PC How to fix unfair randomness in the game once and for all

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Hollowprime

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Implement the pseudo random distribution:

https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Pseudo_Random_Distribution

It was a core mechanic for games like warcraft and diablo when some chances to find an item or activate a stun buff were too random and were either broken or sometimes never occurred. A lot of games use this mechanic to fix balance issues and provide a certainty in uncertain seeds .

For 7 days to die it can be implemented in at least two ways:

In loot: Say a beaker has a 1 every 10 chances to drop from a medical cabin. With simple random distribution the item sometimes appear multiple times and sometimes doesn't appear at all. By applying random distribution the chances to find the item slowly increase until it is either found or the item reaches 100% . Afterwards it resets back to 10%.

On damage buffs : Say there is a 20% chance for stun to take effect when you strike with heavy or clubbed power attacks . Sometimes it activates a lot of times consecutively but sometimes it doesn't activate for long periods of time making it unreliable. By applying pseudo random distribution you make absolutely certain thato on average 1 every 5 attacks is going to stun.

Pseudo random distribution mostly fixes chances for items and buffs BUT it has the capability to come in handy in random world generation as well : From chances to create zombies ,to how many number of ores can exist at a certain level ,how many animals is a city allowed to have and even the chances for hordes to appear every time you create noise.

I would personally be very happy if it was at least applied to items and weapon buffs.

The only downside is it needs to keep a track of previous randomness (it has memory) so that might be a little tough for the developers ,but in my opinion the pros outweigh the cons.

 
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Wow, I would really hate that system. Well, for world creation it doesnt sound bad. But for item finding, or stun landing? nope

 
Always hated pseudo-rng in games, way too artificial. Fixing balance issues by worsening and making gameplay duller. Same as level scaling.

 
Implement the pseudo random distribution:
https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Pseudo_Random_Distribution

It was a core mechanic for games like warcraft and diablo when some chances to find an item or activate a stun buff were too random and were either broken or sometimes never occurred. A lot of games use this mechanic to fix balance issues and provide a certainty in uncertain seeds .

For 7 days to die it can be implemented in at least two ways:

In loot: Say a beaker has a 1 every 10 chances to drop from a medical cabin. With simple random distribution the item sometimes appear multiple times and sometimes doesn't appear at all. By applying random distribution the chances to find the item slowly increase until it is either found or the item reaches 100% . Afterwards it resets back to 10%.

On damage buffs : Say there is a 20% chance for stun to take effect when you strike with heavy or clubbed power attacks . Sometimes it activates a lot of times consecutively but sometimes it doesn't activate for long periods of time making it unreliable. By applying pseudo random distribution you make absolutely certain thato on average 1 every 5 attacks is going to stun.

Pseudo random distribution mostly fixes chances for items and buffs BUT it has the capability to come in handy in random world generation as well : From chances to create zombies ,to how many number of ores can exist at a certain level ,how many animals is a city allowed to have and even the chances for hordes to appear every time you create noise.

I would personally be very happy if it was at least applied to items and weapon buffs.

The only downside is it needs to keep a track of previous randomness (it has memory) so that might be a little tough for the developers ,but in my opinion the pros outweigh the cons.
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I agree. I think this would add a smoothness that's really missing from systems governed by "true RNG".

 
Its not a competitive MOBA, pseudo RNG isn't needed here at all.

It would be nice for RWG and POIs so we have most/all of them in, but for combat and loot its as pointless as it could get in game like 7d.

And even if I wanted, I just couldn't explain how stupidly broken op it would be in regards to loot specifically, you might just as well have a "mail" being sent to your base with an item you don't have every day or so.

 
i solved that issue by a questline that give you these stuff rng sometimes deny you.

So yes, i like the idea to set borders for RNG.

 
I think that's a good idea. Not necessarily for everything but for things that are important for the gameplay such as the beaker.

I was lucky enough to find the beakers I needed early on but other players report that they are still looking for a beaker after several weeks.

 
In loot: Say a beaker has a 1 every 10 chances to drop from a medical cabin. With simple random distribution the item sometimes appear multiple times and sometimes doesn't appear at all.
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Beakers are not critical progression items and loot is not the only source for them.

Also, you can use chem stations that you find in the world.

Really a bad example.

On damage buffs : Say there is a 20% chance for stun to take effect when you strike with heavy or clubbed power attacks . Sometimes it activates a lot of times consecutively but sometimes it doesn't activate for long periods of time making it unreliable....

By applying pseudo random distribution you make absolutely certain that on average 1 every 5 attacks is going to stun.
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1 in 5 is also unreliable so nothing changes.

Also you can not chain-stun enemies nor can they chain-stun you. (You're welcome!)

The actual randomness is what makes play-throughs unique.

So what if you don't find a beaker in 3 weeks? Adapt. Play the game.

I get that some players have their preferred progression path all plotted out and want to follow it as efficiently as possible but I don't agree that this needs to be guaranteed. ;)

 
Do you know what i do if i cant get essential items after a reasonable time ?

I play something else !

And i dont speak about superstuff for day1

But if you have after 20 Pas n Gas boxes still no vehicle the balance is off for me.

If i have no 3+ Auger with level 100 the balance is off

If i have no beaker after 3 Pop n pills the balance is off (read only about that, had never issues with beakers)

...

I dont say that i have this very often, but such games exists.

(Btw in Diablo 3 i had no valuable drop the first 2000 Hours, so yes, RNG really can hate me)

 
Good lord, "unfair randomness" is a critical feature of this game, not a problem to be solved. It actually already has been "solved" (ie, broken) in a17 by the static perk tree unlocks rather than a16's system of looting random schematics.

 
Good lord, "unfair randomness" is a critical feature of this game, not a problem to be solved. It actually already has been "solved" (ie, broken) in a17 by the static perk tree unlocks rather than a16's system of looting random schematics.
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Agree. I already feel much less need to go out and explore than in a16. Now you want to guarantee the few random items that remain.

 
Do you know what i do if i cant get essential items after a reasonable time ?
I play something else !

And i dont speak about superstuff for day1

But if you have after 20 Pas n Gas boxes still no vehicle the balance is off for me.

If i have no 3+ Auger with level 100 the balance is off

If i have no beaker after 3 Pop n pills the balance is off (read only about that, had never issues with beakers)

...

I dont say that i have this very often, but such games exists.

(Btw in Diablo 3 i had no valuable drop the first 2000 Hours, so yes, RNG really can hate me)
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If I already know that I'll find certain items at an, approximately, specific point, I play something else too :p

There's a reason a nameless garage indie, Path of Exile destroyed freakin Diablo 3 popularity-wise. Removing/watering down rng in an inherently repetitive game was the epitome of idiocy for Blizzard.

Gazz, now that MM has played Subnautica, here's a random idea - revamp the int tree, remove most schematics from perks, add them as schematic *parts* to specific POIs, with a small amount of rng.

 
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Agree. I already feel much less need to go out and explore than in a16. Now you want to guarantee the few random items that remain.
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random is really nice if the essentials are not included

Means if you can have a Q6 AK with a Radiation IMod it is completly fine that you can hunt for Legendary Ak´s that give a 15% bonus on top. It means not that at a point you need the weapon to survive you simply dont have it because rng decided so.

People naming this a feature simply NEVER had really unluck

 
random is really nice if the essentials are not included
Means if you can have a Q6 AK with a Radiation IMod it is completly fine that you can hunt for Legendary Ak´s that give a 15% bonus on top. It means not that at a point you need the weapon to survive you simply dont have it because rng decided so.

People naming this a feature simply NEVER had really unluck
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I miss needing to go explore to get a crossbow recipe. I miss beeing happy as hell when finding a book store. Arriving at a new city and before doing anything navigating around checking if the important buildings are there so you can get specific drops.

And I like the addition of mods. Just not instead of.

 
And i never said that the lack of RNG drops is in any way better.

All i said was "make only not essential items pure rng dependent"

What speaks against 2 guarantied Beaker after you killed 1500 Zombies (thats on average week 6 with 60 minute days)

If you have them allready, fine for you, do 2 more beakers hurt you then, i guess not. Is it in any way overpowered to have 2 beakers on week 6 ? i dont think so.

YOu get a bicicle at end of week one ....

is that imba ? I have my bycicles normally on day 2. So no, if RNG is no completly A Hole, you allready should have one at that time.

 
Only if you use these items with every game on the same way.

If i dont want to build my Auger is in a crate for weeks, no problem.

But what if i want to build in a game and even 200 spawned in Traders have no auger for me (Perk on 5)

exact this, i stoped playing and deleted the savegame

But hey, i can mod, i dont care. (Thats why i made this particular modlet)

If i could not mod, i would have deinstalled the game at this day

 
random is really nice if the essentials are not included
Means if you can have a Q6 AK with a Radiation IMod it is completly fine that you can hunt for Legendary Ak´s that give a 15% bonus on top. It means not that at a point you need the weapon to survive you simply dont have it because rng decided so.

People naming this a feature simply NEVER had really unluck
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The error in your statement is that you think a Q6 AK with rad mod is essential. It isn't. A Q4 AK means you either need 10% more ammo or you learn another weapon (which is advisable anyway to use all the other ammo you find) where you found a Q6 gun.

Neither is a rad mod essential. While I still think it is one of the best mods for later game I made some tests with radiated and HP display on and found out that their self-healing is slow enough to not matter most of the time. Probably it was nerfed since A16. Mostly their mass of HPs are to be feared, a big mama radiated has 700 hp!

 
And how many concrete blocks did you craft in this time ?

How many Blocks you need to dig ?

And if you think 20 000 Blocks are much reconsider your meaning with a value of 300 000 upwards

 
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