PC How do you like A17 experimental?

[Ghostlight]

Absolute rubbish. U do think highly of yourself don't u. You're telling me all those "non qualified" players hours even though it might be early stages aren't giving good feedback? Give your opinion sure, don't make it out like everybody else's doesn't matter.
What are these MAJOR late game problems, no end game? Able to get everything? Easy to be overpowered? U didn't realize this in A16?

One problem is certainly having everything yes. At level 100 the player will have EVERYTHING he needs, all at top tier....

- All vehicles

- All weapons and Armour at tier 6

- All relevant perks maxed

- Enough mods to fill all equipment many times over

- Food no longer needed....at all

- 300k dukes and nothing whatsoever to spend them on

At this point, the ONLY thing that matters is paper and glue for shotgun ammo. Nothing else. There is no point in exploring. There is no point in looting. There is no point visiting traders (except to buy glue and ammo). THERE IS NO POINT.

And why is this any worse than A16 you rightly ask? Three reasons....

1) This maxed out point happens around when the player hits level 100. This will be around day 30. DAY 30!!!! The same point in A16, if it ever came at all, would be past day 100. The game just got a lot shorter.

2) This maxed out point is guaranteed. Everyone will get there because everything is a perk. In A16, around this time, my guns would likely be about level 300 and the hunt for gun parts would begin in earnest. In A16 I may never even get all my guns maxed, nor have everything since everything was not automatically given to the player on reaching a certain level, you had to explore and loot for it.

3) I have looted a grand total of half an average-size town to achieve this!!!! And this was the town I spawned in beside on day 1. I have hardly opened up any of my map at all as there was absolutely no needt. And I am maxed out.

A17 is for casuals who just want everything handed to them on a plate and wish to put no effort in.

And btw that is just one problem that won't be apparent to a player until he gets there. There are several others. One major one is the overall challenge of the game. Despite it's challenging start, A17 becomes super EASY after a couple of hordes. I mean even on max difficulty, it becomes easier than any alpha before it that I ever played. 2-shotting irradiated zombie cops? Horde finished by 11.30 and base took almost zero damage? LMAO

Here's another little one which is rather amusing... the Near Death trauma debuff. Completely meaningless once you are a certainly level. lol. Controlled deliberate suicide is now a method to fast travel or remove annoying crap like Infection. Even if the zombies could actually hurt me, it would't matter. ;P

 

[Ghostlight]

Absolute rubbish. U do think highly of yourself don't u. You're telling me all those "non qualified" players hours even though it might be early stages aren't giving good feedback? Give your opinion sure, don't make it out like everybody else's doesn't matter.

To directly answer your accusation....I didn't mean to come over big-headed. Of course everyone's opinions matters. But what I was trying to get at was that almost everyone who gave a positive response to this survey has likely not hit the level 100 OP point. Because once there I truly believe that everyone's opinion will become negative (or at least more negative) due to the dreadful problems that become apparent AT THAT POINT. And only at that point. They trump everything else.

My own personal opinion on A17 roller-coastered something like this:

Week 1:

omg this is hard; I have no Stamina; so frustrating; so dull too - I don't like this; POIs are a no-go, far too dangerous; how will I loot anything I need? Bullet sponge enemies? Are you serious??

Week 2:

OK I am getting over these problems; ooh graphics are great; my performance is way better and I can max all settings - fantastic! I like the combat now and the AI - I am fighting multiple Ferals and Cops at the same time. It is actually challenging but I can rise to it. I rock! Such smooth combat; POIs are actually fun now I can handle them; ooh I love this Motorbike; such a smooth drive. A17 is actually great!!!

Week 3:

I have my doubts about this perk system now; exp from zombies is forcing run and gun gameplay; not sure I like this direction. I kill zombies to become better at mining. I kill zombies to improve my weapons; I kill zombies to get more health. Hmmm. There's a bit of immersion-breaking going on here.

Week 4:

Holy ♥♥♥♥ I am maxed out and OP on day 30; seriously wtf; I now realize just how bad this perk system is - they have given me everything! There's no point in exploring any more. This was my favorite game ever. A16 was much more interesting than this and every run was always different, now it'll be the same every single time with everything given to me when I hit a certain level. I am now DEPRESSED. I do not see how they can fix this, with this fundamentally bad design.

So in theory if you gave this survey to a bunch of players who were in week 2, you'd get a glowing result for the game. However if you gave it only to players in week 4 or later, the results would be considerably worse. Who is the more informed of the 2 groups?

 

[Kage848]

To directly answer your accusation....I didn't mean to come over big-headed. Of course everyone's opinions matters. But what I was trying to get at was that almost everyone who gave a positive response to this survey has likely not hit the level 100 OP point. Because once there I truly believe that everyone's opinion will become negative (or at least more negative) due to the dreadful problems that become apparent AT THAT POINT. And only at that point. They trump everything else.
My own personal opinion on A17 roller-coastered something like this:

Week 1:

omg this is hard; I have no Stamina; so frustrating; so dull too - I don't like this; POIs are a no-go, far too dangerous; how will I loot anything I need? Bullet sponge enemies? Are you serious??

Week 2:

OK I am getting over these problems; ooh graphics are great; my performance is way better and I can max all settings - fantastic! I like the combat now and the AI - I am fighting multiple Ferals and Cops at the same time. It is actually challenging but I can rise to it. I rock! Such smooth combat; POIs are actually fun now I can handle them; ooh I love this Motorbike; such a smooth drive. A17 is actually great!!!

Week 3:

I have my doubts about this perk system now; exp from zombies is forcing run and gun gameplay; not sure I like this direction. I kill zombies to become better at mining. I kill zombies to improve my weapons; I kill zombies to get more health. Hmmm. There's a bit of immersion-breaking going on here.

Week 4:

Holy ♥♥♥♥ I am maxed out and OP on day 30; seriously wtf; I now realize just how bad this perk system is - they have given me everything! There's no point in exploring any more. This was my favorite game ever. A16 was much more interesting than this and every run was always different, now it'll be the same every single time with everything given to me when I hit a certain level. I am now DEPRESSED. I do not see how they can fix this, with this fundamentally bad design.

So in theory if you gave this survey to a bunch of players who were in week 2, you'd get a glowing result for the game. However if you gave it only to players in week 4 or later, the results would be considerably worse. Who is the more informed of the 2 groups?

So its your opinion that matter because you played more? People cant have differences of opinions? Maybe not everyone will be at end game by day 30. Different people play at different paces. I'm on day 22 and I doubt I will feel op by day 30.

So you played farther. But you have a skewed point of view because of your playstyle. Maybe some of us will agree with you in a week or 2. But can you please let us get there before you decide our views are lesser than yours just because you rushed through the game by day 30?

 

[iejen]

I like the fact that the forum looks like 90% of the users hate the game.

However, the polls mentions;

Haters; 25,38%

Neutral; 15,11%

Lovers; 58,84%

Still not the results TFP where hoping for ofcrouse.

But I think you should ask this question again 2 weeks after stable release. :strawberry:

 

[Corbit]

To directly answer your accusation....I didn't mean to come over big-headed. Of course everyone's opinions matters. But what I was trying to get at was that almost everyone who gave a positive response to this survey has likely not hit the level 100 OP point. Because once there I truly believe that everyone's opinion will become negative (or at least more negative) due to the dreadful problems that become apparent AT THAT POINT. And only at that point. They trump everything else.
My own personal opinion on A17 roller-coastered something like this:

Week 1:

omg this is hard; I have no Stamina; so frustrating; so dull too - I don't like this; POIs are a no-go, far too dangerous; how will I loot anything I need? Bullet sponge enemies? Are you serious??

Week 2:

OK I am getting over these problems; ooh graphics are great; my performance is way better and I can max all settings - fantastic! I like the combat now and the AI - I am fighting multiple Ferals and Cops at the same time. It is actually challenging but I can rise to it. I rock! Such smooth combat; POIs are actually fun now I can handle them; ooh I love this Motorbike; such a smooth drive. A17 is actually great!!!

Week 3:

I have my doubts about this perk system now; exp from zombies is forcing run and gun gameplay; not sure I like this direction. I kill zombies to become better at mining. I kill zombies to improve my weapons; I kill zombies to get more health. Hmmm. There's a bit of immersion-breaking going on here.

Week 4:

Holy ♥♥♥♥ I am maxed out and OP on day 30; seriously wtf; I now realize just how bad this perk system is - they have given me everything! There's no point in exploring any more. This was my favorite game ever. A16 was much more interesting than this and every run was always different, now it'll be the same every single time with everything given to me when I hit a certain level. I am now DEPRESSED. I do not see how they can fix this, with this fundamentally bad design.

So in theory if you gave this survey to a bunch of players who were in week 2, you'd get a glowing result for the game. However if you gave it only to players in week 4 or later, the results would be considerably worse. Who is the more informed of the 2 groups?

I agree with what you're saying. I am level 130 and am finding the game easy and boring now. I don't even have many of the perks which make eating/drinking/falling insignificant.

I found it harder at the start and thought the game was a lot better before finding out how much gameplay depth and fun the new perk system has sucked out of the game. I voted for 3rd one down, pretty sure I would have gone lower if asked after the first few hours of playing a17.

 

[meganoth]

Week 3:

I have my doubts about this perk system now; exp from zombies is forcing run and gun gameplay; not sure I like this direction. I kill zombies to become better at mining. I kill zombies to improve my weapons; I kill zombies to get more health. Hmmm. There's a bit of immersion-breaking going on here.

Week 4:

Holy ♥♥♥♥ I am maxed out and OP on day 30; seriously wtf; I now realize just how bad this perk system is - they have given me everything! There's no point in exploring any more. This was my favorite game ever. A16 was much more interesting than this and every run was always different, now it'll be the same every single time with everything given to me when I hit a certain level. I am now DEPRESSED. I do not see how they can fix this, with this fundamentally bad design.

So in theory if you gave this survey to a bunch of players who were in week 2, you'd get a glowing result for the game. However if you gave it only to players in week 4 or later, the results would be considerably worse. Who is the more informed of the 2 groups?

I think it is really obvious that zombie kill xp is too high, WAY TOO HIGH, grotesquely too high. But we also know that at least this point will be changed in the next version (at least if madmole still has some influence on Gazz's decisions :cocksure: ). And I think that change alone will work miracles with a lot of the critical points of the game (for example that building is not viable anymore and that some feel finished by day 30, and that zombies are the loot box more than ever).

Maybe after that change the perk system is still as bad for you as it is now, but maybe not.

Only in the next experimental version can we really test what the new worst balance problem is. Probably the perks themselves have to be toned down a bit and more power put into high-level mods, or some perks made "opposites" of other perks (here victoriousIII will protest heavily),..

 

[beHypE]

That being said he's got a point. There's virtually nothing that isn't unlocked by perks. You could literally unlock each recipe just by farming zeds and not exploring anything. Back in the days, like I stated in my previous post, you needed to find those schematics, and you craved to find a Crack-a-Book because it was the allmighty knowledge source. Now you can just kill monsters and put a point in your needed wisdom, boom, you got it.

This is both bad for immediate gameplay, as it doesn't provide much of an achievement and doesn't feel rewarding, and also long term, because it heavily affects replayability. I recall myself starting over A11-A16 games and thinking "welp, let's go and see what we find!!", all hyped up to see what RNG has to offer this time around. Right now, after my 3rd new playthrough, I already felt like it's redundant and that my "path" is written and solely depends on some mouse-clics in the skills tab. Not exactly thrilling.

I think it is really obvious that zombie kill xp is too high, WAY TOO HIGH, grotesquely too high. But we also know that at least this point will be changed in the next version (at least if madmole still has some influence on Gazz's decisions ). And I think that change alone will work miracles with a lot of the critical points of the game (for example that building is not viable anymore and that some feel finished by day 30, and that zombies are the loot box more than ever).

No matter which source provides experience, it won't change the fact that you will be able to put points and become a master at doing stuff you've never done before. Chopping trees and mining boulders shouldn't allow me to become a master at cooking or killing stuff with a bow. This fundamental design will NOT change no matter how well you balance EXP gains from different activities.

 

[PoppaTot]

I already felt like it's redundant and that my "path" is written and solely depends on some mouse-clics in the skills tab. Not exactly thrilling.

I have been starting to feel this way now as well, 4th playthrough, tried different perk paths, eventually just ends up the same. The only good find now is a beaker, do we know how long A16.4 will be supported?

 

[Jedo]

I am ambivalent. Unfortunately A17E still looks like this for me. <image snip>

Give me some acid and let me play your game. Damn!

And why is this any worse than A16 you rightly ask? Three reasons....
1) This maxed out point happens around when the player hits level 100. This will be around day 30. DAY 30!!!! The same point in A16, if it ever came at all, would be past day 100. The game just got a lot shorter.

I'm level 22 on Day 8.

 

[Aesir]

*snip* I also restart my game before generating said new world, as that can have issues at times.*snip*

I do this too. Before I restart the game I also go into Steam and verify my game files as an added precaution.

 

[Ghostlight]

I agree. It's such a disconnect. To get better at Mining I should kill zombies. Huh? The game really lost a heck of a lot of flavor when they removed the "do something to get better at it" aspect. And as said above, every play-through is now going to be exactly the same. Forge at 20. Bike at 30. Steel at 40 etc etc. Same thing. Same point in the game. Every damn time. And to get to those levels, just do whatever activity gives the most exp for your time, end of story. Sorry but wtf?

 

[Kage848]

Man. People got a really short memory. Who didnt have everything on day 30 in alpha 16? Minibike, check, steel tools, check, Auger, check. Hell, I usually had all this by day 21. Now on day 22 in alpha 17 in way behind the curve. Also +5 deaths, in alpha 16 I would have much less and maybe even zero.

 

[Katitof]

Early game stamina, making you feel like you are 200kg 'murikan is the only issue I have with the build, all the bugs and framerate issues aside.

 

[Ghostlight]

So its your opinion that matter because you played more?

Not because I have played more but specifically because I have hit a point in the game where it becomes really bad and you can;t really appreciate how bad it is without reaching that particular point. If that means I played more? Then yeah sure, my opinion matters more because I played more. Shrug.

People cant have differences of opinions?

Sure they can, but someone who has never seen the last 30 mins of Star Wars is not as qualified to tell me if it's a good movie or not as someone who has seen the whole thing.

Maybe not everyone will be at end game by day 30. Different people play at different paces. I'm on day 22 and I doubt I will feel op by day 30.

It is not day 30 that is significant, it is level 100. For me this happened to be on day 30, and I didn't particularly rush to get there. Did I go out my way to kill every zombie I could? Of course I did....the moment it became apparent that progression depended only on EXP, and zombie killing was the most efficient way to get EXP. Of course I did. I enjoy progression. However did I exclusively hunt zombies? Nope. I did the same amount of gathering, looting, building and killing that I always did in all previous alphas. I think most people will be around level 100 on day 30. At least most people playing co-op as I do (but that's another thread entirely).

So you played farther. But you have a skewed point of view because of your playstyle. Maybe some of us will agree with you in a week or 2. But can you please let us get there before you decide our views are lesser than yours just because you rushed through the game by day 30?

I never said your views were lesser, just that the results of the survey will not be particularly useful because of the level 100 factor skewing the result, and if only we could tie the survey results to what level players were when they answered it, we'd have a more more relevant and interesting result set.

 

[PoppaTot]

Man. People got a really short memory. Who didnt have everything on day 30 in alpha 16? Minibike, check, steel tools, check, Auger, check. Hell, I usually had all this by day 21. Now on day 22 in alpha 17 in way behind the curve. Also +5 deaths, in alpha 16 I would have much less and maybe even zero.

I have been watching your videos and enjoy them, but let's be honest, most of the deaths were learning experiences that you are less likely to make. I am sincerely happy if you find the game more difficult, honestly. But as you alluded to in a previous post, I would like to hear your honest opinion on this topic a month from now to see if you share the same opinion. Or when you're on S2:E25 for example and saying welp, here we are again, have perfect everything. It's just is a bit disappointing that the "searching/looting/mining/building" aspects have been significantly nerfed (hoping that the balancing that MM said they are working on fixes some of that) and that maybe they look at restoring some elements that a lot of the community has been asking for. I remember in one of your last A16.4 vids how genuinely excited you got when you finally found that minibike book in a bookshelf that was being destroyed, I'm guessing you won't find that excitement when you hit level 30 lol.

 

[HerrKingsley]

I recall myself starting over A11-A16 games and thinking "welp, let's go and see what we find!!", all hyped up to see what RNG has to offer this time around. Right now, after my 3rd new playthrough, I already felt like it's redundant and that my "path" is written and solely depends on some mouse-clics in the skills tab. Not exactly thrilling.

I agree.. But there are some players out there that HATE RNG, and want to be in control of their on destiny.

So the question is where are TFP heading? Less RNG or going back to RNG influencing more on the gameplay.

 

[Jeffny]

Very good update but...

A lot of block are missing ( jail door, rebar frame corner etc)

Digging is very,very dangerous ( in désert 2blocs removed and 10 collapse )

The 4x4 truck is too weak

The new poi are beautiful

Nice job

 

[meganoth]

No matter which source provides experience, it won't change the fact that you will be able to put points and become a master at doing stuff you've never done before. Chopping trees and mining boulders shouldn't allow me to become a master at cooking or killing stuff with a bow. This fundamental design will NOT change no matter how well you balance EXP gains from different activities.

Because you say so? Lots of games with a class-less RPG system have worked quite well. The legendary Fallout 1 and 2 for example if memory doesn't fool me. At the moment a builder in A17e has to kill zombies to advance his building and that is wrong. If he gets equivalent xp from building and mining then he will just mine and build and put his points mainly in mining and building perks. And nobody with a sane mind will put points into bows if he just wants to build and never uses the bow.

If it disturbs you that he could put a point or two into a bow perk shortly BEFORE using the bow instead of shortly after, then at least I would say: I don't care. I don't care if others do it and I don't care if I do it. The difference is minimal. I will put points into perks I'm heavily using. Anything else would be idiotic.

The hypothetical idiot putting all his points into bow skills when all he does is mining IS hypothetical.

 

[Ghostlight]

Man. People got a really short memory. Who didnt have everything on day 30 in alpha 16?

You didn't, and I didn't.

Minibike, check, steel tools, check, Auger, check. Hell, I usually had all this by day 21.

All weapons at level 600? Nope

All armour at 600? Nope

Every perk that matters maxed? Nope

Able to craft every single item the game? Nope

Totally maxed in terms of player firepower, as in cannot get any more powerful no matter what? Nope

And I've had at least 2 runs in previous alphas where I never, ever found the mini-bike. And at least one where I never found the Shotgun book. You know why I remember these? Because those play-throughs were MEMORABLE specifically because those BPs never showed.

Now on day 22 in alpha 17 in way behind the curve. Also +5 deaths, in alpha 16 I would have much less and maybe even zero.

Yeah sure, the early to mid game in A17 is great. Which is exactly what I said.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree.. But there are some players out there that HATE RNG, and want to be in control of their on destiny.So the question is where are TFP heading? Less RNG or going back to RNG influencing more on the gameplay.

Exactly why I said this build was for casual players who want everything handed to them on a plate with no effort required.

 

[lazyknob]

Not because I have played more but specifically because I have hit a point in the game where it becomes really bad and you can;t really appreciate how bad it is without reaching that particular point. If that means I played more? Then yeah sure, my opinion matters more because I played more. Shrug.


Sure they can, but someone who has never seen the last 30 mins of Star Wars is not as qualified to tell me if it's a good movie or not as someone who has seen the whole thing.

It is not day 30 that is significant, it is level 100. For me this happened to be on day 30, and I didn't particularly rush to get there. Did I go out my way to kill every zombie I could? Of course I did....the moment it became apparent that progression depended only on EXP, and zombie killing was the most efficient way to get EXP. Of course I did. I enjoy progression. However did I exclusively hunt zombies? Nope. I did the same amount of gathering, looting, building and killing that I always did in all previous alphas. I think most people will be around level 100 on day 30. At least most people playing co-op as I do (but that's another thread entirely).

I never said your views were lesser, just that the results of the survey will not be particularly useful because of the level 100 factor skewing the result, and if only we could tie the survey results to what level players were when they answered it, we'd have a more more relevant and interesting result set.

I don't necessarily agree with your views because I have not read your entire conversation, but it does annoy when there's always that pointless white knight.

You are not diminishing anyone's views, but merely pointing out that players at varying junctures tend to skew towards certain opinions, which also changes as they progress in their gameplay. I don't think I'm clarifying anything because you were clear enough in your earlier post. There's always that white knight that needs to be a white knight, just like when you hold a hammer, everything looks like a nail.