PC How this game is supposed to be played

[Xtrakicking]

There used to be five different ways you could survive the horde night, now there is one or two. Why? Why remove the flexibility?

Because those other 2-3 ways of beating the horde night weren't intended, they were either exploits or cheap cop outs; such as digging a hole in the ground and hiding in it, going up on a roof top and then destroying the ladders, building a fence with certain blocks that confused the AI so that it was impossible for zombies to get you... etc.

Some people loved doing that, but truly speaking that's not what the intention of having a 7 day horde was.

 

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

In my first playthrough now i noticed the High rise of gamestage too. Zeds being walking dangerous EXP-Banks are ramping up way too fast for my taste.

Pssst... here's a secret...

You don't have to kill all the zombies. No, seriously.

Lots of people are talking about how you are "forced" to kill zombies to go up levels quickly. But what does killing zombies and going up levels actually get you? Yes, it unlocks some perks, but it also pushes up the Gamestage and makes the zombies harder.

If you take it easier and kill as few zombies as you can get away with, then you have more time to scavenge, trade, and loot and more time to build and repair before the Gamestage starts going through the roof. For any particular Gamestage you'll be more prepared and better equipped to deal with it.

Rushing levels to get the higher perks is counterproductive because you're making things harder on yourself by ramping up the Gamestage too quickly rather than making things easier on yourself.

 

[TargetPractice]

I've been using the advice in the thread linked below. I've started a couple of games to see how I can optimally get to level 20 for the forge with my play style. Currently, I'm hitting 20 on Nomad (loot respawn every 5 days, 64 Z's max, 1 hr days) by day 5. This includes a cobblestone/flagstone base built out from a POI (usually a partially ruined multi-level stone corner building on the edge of a city) with 2 layers of wood spikes around it to soften up the 7-day horde. It's a crap base by day 5, but it will allow me to survive the horde (if I get one, stupid experimental version bugs...).

So as I get used to the new game mechanics and adapt to the changes, I'm getting closer to my typical A16.4 situation of full base setup within a game week. 20+ levels in 7 game days is nothing to sneeze at. By that point, Stamina is manageable, food is going OK, and I'm generating forged iron to repair the iron tools I bought at the trader/looted from cars/WorkingStiffs.

I hope the advice and tricks in this thread help you.

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?94986-A17e-small-tips-tricks-amp-hints-Spoilers

 

[Kage848]

Atm I'm having a blast killing zeds but trust me, this is going to get old fast. We dont get enough xp from non zombie slaying. Needs balance.

 

[Xtrakicking]

Pssst... here's a secret...
You don't have to kill all the zombies. No, seriously.

Lots of people are talking about how you are "forced" to kill zombies to go up levels quickly. But what does killing zombies and going up levels actually get you? Yes, it unlocks some perks, but it also pushes up the Gamestage and makes the zombies harder.

If you take it easier and kill as few zombies as you can get away with, then you have more time to scavenge, trade, and loot and more time to build and repair before the Gamestage starts going through the roof. For any particular Gamestage you'll be more prepared and better equipped to deal with it.

Rushing levels to get the higher perks is counterproductive because you're making things harder on yourself by ramping up the Gamestage too quickly rather than making things easier on yourself.

I feel like if the devs just made it so killing zombies isn't the only way to get XP, everyone would be happy.

 

[RestInPieces]

Pssst... here's a secret...
You don't have to kill all the zombies. No, seriously.

The game encourages you to progress, don't expect people not to make an effort to progress. Like the death penalty or anything else, it's a matter of design, not player choice. It's not counterproductive if it's not the only thing you do (like exploiting the points you are getting by crafting/building/exploring POIs), but still zombies being xp pinatas compared to everything else makes them a grind objective. Xp sources should be ironed out in the future.

Anyway as for building strategies, try to find ways to direct zombies through long paths with traps while shooting them, instead of blocking them.

 

[Roland]

I don't believe I said anything about this game being impossible. I know how to survive the horde night, it's not that complicated. I can outsmart any AI TFP can develop as they have a fundamental flaw in their thinking. That's most definitely not the point.
TFP seems hard set on eliminating a play style I enjoy in favor of a play style I don't. I *can* run around all day killing Zs, I am very good at it, but I don't *want* to. I *can* buy all my tools off a trader, but I don't *want* to, I want to make them. There used to be five different ways you could survive the horde night, now there is one or two. Why? Why remove the flexibility?

Well I didn’t quote you specifically in my reply. I was saying that in general people are proclaiming that building a base early game is over and there is no more variety of playstyle. You can only play it one or two. I’m saying that 4 days into the new game that seems true but eventually people will find new ways.

You said there used to be five and now there are one or two. Please name the five and the one or two. What are the three lost?

 

[Roland]

Is that what you got out reading the OP? Might want to go and read it another time because that is not what OP is talking about at all. Lack strategy never even comes into this.

Did you see me quote the OP and answer point by point? Go back and read it again. My statement was a general statement that just as in the past when the game changed some people complain 2-4 days into it saying that freedom has been constrained. People who are stating that there is only one way to play the game now like it’s a fact have given up looking for strategies. I get that some people don’t like to puzzle things out so if that’s you, just be on the lookout for threads that will be incoming from those who do like to puzzle things out and who then share.

 

[Roland]

I dont see any way to come up with new strats. And when people do come up with new strats they are labeled exploits and the zombies fixed to defeat them lol. I am already getting people telling me about strats but they will be considered exploits. Mark my words. The zombies are simply too smart at this point.

Possibly some are exploits but I’m sure some are legit. If someone discovers that due to a bug zombies can’t hit cinderblocks and so constructs their base out of cinderblocks that is what I would call an exploit. But if someone figures out that kill corridors work better than walls (as stated by RestInPieces) and then threads start popping up sharing designs of kill corridors then that’s not an exploit at all. That is a completely new base defense design.

 

[ktr]

Here's what I did early game and it seems (so far) to be going okay!

1.) Materials - looks for alternative sources when you have stone tools.

**Wood - scrap chairs and cut up couches (which will also give you leather and cloth)

**Stone - pick them up and look for the pallets of gray bricks.

**Get all the feathers you come across

2.) Looting - early stage looting is both a blessing a curse

** Look for the apartment building that has four floors. I didn't run across any hard zeds (playing nomad) and I managed to get A LOT of food and other resources from there. Took about 2-3 days to clear all but the top floor.

** There are new barns that have a lamp out front and 2 hay bales in the doorway. They always have a working stiffs crate in the loft, but zombie vultures can spawn so sneak around and kill with care these have been my go to for tools.

** Big, new POIs - I avoid them. Sure there's good rewards in there, but there's also a truckton of zombies and often dogs. I hate dogs.

3.) The trader - The new quests seem to have decent rewards and but the trader didn't have tools for me.

4.) BUILDING - Yeah, you won't be doing much of it from the start. DO look for a building with brick or concrete that you can make your own if you want to horde night at your base. I tend to like brick better because cobblestone to repair is much easier to make. I mostly made escape routes and made a ton of wood spikes AND barbed wire fencing. The combo worked really well for me on the first horde night with only 4 of my base blocks destroyed by zeds. I tend to look at the first week of building as 'using what's around me' instead of 'planning for base of my dreams'. I've set up in some half destroyed brick buildings that are separate by the street and am setting up pathways on the top floors as alternative routes to escape/etc. Having a path with four frames that I can pull out to halt pursuers has been fun and hugely useful.

 

[Roland]

Yea that seems to be Roland's default response to most threads like yours, "Learn to Play" He to me is coming off as kinda insulting people who are talking about playstyle and saying you just can't figure out this sevret that he knows cause he works with coder who told him the secret base building guide.

I’m sorry you feel that way. I do feel that A17 is a completely different experience than A16 and requires a learning curve even from veterans. Nothing was handed to me. I had to go through that learning curve too so I definitely am not calling people stupid for needing to relearn or adapt.

I do think it is definitely too soon to proclaim that there is only one or two viable strategies. Just because you can’t think of them immediately doesn’t mean that additional ways of playing aren’t there. It doesn’t mean you’re stupid at all. I wasn’t saying that.

 

[Kage848]

Possibly some are exploits but I’m sure some are legit. If someone discovers that due to a bug zombies can’t hit cinderblocks and so constructs their base out of cinderblocks that is what I would call an exploit. But if someone figures out that kill corridors work better than walls (as stated by RestInPieces) and then threads start popping up sharing designs of kill corridors then that’s not an exploit at all. That is a completely new base defense design.

I am very excited for choke point defenses. Tried them last season but ai was not good enough. But the games going to turn into choke point simulator lol. It's going to be the only game in town. I guess there's only so much you can do in a game like this.

 

[Exxodous]

it's a thing that happens when you completely re-jigger a system. Sometimes you break it.
There's a lot that's good in A17, but nobody can enjoy it because progression is hobbled (having to wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait long after a bellows is made to make a forge) and the entire point of defending against a feral horde swarm is also hobbled by continued efforts to remove defensive options.

Absolute statements rarely lend credence to your statement. You may very well not enjoy the progression, but I do enjoy it so your statement that nobody can enjoy it becomes false. Invalidating your entire argument which may actually have merit.

I think base building is going to be much more difficult and would be more enjoyable to me if it was balanced better. That's a statement of my viewpoint that is true to my perspective.

Nobody will ever be able to build a base that survives a horde and needs changed. This is a statement that will undoubtedly be proven false and invalidates one's concerns.

Other than that I understand and agree with some of your points in this post. I don't see any major changes that "have" to be made for me to have fun as I'm enjoying it quite a bit but maybe a few QOL changes would be nice. Bandage stack size comes to mind for me cause I keep getting wrecked in POIs lol.

 

[ubai]

If you're a base builder, the best way to enjoy the game is to MOD it. Much like Fallout or Morrowind, 7DtD is a flawed gem that needs mods to shine, especially for turtles and people who play SP.

The first thing I fix as soon as a new version drops is zombie block damage, which is WAY too high. Zombies have magic powers in 7DtD, fifty of them can occupy the exact same space and hit your door at the exact same time. SPOOKY! As far as I can tell, TFP has never taken this into account, and set zombie damage as if only one zed would be hitting your door at a time.

I also think TFP assumes you are playing MP and that one guy will be killing zeds while one poor slob gets the exciting job of whacking the door every few seconds. Those of us who play SP don't have that luxury. Without mods, you spend the bulk of your time playing Block Repairman Simulator 2018, which is not a fun game. With mods, you still have to actively defend your base, but you don't spend the whole day fixing blocks after a horde night.

The other thing to get rid of is level gating. Level gating in anything that even remotely comes within sniffing distance of an RPG is a bad idea, and then double gating it behind perks and stats make it worse. Removing level gating makes progression much more organic and it still takes quite a while to get to a level where you can do steel or guns.

One of the best and greatest thing about 7DtD is how moddable it is, and now with modlets and the amazing 7DtD modding community it is even Greaterer! It's not cheating to mod out the things you don't like, it's just good sense.

 

[meganoth]

- Tune back zombie run speed at night slightly, or slow down the animation speed so we can hit the friggen coked up murder-rockets you call 'zombies'. I feel like there's some give here without changing the dangers of engaging at night, but it's a total PITA trying to hit a target that's obviously running to the Benny Hill Theme on 1.5x speed (yes, I did check the tempo on YT).

- Advance progression by 10 levels. A forge by lvl 10 paces things perfectly, as that's when I'm looking to ditch the stone axe for appropriate tools, especially if a trader isn't available. The 10-20 'stone age' gap overstays its welcome. The pacing is off, and that's why there's so much gripe about it on the forums.

- Death penalty needs to be cut back to 15-30 minutes to make it a deterrent, but not debilitating. Players are already being triple-taxed on death penalties with corpse runs and partial health spawning. Alternately, let it gradually restore point-by-point over time. Daylight is everything in this game, and it's a PITA to not be able to invest hard-earned skill points because of a horde night or closet zombie.

Some good points, I only comment on above:

- The idea to tune back run speed of zombies is a really good one, but only for lower difficultiy settings. Remember people have very different reaction times (age is a big factor here) and difficulty level should adapt to that.

- "trader not available". Sorry, but that is either a bug in your game or simply not possible. I have 3 in walking distance in my current game. And you can always choose to set up your base near one. My short experience tells me you have access to a forge very fast and that without the perk.

- I wouldn't cut back death penalty but make the backpack you loose not despawn. Makes you able to choose when to do a corpse run.

 

[Reth]

Well I didn’t quote you specifically in my reply. I was saying that in general people are proclaiming that building a base early game is over and there is no more variety of playstyle. You can only play it one or two. I’m saying that 4 days into the new game that seems true but eventually people will find new ways.
You said there used to be five and now there are one or two. Please name the five and the one or two. What are the three lost?

Sure. The following are early game strategies that are no longer viable:

1. Bike is unattainable early game - I don't really miss it, I only used it long ago back when I was still a noob, but it used to be a decent last resort escape strategy and it is no longer.

2. Concrete wall base with arrow slits surrounded by wood log spikes. You can't get concrete early due to *multiple* gates even if you find a mixer, wood log spikes are gone, arrows don't do enough damage, including headshots.

3. Underground bases. I never used them myself, but other people did and unlike other folks I have no inclination to judge them for it.

I now fully expect people to tell me that those were bad, bad strategies and should have been eliminated long time ago, which would bring my point yet again - there is apparently an *approved* way to play this game, I just haven't found it yet hence this whole thread.

And just to answer your specific question, the following are the strategies that are still viable:

1. What goes up must always come down and vice versa

2. Stand outside of your base and repeatedly die all night

 

[meganoth]

I now fully expect people to tell me that those were bad, bad strategies and should have been eliminated long time ago, which would bring my point yet again - there is apparently an *approved* way to play this game, I just haven't found it yet hence this whole thread.

Oh, there definitely are somewhat "unapproved" ways if a developer wants to make a balanced game. For example if you just could hover in the air indefinitely it would make all the other ways of surviving pointless.

So hovering in the air is gated behind the hurdle of using "creative mode". You can hover in the air or get a bike on day 1, you don't even need to mod the game.

Is creative mode approved or not? Depends on your definition, but it is there, in easy reach.

 

[Javiere750]

We started...

The game is completely different to the the previous Alfas, therefore have to do a "Fresh Start", or take it as a new game, already can't go running and killing zombies and ready, level 5 and already have forge. " No! that is now at level 20!

What days is loot everything possible, entering houses and loot them completely. But pay attention there are many hidden things, which led me to the point of entering the same House twice and have brought me beautiful surprises.

On the other hand, you depend much on sellers; If you have a peak of iron that is broken, and you want the forge to make "Forged Iron" forget, go to the seller and buy wrought iron and follow... "

You have many possible missions, there is the key to getting good things, such as weapons and armor modifiers...

The truth, I do not regret this game, it has been very good, (only that not I enjoy it visually by my pc's resources),

but that's the key, loot everything possible, kill zombies and traders!

 

[Roland]

Sure. The following are early game strategies that are no longer viable:
1. Bike is unattainable early game - I don't really miss it, I only used it long ago back when I was still a noob, but it used to be a decent last resort escape strategy and it is no longer.

I never had a bike in what I would call the early game but maybe we are going off of different definitions of early game. Personally, I think driving around on horde night to escape the zombies is perfectly valid as long as there is some risk of failure involved so that you have to be vigilant and your heart is beating at a good pace while you’re doing it.

2. Concrete wall base with arrow slits surrounded by wood log spikes. You can't get concrete early due to *multiple* gates even if you find a mixer, wood log spikes are gone, arrows don't do enough damage, including headshots.

I don’t see materials as playstyle. You build a base with defenses and you can still do that—just with blocks other than concrete in the early game. Defenses are going to be different than log spikes. Personally I think funnels and kill corridors are more fun and engaging than log spikes but YMMV.

I also think bases that are breachable are more fun and thrilling to play. Yes, the risk of death and loss of everything is more real but it makes victories that much more sweet. Concrete was always attainable too early which made bases OP for the gamestage. Now base defense is balanced on the edge of a knife and it could go badly whereas before by day 14 you were untouchable.

I understand that not all are going to enjoy being vulnerable for so long in the game.

3. Underground bases. I never used them myself, but other people did and unlike other folks I have no inclination to judge them for it.

Still viable. Guppycur already posted a design that works. There are others. The great thing, to me, is the terror of hearing them coming for you and seeing the dirt falling and then them pouring out of a hole in the ceiling and then finding out if your underground design worked.

Simply digging down and over doesn’t work.

I now fully expect people to tell me that those were bad, bad strategies and should have been eliminated long time ago, which would bring my point yet again - there is apparently an *approved* way to play this game, I just haven't found it yet hence this whole thread.

Nah...You worry too much about how people will respond. People respond to me in all kinds of ways ranging from furious to grateful. I don’t worry about it. Not even when someone puts a little preemptive defense against possible future responses as you did.

You may not have found alternative ways to play and to build but they are there and someone is bound to find them and share them with you if you don’t end up discovering them yourself.

And just to answer your specific question, the following are the strategies that are still viable:
1. What goes up must always come down and vice versa

2. Stand outside of your base and repeatedly die all night

LOL

 

[SurvivalUK]

Atm I'm having a blast killing zeds but trust me, this is going to get old fast. We dont get enough xp from non zombie slaying. Needs balance.

It already got old!

Of old watching videos of you, G4K, GameEdged etc. craft huge interesting bases and all the cool things that came with that was awesome. Lots of creativity, randomness, striving for progression, luck of the draw on loot drops (screaming like a girl at an early game mini bike book find) in an openworld sandbox tower defense with Z's fun game.

Now watching the stamina management simulator with one horde per POI is not entertaining. Watching G4K with the cam you can often see it is in his expressions, "wtf, seriously game!" (and as i type that i hear his voice in my head lol).

I feel for 7DTD content creators who built their channels around the game because while many viewers will remain for me the draw of watching A17e in its current form has gone.

It's going action fps game rather than what it built it's loyal fan base on. Very few people put 1000's of hours into a game of whack a Z, Minecraft with Z's on the other hand i'll invest that time.