PC How do you like A17 experimental?

[giKoN]

Roland, maybe it would have helped with limiting the count of responses to this thread to one per player such that players only list their pro's and con's. Then - through not having to argue - people are more likely to state their positive and negative points and thus - even those loving but seeing bad things might bring up 1-2 points which 90% agree upon - allowing you to identify these very important issues and rewarding almost evryone in your playerbase.

In any way - I'd love to hear from the very positive side what they do think is overshadowed in a good sense too.

 

[Krougal]

The problem with water and water storage is that it is bulky. In game to make it more of a hassle, lower the stack size of bottles. Water should be somewhat of an issue for someone that has built a base without considering a source. Add a vehicle mod - water tank - that should ease it up if needed. Also add a water tank placeable that fills when it rains.

I would be all for that. Being able to repair the plumbing in a POI and get running water, maybe even water filters (yes, I know it's an armor mod - by the way goes in all armor pieces not just helmet, minor bug) so you don't have to boil it would be a nice touch too.

90 mins, everything else default I believe, except max difficulty. Max difficulty was only set halfway through I admit (once the being OP feeling began to surface). No way I could handle max in the first week or two as I loathe bullet sponge enemies as a design.
- - - Updated - - -

I get that, but I'm used to it being day 100 before I get to the power level I got to on day 30.

It isn't like there isn't stuff to do still either. As a test I used giveselfxp to get to 100, and then allocated perks, and didn't feel I had everything I wanted. Even at lvl 300 with everything maxed and fully modded gear, I didn't feel invulnerable. Actually I find it not fun at that point because everything is a bullet sponge, and it isn't so much they add difficulty but they add tedium.

On a side note, SP I have been playing on 1 level lower, and while certain things become easier - 1 shot stealthed headshot bow kills are always fun - it is still easy to get yourself jammed up and die (dog pack + wolf + a bunch of zeds + forgetting you have a loaded shotgun on your toolbar = much embarassment) granted I cocked that one up myself (although I did kill most of them). I've got a lot of hours in, I would consider myself a "decent" player (If not for the fact that there are people that melee on insane with max horde settings just to get warmed up, I'd say I was a pretty good player).

Roland, maybe it would have helped with limiting the count of responses to this thread to one per player such that players only list their pro's and con's. Then - through not having to argue - people are more likely to state their positive and negative points and thus - even those loving but seeing bad things might bring up 1-2 points which 90% agree upon - allowing you to identify these very important issues and rewarding almost evryone in your playerbase.
In any way - I'd love to hear from the very positive side what they do think is overshadowed in a good sense too.

Nah, that's not how we do things around here, we must endlessly argue and debate and get all off-topic and grind our own axes. I think Roland does these more for his own curiosity and to spur discussion than it being him doing it in his official capacity anyway.

 

[Reth]

It's a tough question to answer with a single choice.

Are there universally hated things in A17? Of course.

Are there universally loved things in A17? Of course.

Do I like new farming more than I dislike new stamina shortage? Not really sure. Do I like new vehicles more than I dislike new mining? Difficult to say.

How about: Will you play this game without modding it in *any* way?

 

[scm1893]

Note: I'm a Sandbox player. I don't play "as intended".

A17 is a big plus for me. It was supposed to be a big content drop and it was. Some of it isn't working and we lost some key items. [working jail doors and rotation on the drawbridge]

The RWG is slightly improved; more reasonable topography and new textures. Roads still look like a major geological cataclysm took place. Still have floating POIs. My current map [7DaysToDie] is a few small to medium towns connected by a single highway. Half the map is wilderness. Now we've added the Moses effect.

I like the XP/Skill system. Coupled with the weapon add-ons, it makes me a badass zombie killin' machine. I like the feel of the environment. It's much more desolate and lonely. It feels like, "The Last Man on Earth", where the infected mostly shelter during the day. I like the increase in zombies occupying POIs. It suits my style of play.

I don't know how the purists do it, though. It looks impossible.

 

[Roland]

The developers are well aware of the hot topics. They refuse to knee-jerk respond by reverting features and rebalancing based on the initial reactions of people wrapping their heads around all the changes. Continued listing of hated features is simply for the player's catharsis rather than a need for getting the developers' attention about it. They know. They were on build 213 as of last night and there have been lots of changes and fixes and additions since build 208.

But here is what is important to understand.

They already had a long list of prioritized tasks to complete BEFORE the experimental released and everyone piled on additional player desired changes and fixes. So be patient. When you get the next update there will be fixes and additions nobody asked for and some of the hot topics still won't be changed at all and getting upset that the one or two things you wanted fixed didn't get done will not be productive. But they know what is upsetting players and they will work through as a team how they plan to respond to the feedback.

 

[Voqar]

Been playing since early days before Steam and I think this is the best build yet - without question.

I love the skill system revamp - SO much better than the last iteration.

I'm fine with the inventory system, stamina, death penalty, and all that. Simplified quality system is better. New gun/mod system is better.

I've long complained that the game lacks long term play goalls/support and the past few builds sort of dealt with this with skill progression but I didn't like the previous grindy skill system. I think the A17 system is vastly superior. I'm fine with level gating - it gives you goals and paces the game better (vs vets going high tech immediately).

I think getting way more xp for zombie kills vs crafting/gather makes 100% sense because killing zombies is a real challenge. Grinding crafting/gathering is mindless grind - the wrong kind of grind. I do NOT miss sitting around crafting dozens/hundreds of items ever night to get xp ala previous builds. I don't play 7DTD as a pretty alternative to minecraft. If I wanted to focus on crafting/gathering I'd just play (heavily) modded minecraft since nothing touches it for that.

We (me and 1-2 others) play co-op PvE so the PvE challenges are nice, and the shared xp bonus is sexy and further encourages co-op. We're way more inclined to stick together, clear together, etc, both for xp and the danger level.

The new graphics are awesome. Haven't seen that much yet but what I've seen is very nice. Ex, Diersville on nav map - holy crap - so atmospheric and awesome looking.

Zombie spawning also feels generally better. Used to be that you arrive at a POI and a small horde would materialize out of thin air. Zombie presence feels more natural/organic now. I also feel like using guns only draws nearby zombies instead of causing more to magically spawn in, so using guns isn't completely annoying earlier on.

The few things so far I don't like is that I don't think zombies should be smart, and moreso, I don't think zombies should be hiding, sitting up in ceilings, shelves, etc - in places there is no way to get to even. It feels to contrived and like they are placed as in an RPG dungeon and less like open world survival. The dungeon style POIs are a tad bit overdone in this regard, IMO. While fun, the loot payout vs effort for these also seems generally horrible.

Coupled with that, is that at a place like Diersville, EVERY house is a mini dungeon. I don't think in a real zompoc that every house would get fortified or layed out like a dungeon. A mix of stuff that can be looted in a reasonable amount of time vs dungeon houses would be ideal, IMO. It's easier to break in and loot a business that will probably have way better loot than to clear one dungeon house.

Minor beef though because the tension and interest level of this stuff is so much higher than speed clearing buildings was in the past. But damn man, you clear a house dungeon with 50 sleepers, finally get to the tasty loot crates, and they contain paper or some junk wrench - that's a kick in the nads.

Overall, great job!

I feel there are a lot of negative comments by people who want the game to never change, or don't want their pet part of the game to ever change. That's not how development works. This game is still called alpha no matter how amazing it is. Development in general often tends to be "iterative" which means, things change over time, sometimes a lot. The devs are doing what they think is best for the game and all players, it's not a personal attack on how you play. Enjoy the ride!

 

[Rockspider]

Pros

Looks great

Ai much better ( I would like to see some variety to their individual behaviour)

Cons

Stamina system is so bad early game

Looting is no fun anymore

Weapon and tool levels and mods are terrible to me I just prefer a16 working towards that 600 was so nice.

Level and perks are not great.

level gating is bad

Random gen is terrible now

Meat stew pointless now

Clothing non existent

Weapons so easy to loot

Building early game is a chore

Fps can be really bad with lag spikes

Single player game has taken a massive hit

Crouching omg why?

Removed wood log spikes

Game is so dumbed down now

Magazines and magic glasses boots etc also grr

 

[aXeKhalen]

After playing the newest build of A17 B208 I've put in a whole weekend so far and some nights. I've played A16 so I know how the game was and how it changed. Now it's more, kill zombies for experience, so you can progress. That's fine, but in A16 you usually hated the random hordes but now I'm actually engaging them for the experience. I'm missing some info at what level certain skills are unlocked (or I might be blind, so please let me know).

What I actually love is the zombie horde (the 7 day horde) help me with base building. They find the weakest spot of my base to get to me the fastest. So that's what I'm working on and then the next 7 day horde is a complete new situation. I like this as it makes the 7 day horde attacks more fun. Not like some stupid 7 day horde that just goes through all my spikes instead of hitting the weak spots of my base. And yes I've also heard people say that this makes the horde predictable. Bit lame excuse as the horde has always been after our flesh, now they are just a bit smarter as they find your weak spots of your base. Deal with it

The item quality is kinda meh. Now I have to repair a lot with lower tools. And once you find a good item you don't need another really. Might need some tweaking still (random quality, permanent broken, maximum number of repairs, etc.). It's a bit too easy on the tools in my opinion. Same with guns.

Zombies having no loot default, but can sometimes drop a loot bag is ok. It's not bad or really good. It does make the looting after killing many zombies not needed (or after a 7 day horde). I kinda see it as, now you get experience as a reward for the zombie, instead of random loot. So you actually have to scavenge certain stuff from certain places.

I like the new leveling and the skill changes. As a RPGer I like to make choices where I put my earned point in.

Still have to find a lot of stuff, like the new vehicles and the more advanced stuff. But so far I'm enjoying myself again with 7 days to die after putting it down for a full year.

So thanks for all the work and the new changes!

 

[Jamey]

Mixed feelings.

I like the direction of most changes, but things like the skill trees and weapon mods are so desperately in need of polish and/or expansion that I can’t judge them well.

The death penalty remains the worst change in A17 and needs to be replaced with a penalty that does not completely negate all character progression. It alone negates all of the good work done in A17 and will push me to mod the game or not play A17.

 

[GrifterMan]

So I put ambivalent because I do like it, but can't see myself pouring 100s-1000s of hours into anymore. Maybe balancing will fix it, but it A17 has removed a lot of things I like, and the good it brought doesn't outweigh the removal of things for me unfortunately. I hope the balancing will change my opinion. However, it is still a fun game.

This is my sentiment as well (other than "a few play-throughs").

I would like to see a bit larger % of non-dungeon POIs included, or the ability to blend my preferences in pre-gen. Not too many of them, but a few more than I am seeing now. I kinda miss the old run-down empty/mostly empty houses.

Mechanics are getting there with the tweaking, speed of chopping animation much better now. I am still not a huge fan of the generic weapons + mod slot game theory- at least thus far. It's OK, haven't found much early game and the grind is very real.

As mentioned by Kage, too much to do and not enough time, even with elevated length of daytime. Could use a tweak to tone down the "manic rush" to get it all done prior to Day 7 horde.

Stamina loss is... annoying. It may be more realistic, but I honestly feel handcuffed by the No Fun Police compared to earlier versions. Perhaps a happy medium can be found?

 

[ryandotdee]

I think I am in the mixed camp.

There are some good things about this build, I really like the new POI`s. You can tell that thought has gone into them, and towns / villages etc are beginning to look "real" and not just a random group of prefab structures. The graphics are nicer, which is a positive in relation to this game but sadly still look a bit dated.

Little things like the new food recipes are nice, but, I can still find a nice fresh meat stew in a cupboard that has probably been there for years. I can make a blueberry pie, stash it in a black sack and know that when I come back to it in 2 years time it will be as fresh as the day i baked it. The lack of food spoilage is a big bug bear for me.

Death penalty is tedious. The game lets you respawn, so I think it is pointless to add a penalty. Leave it as it was and add a legitimate iron man mode to the game.

Nerdy glasses? At the risk of sounding a bit too PC, wearing glasses does not make you a nerd. And wearing glasses does not make you smarter.

The other "Magic" items are a bit naff aswell, I think that the time taken to develop these could have been better spent.

Melee combat feels good, and quite balanced. Firearms are in a bad place. Firearm damage needs to be buffed and the rarity increased. I am at a point now where I scrap every single gun I find and solely use a sledgehammer.

Zombie AI in some instances is good, individuals and small groups behave quite nicely, but everything more than 3-4 quickly becomes a zombie conga line. Whilst this makes life easy for me and my sledgehammer, I am not playing this game for ease of zombie skull smashing, I want to be threatened. The only time I feel threatened currently is when I get smacked in the back by a ninja zombie or am being closed in on by a feral zombie that has survived (# of bullets in my inventory) + 1 bullets.

RWG, overall quality of the generated terrain is pretty nice, but roads still tend to have some glaring issues. vertical drops, and Moses like water parting. Also, they always seem to follow the same formula of Desert > Forrest > Snow. And whilst the towns are much more interesting than they have been before, they are fairly closely grouped around single highways, leaving a lot of wilderness with not much in it.

Vehicles seem good, I have not got the gyro yet as I have not grinded up to the appropriate level, but the downside I am seeing is that it takes a fair while to get to the right level for the vehicles, and by the time I got to the point where i could build the jeep, I had already found all the towns on the map. Utility of faster travel is good, but I have found that it has come too late.

I really hate the levelling system. I like the perks, but the means of unlocking perks is just silly.

These are my opinions, I do not expect sweeping changes to be made as a result of me stating them, but I wanted to leave a post here. I have been watching the forums for over a year waiting for the new release to come out, and now that it has I feel a bit sad. More and more this game is moving away from being a trailblazer to becoming something far more generic.

I think TFP have missed the sweet spot with this game, they need to stop reinventing core elements and introduce the missing ones. In my opinion this game has gone from being something that other games would have been compared to, to something which is like other games.

 

[Kam R.]

(...)I kinda miss the old run-down empty/mostly empty houses.(...)

Agree.

I understand that they wanted to redesign the Navezgane towns and the new POIs are fantastic work. But what did speak against leaving the replaced classic house POIs in for more variety and a somewhat easier tier of lootable places in random gen?

 

[badgerpns]

I voted for " In general I like it. It has bad aspects but overall it is improved."

In reality, my preferred vote wasn't available, which is "I generally love it, but there are certain things that need balanced"

What IMO most needs balance:

Sleepers - Far TOO MANY sleepers in POIs, far TOO FEW zombies in the open world. This extends to wandering hordes as well. I'd personally prefer smaller groups of Z's continually in an area instead of twice a day getting 18+ zombies in a conga parade line.

Game stage - I actually like the slower player progression, as I am not someone who 'power levels', but prefers to play at a relaxed pace. However the gamestage curves up much quicker on default settings than A16. Yet having a SLOWER player progression, but a FASTER game stage, seems to be antithetical.

 

[Mainsil]

I haven't gone beyond a couple of days so I can't speak to later game. However, it is an improvement so far with rough spots.

Pros:

Love the mini-dungeon POIs, they are absolutely fantastic.

Reasonable spawning in POIs

Melee combat is more lively

Most zombie corpses not carrying loot is better

Idea of a stealth system is good

Cons:

Lag spike every few steps when zombies are about

Mining at night is no longer worth the risk

Zombies seem to do too much damage to structures when they are in a group

Some zombies dig inappropriately (try to dig through balcony rather than go down stairs)

 

[Aldranon]

I like the fact that the forum looks like 90% of the users hate the game.
However, the polls mentions;

Haters; 25,38%

Neutral; 15,11%

Lovers; 58,84%

Still not the results TFP where hoping for ofcrouse.

But I think you should ask this question again 2 weeks after stable release. :strawberry:

The numbers are the forum: mostly TFP loyalists (a loyalist can criticize) with a few professional agitators.

The "Silent majority", I believe, are mostly casual players. If the number of online players don't exceed 32K (A16 peek ) when A17 hits the masses, then TFP probably should make the default game settings easier if they want to keep that group.

 

[Enderus]

By and large, the functionality and underlying framework for the game has been expanded and improved drastically. Xpath, the overhauled PassiveEffects and Buff related systems, the AI, combat, and vehicles just to name a few.

However I think some gameplay areas were poorly tackled and are something of a step backwards. In particular, I think far too many has been shifted directly into the perk system and only the perk system (recipe unlocking, headshot damage, stat/"wellness" management, etc).

This shift further compounded by how perk-gain is now almost entirely based on gaining character levels. Before, players could make relevant gains directly through what they were doing (IE, digging, looting, etc.) as well as by reading recipe books. Not only did this feel more natural, it also meshed well as to how it applied to a variety of different activities.

I think also, the strict manner in which the perks are unlocked within the perk system itself is too stringent and inflexible. One point, per level, for one point cost, with restrictions based on attributes, and even more harshly, being locked based on player level, is just a bit... extreme.

To spare everyone a wall of text, spoiler-hid some suggestions and thoughts on how things might be addressed below:

Spoiler

A better approach I think would be to adopt a similar level of flexibility as A15/A16, but with the polish and functionality we sort of have in A17. The new attributes for example are a great way of organizing different perk and skill lines, both conceptually and mechanically. And I think lowering the maxskill numbers was also a good idea, though I think they might be a little too low, while the maxattributes might be a little too high (10x for attributes and 20x for perks/skills might strike a better balance). I'd also suggest reintroducing the system for advancing skillines of various types. Maybe not for crafting quality, but at the very least for skills that affect things like mining and repairing. Recipe books could maybe redone as some skill-gaining methods, that have a cap based on the player's skill level in that area (or something like that, there's plenty of possibilities).

Oh, also, forgot. I think the new quality system could use a little touchup. Currently, item quality has almost minimal impact on some items, to the point of being almost inconsequential. It needn't be so. While I don't think guns should have different damage values based on the tier, they could at least at least have mild differences in performance (recoil, sway, reload speeds, etc). (Working on my own overhaul, I kind of understand how difficult it is to balance out where stats and bonuses are distributed, but it's perfectly possible to find a nice spread across different aspects.)

 

[JaxTeller718]

I loved it more in its first week than I do now. Its an overall improvement, but the more you play the more you realize aside from the POIs (which i adore) and the Ai its basically the same with LESS choices and randomness.

So far in 4 restarts I've built the same character because its kind of how you fall into it. If you're melee you go one way and never change, if you're ranged you go one way. Buy one oerk of Chef and you're solid. Open the bag space. Rinse repeat. Blah Blah.

 

[JaxTeller718]

I think TFP have missed the sweet spot with this game, they need to stop reinventing core elements and introduce the missing ones. In my opinion this game has gone from being something that other games would have been compared to, to something which is like other games.

Probably the best summary of 17. 7 Days used to be unique in its complex crafting and scavenger influenced treasures of finding that needed schematic etc. Its been streamlined so hard its starting to become just another survival game. And that to me is the biggest shame. This used to be a game that other games would look up to as an example of a complex game. Now its just another casual friendly shooter. With a side dish of build and craft.

 

[JaxTeller718]

30 days, that is 30 hours. As sandbox gamers we are spoiled, and as serious gamers with a lot of time to play we have a skewed sense of time investment. Many AAA games if I got 30 hours out of them before I shelved them I considered myself lucky. To a casual 30 hours is a lot of playtime. Even to me, who unless I have some looming deadline and need to work a lot of OT has 30+ hours a week to game, that's still a significant investment of time into 1 game (yes, I said it, I'm unfaithful, I play other games...it's not that I don't love you 7DTD, you just can't satisfy all my needs!). Like I brought up to someone griping about being "done" by day 50 on another thread, how many hours should it take for one to unlock the entire experience?

The issue for me is that for some odd reason every Alpha the time it takes seems to be dwindling. I thought A16 was horribly short on playtime to end game and the first week of 17 i was applauding the slower progression. Until I realized it was all a parlour trick. Its no longer. Go out and kill zeds and you can be level 60 plus by day 21, probably sooner. And the loot it outrageous. In 2 loot rns you can have all you need weapon wise to never have t loot again. Just mine for the bullets.

Its not that we expect more its that we didn't expect the game to get shorter as time went on, with so many removed and streamlined features.

 

[Noompsie]

I think I am in the mixed camp.
There are some good things about this build, I really like the new POI`s. You can tell that thought has gone into them, and towns / villages etc are beginning to look "real" and not just a random group of prefab structures. The graphics are nicer, which is a positive in relation to this game but sadly still look a bit dated.

Little things like the new food recipes are nice, but, I can still find a nice fresh meat stew in a cupboard that has probably been there for years. I can make a blueberry pie, stash it in a black sack and know that when I come back to it in 2 years time it will be as fresh as the day i baked it. The lack of food spoilage is a big bug bear for me.

Death penalty is tedious. The game lets you respawn, so I think it is pointless to add a penalty. Leave it as it was and add a legitimate iron man mode to the game.

Nerdy glasses? At the risk of sounding a bit too PC, wearing glasses does not make you a nerd. And wearing glasses does not make you smarter.

The other "Magic" items are a bit naff aswell, I think that the time taken to develop these could have been better spent.

Melee combat feels good, and quite balanced. Firearms are in a bad place. Firearm damage needs to be buffed and the rarity increased. I am at a point now where I scrap every single gun I find and solely use a sledgehammer.

Zombie AI in some instances is good, individuals and small groups behave quite nicely, but everything more than 3-4 quickly becomes a zombie conga line. Whilst this makes life easy for me and my sledgehammer, I am not playing this game for ease of zombie skull smashing, I want to be threatened. The only time I feel threatened currently is when I get smacked in the back by a ninja zombie or am being closed in on by a feral zombie that has survived (# of bullets in my inventory) + 1 bullets.

RWG, overall quality of the generated terrain is pretty nice, but roads still tend to have some glaring issues. vertical drops, and Moses like water parting. Also, they always seem to follow the same formula of Desert > Forrest > Snow. And whilst the towns are much more interesting than they have been before, they are fairly closely grouped around single highways, leaving a lot of wilderness with not much in it.

Vehicles seem good, I have not got the gyro yet as I have not grinded up to the appropriate level, but the downside I am seeing is that it takes a fair while to get to the right level for the vehicles, and by the time I got to the point where i could build the jeep, I had already found all the towns on the map. Utility of faster travel is good, but I have found that it has come too late.

I really hate the levelling system. I like the perks, but the means of unlocking perks is just silly.

These are my opinions, I do not expect sweeping changes to be made as a result of me stating them, but I wanted to leave a post here. I have been watching the forums for over a year waiting for the new release to come out, and now that it has I feel a bit sad. More and more this game is moving away from being a trailblazer to becoming something far more generic.

I think TFP have missed the sweet spot with this game, they need to stop reinventing core elements and introduce the missing ones. In my opinion this game has gone from being something that other games would have been compared to, to something which is like other games.

This post in its entirety is where I am with 7D2D at the moment. The closing paragraph sums it up.