to implemeted so nobody do this - if i good remember one guy working on titan quest talk about this in interview.

2. And there came few problems.  Create item to self revive like cod warzone or not. Add revive item or not. what if someplay in single player etc. In cod if you fall in single player on zombie you could revieve you self if you have quick revive of first aid in cod cw. But here it will be too much complicated.

3. Well maybe you should wake up? they planned this from long time and this game is in early access so - this game is not ended yet but still it is neccesary what will be in final version.

4. Is not realism but realistic - i will give  cod as example - realism modes on multi- no hud short time to kill no minimap etc. realistic- proper uniforms and  realistic looking guns  etc.

5. bla bla bla challenge- this graphics is realistic in this same way as plague tale , old cod waw or l4d2-  this is style not quality- bordelands have a good graphic but it's looks in comic style.  Realistic mean  style not a game system -  plague tale and dragon age are fantasy game- but plague tale is trying to keep realistic style- dirty bare feet, rotting corpses , decaying food etc and dragon age keep mix of high and brutal fantasy style.  Rest of thing  you wrote is mechanic not style. And some thing are made simpler to keep balance or just to be working

@bachgaman You’re that .02% elite gamer that the devs are not going to develop for. The level of challenge you say you want, 99.98% of the population will never play even if it was in the default version so the devs won’t spend any time on it. 
 

I’m not saying modding is the answer to everything but it most definitely is the answer for what you want. As an example, they will most likely never add an option to remove traders. You’ll always have to mod them out if you want them gone. 
 

I asked Joel personally if they could add an option to remove the hud or at least make F7 work so that you could interact with things and he said that huddles play is an extreme hardcore way to play and should be left to mods. 

Yep i agree with you. Anyone from 7dtd say they want to create hardcore game.  Well small joke here - if they wanted to create ultrahardcore zombie game zombie teens woudn't be problem because maybe only 0,00001% people on steam would buy this game anyway

 

[bachgaman]

1. Yep level is not lost and that's good if you want to lose everything you can just delet save. Lose level is so hard to implemeted so nobody do this - if i good remember one guy working on titan quest talk about this in interview.

2. And there came few problems.  Create item to self revive like cod warzone or not. Add revive item or not. what if someplay in single player etc. In cod if you fall in single player on zombie you could revieve you self if you have quick revive of first aid in cod cw. But here it will be too much complicated.

3. Well maybe you should wake up? they planned this from long time and this game is in early access so - this game is not ended yet but still it is neccesary what will be in final version.

4. Is not realism but realistic - i will give  cod as example - realism modes on multi- no hud short time to kill no minimap etc. realistic- proper uniforms and  realistic looking guns  etc.

5. bla bla bla challenge- this graphics is realistic in this same way as plague tale , old cod waw or l4d2-  this is style not quality- bordelands have a good graphic but it's looks in comic style.  Realistic mean  style not a game system -  plague tale and dragon age are fantasy game- but plague tale is trying to keep realistic style- dirty bare feet, rotting corpses , decaying food etc and dragon age keep mix of high and brutal fantasy style.  Rest of thing  you wrote is mechanic not style. And some thing are made simpler to keep balance or just to be working

1. Perhaps you are right and this is incredibly difficult to implement (which I doubt)

2. I agree, reviving is a complex mechanic and they need to think it over. So what? TFPs can't think through? Backups are much more straightforward mechanic.

3. If you are offended by the word "wake up", then I'm sorry. But in this context, it is absurd to argue for what will be created many years later. There is no need to indulge in the illusion that we will receive the A21 in January, and the gold version in February. Judging by the speed of updating the game, the bandits will appear not earlier than in a couple of years.

4/5. Let's just say I'm fine with the ugly graphics of 7 Days to Die, but I wouldn't want to see laser miniguns in it, made of 1 stone and 1 stick.

Yep i agree with you. Anyone from 7dtd say they want to create hardcore game.  Well small joke here - if they wanted to create ultrahardcore zombie game zombie teens woudn't be problem because maybe only 0,00001% people on steam would buy this game anyway

It seems you have labeled me as someone who only wants difficulties, but I would like to have the same variety of gameplay (offers about a merchant) and not as much difficulty as the emergence of new meaningful goals (for example survive in a survival game)

 

[Roland]

Popular is not equal to good. And not equal forever. And not equal to perfect.

Of course it isn't. But popular is a good barometer for determining whether people are having fun with the game. "Good" is subjective. What you think is good or bad I may feel otherwise. Devs are doing what they believe to be good and while you disagree that it is, many many people are having fun and playing and purchasing what TFP has determined to be good so that motivates them to continue in the path that they are on.

Suspect as much as you like, it is very easy to complete 4 tier1 quests on the first day, so it is quite possible to have even 800 rounds if 9mm drops out 4 times.

lol...I don't DOUBT you. I just limit myself from playing in that manner. I wasn't calling on you to stop making false claims. I was suggesting that you stop the behavior that nets you 400 ammo on Day one since you know that it kills the game. You have done so by modding out the traders which I applaud. What I take issue with is you complaining that you must mod them out to get that result. When I said I have never gotten that many rounds on Day one I wasn't saying it is impossible to do so. I was saying that it isn't impossible to avoid doing so even if you don't remove the traders. It's easy...you just do one quest a day on purpose.

Great, in one paragraph you mention that the game is positioned as something that allows people to choose how they want to play the way they like. And in it you write that the game will never have those opportunities that I would like to see in it, because it is created for the majority. Therefore, I have to put the spokes in the wheels myself.

I guess that you misunderstood my point that when I said the game is positioned as something that allows people to choose how they want to play the way they like I meant that they have those choices by being willing to put the spokes in the wheels themselves. You will never have those opportunities to get what you want out of the game only if you refuse to put the spokes in the wheel yourself. It's not just you that has to "fix" the game. Anyone and everyone who wants a slightly to largely different experience than what is offered by the current default and the current options must choose to make those adjustments themselves either by self-limiting or by modding. The difference is that most of us are happy and grateful for the ability to do so whereas you are sour and angry about the ability to do so. It could be that some of what you want may eventually become part of the official options menu page. I just doubt that they will create an option to remove traders or limit quests to once a day. But maybe that could happen. If it does then congrats. If they ever give us an option for invisible HUD then congrats to me. If they ever give us an option to make status debuffs persistent through death and respawn congrats to us both. But they may never do those things and then, yes, we will have to put the spokes in our own wheels ourselves if we want those things-- and that is a powerful and positive thing. It is not a sign of bad developers or bad design that the game can be so easily and completely modified to individual tastes.

You contemptuously call me a min / maxer, although I just want the game to force me to make decisions that allow me to survive.

I call you a min/maxer because you admit that you cannot resist spamming 4-5 quests a day and playing the game in a manner that optimizes efficiency despite knowing that it is going to kill your fun. I call you a min/maxer because where non min/maxers look at self limitation as a legitimate way of introducing challenge into the game you look at it solely as choosing to play poorly and stupidly.  I understand wanting the game to force decisions. A permadeath option that deletes your game automatically is much more powerful and definitely changes the feel over electively deleting your own game. I get that. But just wanting options that will force the limitations that will increase the survival aspect of the game is not what makes someone a min/maxer. I would welcome more options that add limitations much like we already have like 25% loot as you pointed out. I'm not against such things. The difference is that I recognize that we will never have enough official options to satisfy everyone-- even some of the options I would like may never appear and because I am willing to mod or self limit I get the game that I want and am pleased with it. You could have the same thing if you could accept self limitation and modding as legitimate solutions without feeling wronged by the developers that they didn't make the game the way they should have.

 

[Roland]

We are different and we want different things from the game. You say that the developers follow the path of development so that each player has his own pleasure, but at the same time you never accept what I write. You fundamentally disagree with anything, because you think that you are a representative of 99.98% and everything should be in accordance with your ideas. This is not true. If for you this is incredible difficulty that kills the interest in the game, then for me it is more interesting gameplay in the first place.

We are different but I don't disagree with everything you write and I'm sorry I give that impression. I tend to just focus on what I do disagree with and leave the things I do agree with alone. I agree that more questable locations would be a good thing so you are not being sent to the same house so often. I agree that getting to a point where pretty much every POI is on the map somewhere but just once without repitition would be great and if they continue on in pumping out POIs that might be a reality someday. As I stated, I am not against the options you want. I don't think the devs will spend time on some of them but I could be wrong and I certainly wouldn't try to talk them out of adding them. 

I also don't think I represent the 99.98%. I just observe and believe I can see what the 99.98% do like and what they do respond to and what they believe to be good. More importantly, I know what the developers believe the 99.98% want and like and wrong or right that is what is going to determine the path at the end of the day. You have the right to speak against that for sure. I don't want you to stop voicing what you want. But neither am I going to stop correcting what I believe to be misconceptions and misunderstandings-- the biggest being (between us) that the need to mod or self limit equals a weakness in the design of the game. You may not be convinced but readers can listen to both our perspectives and decide where they stand.

 

[Matt115]

1. Perhaps you are right and this is incredibly difficult to implement (which I doubt)

2. I agree, reviving is a complex mechanic and they need to think it over. So what? TFPs can't think through? Backups are much more straightforward mechanic.

3. If you are offended by the word "wake up", then I'm sorry. But in this context, it is absurd to argue for what will be created many years later. There is no need to indulge in the illusion that we will receive the A21 in January, and the gold version in February. Judging by the speed of updating the game, the bandits will appear not earlier than in a couple of years.

4/5. Let's just say I'm fine with the ugly graphics of 7 Days to Die, but I wouldn't want to see laser miniguns in it, made of 1 stone and 1 stick.

It seems you have labeled me as someone who only wants difficulties, but I would like to have the same variety of gameplay (offers about a merchant) and not as much difficulty as the emergence of new meaningful goals (for example survive in a survival game)

1.Well unfortunatly i'm right - because now game keep your 1 profile, but with lvl 20 you would need 20 profiles. Because you can put  points in diffrent way. and will need "space" so this is problem and level is connected with gamestage.

2. They can but it is too late. If wrote this in 2013/2014 they maybe would add this. But after 7-8 years it is just too late.

3 Okay   We don't get gold soon but this not a point - i will give you example -  few years ago governament in my city made a road to nowhere, It was looking stupid but after 5-8 years they build shop center on this empty field.  

So 7dtd have now "  early stage" improvment and maybe after 2-3 years we will get  " late stage"

4. Nothing to worry about - ofc balancing is neccesary still but they works on turret for  example or junk guns.

Honestly - 7dtd is like call of duty zombies. 

In nach der toten , verruck shi no numa , Five, kino der toten you have only to survive as long as possible. But in Der Riese, shangra-la moon you can play just to survive as long as you can or do easter egg quest (story in cod is easter egg - it sound stupid but tradition) . 7dtd in now on shi no numa level but someday 7dtd will change into origins. 

Btw- difficulty can be connected with mechanic like advanced reloading of guns etc. 

Some mechanics can be just be for fun- fishing in cod outbreake, some of them to be difficult - melee system in nioh 

We are different but I don't disagree with everything you write and I'm sorry I give that impression. I tend to just focus on what I do disagree with and leave the things I do agree with alone. I agree that more questable locations would be a good thing so you are not being sent to the same house so often. I agree that getting to a point where pretty much every POI is on the map somewhere but just once without repitition would be great and if they continue on in pumping out POIs that might be a reality someday. As I stated, I am not against the options you want. I don't think the devs will spend time on some of them but I could be wrong and I certainly wouldn't try to talk them out of adding them. 

I also don't think I represent the 99.98%. I just observe and believe I can see what the 99.98% do like and what they do respond to and what they believe to be good. More importantly, I know what the developers believe the 99.98% want and like and wrong or right that is what is going to determine the path at the end of the day. You have the right to speak against that for sure. I don't want you to stop voicing what you want. But neither am I going to stop correcting what I believe to be misconceptions and misunderstandings-- the biggest being (between us) that the need to mod or self limit equals a weakness in the design of the game. You may not be convinced but readers can listen to both our perspectives and decide where they stand.

Honestly i agree with you except of POI - well ofc  if every POI on map were unique it would be cool but.. small number of zombie variant create clone wars syndrome - so add more variants of zombie in my opinion is one of the most important things

 

[Roland]

1.Well unfortunatly i'm right - because now game keep your 1 profile, but with lvl 20 you would need 20 profiles. Because you can put  points in diffrent way. and will need "space" so this is problem and level is connected with gamestage.

I don't think you are. They already implemented virtually the same thing as level loss for death except it was temporary so people (min/maxer oriented people again) sat around waiting for the curse to end because they couldn't stomach the thought of harvesting or taking any action at less than optimal efficiency for their character. It was a 60 minute death curse that got reduced to 30 minutes and then finally removed.  But they could easily implement a permanent level loss for dying. It's already all there if they want it and they would just make it permanent rather than on a timer. I'm not sure why you think this would result in 20 different profiles You would simply lose the level and any skills that no longer could function would become red until your level was recovered.

I don't think they will return to this though-- not because of technical limitations but because of memory of the backlash the last time they went down this road.