PC How this game is supposed to be played

R

Reth

New member
It seems to me that a lot of my issues come from one simple fact - I'm not playing this game the way it was designed to played.

I am a base builder by nature, and that seems to become more and more difficult with each patch. So, please, tell me - is building a base a viable play style? Should I try to invent and build an impenetrable tower like I did in countless other tower defense games, or am I just doing it wrong? I am fine either way, but I would really like to know.

I am a tradeskiller by nature (mostly in games though ;) . With A17 I find myself beating countless zombies with my iron club just so I can make some simple iron tools and cook a few simple items. I don't *need* them, I just want to make them, for, you know, fun. I used to be able to, but now it's all locked behind levels. I keep reading it was all done in the name of making the game more survival-like. /shrug

I played dozens and dozens of other games (no exaggeration here) where I could specialize in one area or the other. The way it usually works is that you get some basics from every single field, and then you excel at a single one of them. Can I do that in 7D2D now? I can't seem to be able to do much without spending skill points in the areas I have very little interest in.

I am truly at a loss here. Clearly, I have some wrong expectations. I can kill zombies all day with my iron club, but that gets real old real fast. I killed so many, I'm sure if zombies were smart enough, they'd avoid me by now. That's not what I want from this game. I want freedom to build. I'm not getting that vibe from A17.

It looks like this game is being changed to accommodate a very specific play style. I would really like to know what that play style is so I can adjust mine accordingly.

 
Apparently "how it is supposed to be played" varies, depending on whim. There are lots of know-it-all's here now saying "This is how it was always supposed to be!" Now ask them why there were releases where zombies gave no experience at all. You'll get crickets.

 
1. Do the tutorial, get perk points. I wish you would just start with five and have the option of skipping the tutorial, but, nobody's listening.

2. Go to the trader, do a mission for him. This will usually score you some kind of antibiotic and a bunch of Dukes. Infection is a slow, painful way to die and waste your time. If you don't get a trader bookmark, keep an eye out for tree stumps. you can usually score some Honey.

3. Kill, loot, repeat. Make some scrap armor, it helps a lot. Don't worry about 'bases', but find some rooftop (higher the better) in a town you can camp at night, stash stuff, and lay low. Don't fight at night.

4. On day 5, start worrying about horde night. Find either a big POI or a small defensible one. The big POI is if you want to avoid the horde. Get to the roof (clear it), and let the horde trash it. If you're feeling aggressive and ready to die, fortify a small defensible POI made of something that is NOT WOOD. Reinforce with spikes and as much cobblestone as you can cobble together. Plan on dying, be happy if you don't.

The variety is mostly in your character and their activities. There's a lot of opportunity to specialize, such as an engineer or an armored up melee hulk, but if you're solo, you're going to need to figure out where to cut corners to get the diversity you need on a skill budget.

The problem is that Intelligence is the king stat. No matter how you want to "play", you do not 'advance' without Intelligence skills. Traders don't sell vehicles, forges, or enough advanced traps to keep you alive on horde night. You need at least 7 in Int for most mandatory functions.

 
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You need at least 7 in Int for most mandatory functions.
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Then again, those are level gated, so by the time he gets 7, he WILL die in many 7 day night hordes, so ultimately there is no way to build a proper defense early in game.

 
I really thought there would be threads discussing new strategies and sharing ideas on how to survive horde night. I didn’t expect defeat threads where people would give up after less than a week with the game saying “It’s impossible!”

 
I really thought there would be threads discussing new strategies and sharing ideas on how to survive horde night. I didn’t expect defeat threads where people would give up after less than a week with the game saying “It’s impossible!”
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it's a thing that happens when you completely re-jigger a system. Sometimes you break it.

There's a lot that's good in A17, but nobody can enjoy it because progression is hobbled (having to wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait long after a bellows is made to make a forge) and the entire point of defending against a feral horde swarm is also hobbled by continued efforts to remove defensive options.

The new vehicles are great, the new perk trees are great, the quality system has been ironed out, and the trader system is on point. The electrical toys from a16 are still great. There are problems in this experimental phase that need to be ironed out for a smooth experience.

- Gamestage needs to be eased up a bit to offset the loss of early defensive options. Increase scaling on the difficulty settings for people looking for a challenge. Players don't have the DPS they used to with the gated systems and limited trap options.

- Ease off on the presence of 'Demolition' (workers, cops) zombies in the first weeks. Test player design, not dps, due to the new gating system. Encourage players to confront the horde, which is a challenge considering the lethality involved with fighting at night.

- Tune back zombie run speed at night slightly, or slow down the animation speed so we can hit the friggen coked up murder-rockets you call 'zombies'. I feel like there's some give here without changing the dangers of engaging at night, but it's a total PITA trying to hit a target that's obviously running to the Benny Hill Theme on 1.5x speed (yes, I did check the tempo on YT).

- Advance progression by 10 levels. A forge by lvl 10 paces things perfectly, as that's when I'm looking to ditch the stone axe for appropriate tools, especially if a trader isn't available. The 10-20 'stone age' gap overstays its welcome. The pacing is off, and that's why there's so much gripe about it on the forums.

- Change food to give Max Health rather than Current Health. Constantly eating bandages is making my character constipated.

- Death penalty needs to be cut back to 15-30 minutes to make it a deterrent, but not debilitating. Players are already being triple-taxed on death penalties with corpse runs and partial health spawning. Alternately, let it gradually restore point-by-point over time. Daylight is everything in this game, and it's a PITA to not be able to invest hard-earned skill points because of a horde night or closet zombie.

- Cloth armor is too terrible to exist. Just pointing that out.

 
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The system isn’t broken. I promise you that there are new base building strategies that will work. I have faith in at least a few figuring it out for the rest to copy... ;)

As far as other changes you mentioned it’s too soon. TFP is aware of the complaints and suggestions to alter the game to make it better in the minds of those not finding it fun but they aren’t going to kneejerk change things after just 3 1/2 days when there’s at least 3 1/2 weeks still of experimental ahead of us. They are listening and taking notes.

 
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The system isn’t broken. I promise you that there are new base building strategies that will work. I have faith in at least a few figuring it out for the rest to copy... ;)
As far as other changes you mentioned it’s too soon. TFP is aware of the complaints and suggestions to alter the game to make it better in the minds of those not finding it fun but they aren’t going to kneejerk change things after just 3 1/2 days when there’s at least 3 1/2 weeks still of experimental ahead of us. They are listening and taking notes.
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we always find ways to survive.

TFP always finds ways to patch them out.

The cycle continues.

 
Yeah, the building playstyle took a big hit. I'm right there with you. Usually the other 2 people I play with want to run off and loot and explore while I build the base, sink points into crafting, and farm. Then I keep them supplied with repaired and upgraded tools and weapons.

That's pretty much not happening anymore, not until you get into "mid game." So if that's pretty much what you like about the game, it's not viable at the start anymore.

Honestly? I think this game is tuned perfectly for 2-3 players right now. Going around in a group has been a blast for me. We do quests together, I'm going Int, the boys are going Perception and Strength, we're all getting some Fortitude so we can move. The stamina thing SUCKS BAD. I hate it.

If I was soloing, I would be very, very unhappy right now. The gamestage ramps up too quickly, setting the BM horde to the lowest setting still nets us a ton of zombies. We just did day 14 and died at least twice (though for me, mine were to a persistent bug that screws me over since I'm running the server.)

BUT. We have a workable horde night fighting platform. It worked really well for us, I'm actually impressed. We brainstormed it using the 4 year old's legos, LOL

I'm also still building a "base." Well, fortifying a POI, but I've had to change my style completely. We took over one of those square POIs with the balcony, and completely filled the whole bottom level with cobblestone. Like, out to the edge of the porch. Put a ring of spikes around it, put 2 rows of barbed wire around that. Now random hordes get caught soon enough for us to get out and hurt them. It's rudimentary, at some point we may put a drop pit or do something so that we can actually fight from the base, but right now I just want something to "live" in and store our stuff in. I also flattened and reinforced the roof so I can farm up there.

So yeah. It's a big adjustment, and I feel like the builder playstyle has been totally degraded in favor of forced xp grinding, questing, and roaming around looting. The "adjustment" really feels more like "we only want you to play a certain way and we will punish other playstyles." But it is what it is, and the devs seem pretty determined to force us in this direction so... learn to enjoy the new playstyle or uninstall until a new update and see if you like that better.

 
The focus on POI's and the "encourangement" (re: FORCED) to kill zombies really do bring attention to the amazing work the building designers put in. it's a pity they overdid the spawns. You do NOT find 10 people inside a locked a 2 bedroom suburban flat unless it was orgy and wings night when things took a turn for the worst.

Also, hobos are not socialites. You do not need 4 zombies in a (also locked) rundown crapshack.

 
I'm going to quote myself from last June about A16. My opinion hasn't changed.

There's really only three stages of the game:Pre-forge, which should last all of 2-3 days. stone tools, crappy quality shorts, and lots of fishing weights. This is the cower-and-hide phase, because you and your tools are too weak to compete. Staying here longer than absolutely necessary only makes your life harder due to restricted access to better equipment, sans what you may salvage in whatever condition it comes in.

Forge: You're gonna be here a while, subject to the RNG gods unless you're learning on Navasgane. The game doesn't actually start until this point, since you can now adequately resource for construction efforts and deal quantifiable damage to the oncoming hordes.

Workbench: This is the road to end-game that doesn't start until sometime into your 3rd or 4th week. Getting to this 'tier' requires access to steel and luck in finding a wild wrench, or an even rarer wild workbench to make one. This opens up a lot of 'industrialization' options for mass processing items and creation of more advanced items. You'll get access to steel tools, better armor, the chem station, minibike manufacturing, etc.

End Game: You get there when you get there, because so much of this game is now level gated. Once you cross level 100, you're pretty much in the end game. You have your workbenches, chem stations, and a personal fortress. You can mass produce resources for large construction processes, and can industrialize zombie-murder with the new electricity system. You are focusing more on large projects like mines, long range exploration, and scavenging advanced parts you can't make yourself like engines and batteries. What you can't make yourself or scavenge, you have the resources to trade.
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Obviously, stage 1 now lasts 5x longer than in A16. The 'plan, scramble, evolve' phase has been replaced with "kill zombies, forget about progression, GLHF *trollface*'.

 
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The system isn’t broken. I promise you that there are new base building strategies that will work. I have faith in at least a few figuring it out for the rest to copy... ;)
As far as other changes you mentioned it’s too soon. TFP is aware of the complaints and suggestions to alter the game to make it better in the minds of those not finding it fun but they aren’t going to kneejerk change things after just 3 1/2 days when there’s at least 3 1/2 weeks still of experimental ahead of us. They are listening and taking notes.
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That's really good to know.

The survival challenge is definitely way better now and I've had to change defensive strategies. But the level gating is starting to feel very restrictive. I'm not interested in rushing forge or iron tools, but not allowing to further progress things like agility before lvl 20 is a strange one.

 
In my first playthrough now i noticed the High rise of gamestage too. Zeds being walking dangerous EXP-Banks are ramping up way too fast for my taste. I´m on day 2 now and faced a roaming horde with 4 Ferals running towards me with full "Running in the 90ies" Meme song flashing into my head as i ran for my life and only turned around for shooting dem hunting rifles (had 4 of them on toolbelt for faster dps) Yet Still Died.

had a Blast though, the adrenaline kicked in immediately :)

 
I really thought there would be threads discussing new strategies and sharing ideas on how to survive horde night. I didn’t expect defeat threads where people would give up after less than a week with the game saying “It’s impossible!”
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I don't believe I said anything about this game being impossible. I know how to survive the horde night, it's not that complicated. I can outsmart any AI TFP can develop as they have a fundamental flaw in their thinking. That's most definitely not the point.

TFP seems hard set on eliminating a play style I enjoy in favor of a play style I don't. I *can* run around all day killing Zs, I am very good at it, but I don't *want* to. I *can* buy all my tools off a trader, but I don't *want* to, I want to make them. There used to be five different ways you could survive the horde night, now there is one or two. Why? Why remove the flexibility?

 
I really thought there would be threads discussing new strategies and sharing ideas on how to survive horde night. I didn’t expect defeat threads where people would give up after less than a week with the game saying “It’s impossible!”
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Is that what you got out reading the OP? Might want to go and read it another time because that is not what OP is talking about at all. Lack strategy never even comes into this.

 
I really thought there would be threads discussing new strategies and sharing ideas on how to survive horde night. I didn’t expect defeat threads where people would give up after less than a week with the game saying “It’s impossible!”
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I dont see any way to come up with new strats. And when people do come up with new strats they are labeled exploits and the zombies fixed to defeat them lol. I am already getting people telling me about strats but they will be considered exploits. Mark my words. The zombies are simply too smart at this point.

 
I don't believe I said anything about this game being impossible. I know how to survive the horde night, it's not that complicated. I can outsmart any AI TFP can develop as they have a fundamental flaw in their thinking. That's most definitely not the point.
TFP seems hard set on eliminating a play style I enjoy in favor of a play style I don't. I *can* run around all day killing Zs, I am very good at it, but I don't *want* to. I *can* buy all my tools off a trader, but I don't *want* to, I want to make them. There used to be five different ways you could survive the horde night, now there is one or two. Why? Why remove the flexibility?
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Yea that seems to be Roland's default response to most threads like yours, "Learn to Play" He to me is coming off as kinda insulting people who are talking about playstyle and saying you just can't figure out this sevret that he knows cause he works with coder who told him the secret base building guide.

 
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