PC How do you like A17 experimental?
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lord_ahriman
Member
Overall A17 is a big step forward, but it really has some bad things.
Like
- Smarter zombies
- Loot is better
- Slow progression: I think it's a good thing because on A16 we were playing like God as soon as day 25 ~ 30 tops
- Living in fear: I don't care the so called "hardcore players" saying A17 it's easier, because I'm not seeing this as overall opinion. You need to play really smart before looting POI's
- Perk system: I love it, it needs some balance but it's freaking awesome
Hate
- Downgraded blocks (hp): new pathing is a threat, so we should get at least same HP as A16 (I'm ok with reinforced concrete not downgrading though)
- Traps: we need a steel option and current spikes should have more hp (damage wise it's good enough)
- XP from mining/building
- Sensing/hearing should be way less efective when player is in the underground (non horde nights, of course): I'm a builder so I need tons of materials and I really hate that I can't start mining 20 ~ 25 meters below surface because it's where we start getting good ore veins and right now I need to go 35+ meters in order to avoid zombies. And we need those ores because boulders are very few
- Concrete blocks way cheaper: as a builder, selling concrete blocks was a good way to get money and now it's gone
- Bones: no gore blocks are a big problem because killing animals and a few gore blocks on the road will not get you enough and glue is a very important commodity. Early game it may be enough, but mid - endgame we will need tons of it in order to craft duct tape and paper (not to mention new recipes, mods)
Like
- Smarter zombies
- Loot is better
- Slow progression: I think it's a good thing because on A16 we were playing like God as soon as day 25 ~ 30 tops
- Living in fear: I don't care the so called "hardcore players" saying A17 it's easier, because I'm not seeing this as overall opinion. You need to play really smart before looting POI's
- Perk system: I love it, it needs some balance but it's freaking awesome
Hate
- Downgraded blocks (hp): new pathing is a threat, so we should get at least same HP as A16 (I'm ok with reinforced concrete not downgrading though)
- Traps: we need a steel option and current spikes should have more hp (damage wise it's good enough)
- XP from mining/building
- Sensing/hearing should be way less efective when player is in the underground (non horde nights, of course): I'm a builder so I need tons of materials and I really hate that I can't start mining 20 ~ 25 meters below surface because it's where we start getting good ore veins and right now I need to go 35+ meters in order to avoid zombies. And we need those ores because boulders are very few
- Concrete blocks way cheaper: as a builder, selling concrete blocks was a good way to get money and now it's gone
- Bones: no gore blocks are a big problem because killing animals and a few gore blocks on the road will not get you enough and glue is a very important commodity. Early game it may be enough, but mid - endgame we will need tons of it in order to craft duct tape and paper (not to mention new recipes, mods)
After you learn to let go of Pre Alpha 17 playstyles it is great. Tested in SP last night as usually play MP with friends on private server. It took me 2 hours to get to level 8. Now that I unstard how to use the wood club and the power attack it is so easy. Feathers are everywhere so the bow is a great help. Sure clearing buildings on your first day is harder but still able to do it. Cleared out a large tool store without dying.
For those that find it too hard seems that is an easy solve. Set up the difficulties so they can easily make the game what they want as we do with servers. Then they can have their building sim or their explorer game on easy difficulty and experienced players can have their hardcore. All this without having to go in and fiddle with game files. I know how to mod the game but I would rather play the game then spend time modding it and fixing what I broke.
For those that find it too hard seems that is an easy solve. Set up the difficulties so they can easily make the game what they want as we do with servers. Then they can have their building sim or their explorer game on easy difficulty and experienced players can have their hardcore. All this without having to go in and fiddle with game files. I know how to mod the game but I would rather play the game then spend time modding it and fixing what I broke.
giKoN
New member
Regarding slow progression I just wanna say that after wiping the world we had 4 players with level +60 and > 500 zombie kills after day 5 of the world. It just pretty much shifted from digging in the desert to hunting down zombies. But as soon as you have your weapons skilled it's still pretty easy.
Thats why I think that the value in the gameplay of 7 days doesnt come from limiting the progression to "enjoy" a longer grind - but from the variety of other things to do when your level and skill is outperforming the AI and zombies.
One of the things to do - is PVP. Just saying.
Thats why I think that the value in the gameplay of 7 days doesnt come from limiting the progression to "enjoy" a longer grind - but from the variety of other things to do when your level and skill is outperforming the AI and zombies.
One of the things to do - is PVP. Just saying.
suicidalhamster
New member
In general I like it. It has bad aspects but overall it is improved.
love:
-new AI
-environment
-shared exp
-specializations (really like)
meh:
-new weapons system (need more playtime to evaluate)
-quality system (ie:quality 1 club same stats as quality 6. again, more playtime with weapon mods might change this)
not so much:
-level progression (items, skills and abilities locked behind arbitrary barricades. aka "you must be this tall to ride this ride")
-other things (mainly existing bugs so not mentioning)
my opinion sits in the middle of:
-In general I like it. It has bad aspects but overall it is improved.
and
-In general I love it. The things I don't like are overshadowed by the good.
love:
-new AI
-environment
-shared exp
-specializations (really like)
meh:
-new weapons system (need more playtime to evaluate)
-quality system (ie:quality 1 club same stats as quality 6. again, more playtime with weapon mods might change this)
not so much:
-level progression (items, skills and abilities locked behind arbitrary barricades. aka "you must be this tall to ride this ride")
-other things (mainly existing bugs so not mentioning)
my opinion sits in the middle of:
-In general I like it. It has bad aspects but overall it is improved.
and
-In general I love it. The things I don't like are overshadowed by the good.
I agree with what Dawg711 said above, I had to forget some A16 playstyles, but my vote was for "I like it."
What I love:
New POI's are amazing -- I love how every other building is collapsing (as they should be in a zombie apocalypse) and you really have to check every corner and be on guard at ALL times. TFP really knocked the ball out of the park with the diversity & volume of new buildings and they deserve to be commended.
Reworks to loot tables - there are fewer overall containers but you actually find more than 2 glass jars and rotting flesh in a kitchen now
Addition of modding to weapons
More several-story+ buildings, although the game's optimization hasn't really caught up with it yet (even in A16, my fps tanked from ~100 to 30 in the big crack-a-book frequently)
Quest system has lots of potential to reduce the tedium & is very easy to expand in future updates
New AI pathing is still not great at handling complex obstacles but is way better than in A16. No more beyblade zombies.
What could be improved:
!!THE PERK SYSTEM!! While I don't hate it, this new system completely removes an aspect of 7DTD that I really liked, which was that if you wanted to improve at a skill, you had to use that skill, such as mining or medicine. Here it feels like an element of player choice was taken out of the game and moved into a menu system, which reduced my immersion; if I want to get better at chopping wood with axes, my best course in A17 is to go loot POI's for experience and then buy a point that makes me better at chopping down trees. I don't have to chop down a tree at all to improve at it. That just feels silly to me.
Zombies flooding out of weak walls and trapping you inside a POI.. I think you should always be able to avoid a dangerous situation by making smart choices and if you ambush my poverty-stricken, wooden bow-wielding ass with 10 lumberjack zombies inside a house with no option besides bending over, it doesn't feel exciting or dangerous, it just feels like a cheap trick to make me wait X minutes for the death debuff to fade. That being said, I like the increased risk & danger of POI's -- but something like a coordinated 4-corner zombie ambush in a tiny house should never happen at level 1.
Item quality/durability system -- This is one of my least favorite changes. I think a 6 quality steel pickaxe should be substantially better in both block damage & durability than a tier 1 like in A16, and furthermore, be extremely rare (and impossible to craft without endgame perks). In A16 it feels so good to find a steel pickaxe at level 4 & gain partial access to areas, having to make choices on what you would explore, rationing the remaining durability of your tool. And then, later, when you're crafting high-quality steel tools like it's nothing, it also feels immensely gratifying to be able to tear through those same doors you had to whack away at or skip entirely.
Overall impression: Most of the changes made in A17 are a net positive, and most of my complaints are not with new sweeping framework, but minor details that will most definitely be tweaked & improved in the future. Some of these changes have made progression more linear and reduced immersion, which I dislike, but overall, TFP put a lot of work into A17 and it shows.
What I love:
New POI's are amazing -- I love how every other building is collapsing (as they should be in a zombie apocalypse) and you really have to check every corner and be on guard at ALL times. TFP really knocked the ball out of the park with the diversity & volume of new buildings and they deserve to be commended.
Reworks to loot tables - there are fewer overall containers but you actually find more than 2 glass jars and rotting flesh in a kitchen now
Addition of modding to weapons
More several-story+ buildings, although the game's optimization hasn't really caught up with it yet (even in A16, my fps tanked from ~100 to 30 in the big crack-a-book frequently)
Quest system has lots of potential to reduce the tedium & is very easy to expand in future updates
New AI pathing is still not great at handling complex obstacles but is way better than in A16. No more beyblade zombies.
What could be improved:
!!THE PERK SYSTEM!! While I don't hate it, this new system completely removes an aspect of 7DTD that I really liked, which was that if you wanted to improve at a skill, you had to use that skill, such as mining or medicine. Here it feels like an element of player choice was taken out of the game and moved into a menu system, which reduced my immersion; if I want to get better at chopping wood with axes, my best course in A17 is to go loot POI's for experience and then buy a point that makes me better at chopping down trees. I don't have to chop down a tree at all to improve at it. That just feels silly to me.
Zombies flooding out of weak walls and trapping you inside a POI.. I think you should always be able to avoid a dangerous situation by making smart choices and if you ambush my poverty-stricken, wooden bow-wielding ass with 10 lumberjack zombies inside a house with no option besides bending over, it doesn't feel exciting or dangerous, it just feels like a cheap trick to make me wait X minutes for the death debuff to fade. That being said, I like the increased risk & danger of POI's -- but something like a coordinated 4-corner zombie ambush in a tiny house should never happen at level 1.
Item quality/durability system -- This is one of my least favorite changes. I think a 6 quality steel pickaxe should be substantially better in both block damage & durability than a tier 1 like in A16, and furthermore, be extremely rare (and impossible to craft without endgame perks). In A16 it feels so good to find a steel pickaxe at level 4 & gain partial access to areas, having to make choices on what you would explore, rationing the remaining durability of your tool. And then, later, when you're crafting high-quality steel tools like it's nothing, it also feels immensely gratifying to be able to tear through those same doors you had to whack away at or skip entirely.
Overall impression: Most of the changes made in A17 are a net positive, and most of my complaints are not with new sweeping framework, but minor details that will most definitely be tweaked & improved in the future. Some of these changes have made progression more linear and reduced immersion, which I dislike, but overall, TFP put a lot of work into A17 and it shows.
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vonstorm
New member
PVP is always the way to go for enemy challenge, but its also a cop out for a large portion of the gaming industry. I was at a seminar where it was lamented that the increase in PVP titles was hampering gaming AI development in general (to be honest this was a while ago). However you can imagine that AI development has been watered down because it is cheaper and easier to develop a game without AI (hence all the battle royale games) until it becomes the norm, and there is less of a pool of development to draw from, or it only gets so far "because the human opponents will be better" and the AI just runs interference.
The problem with alot of AI is their rigidity. They have a quarterback checkdown of what parameters to look for and how to react. If you add the random element it may make some of them do something less intelligent, but in packs (or hordes, or units, or gangs) it makes them a lot more unpredictable. Some may flank while others suppress, Some may assault, while others heal, and it will always be somewhat different and less predictable.
The last thing AI should do is contain parameters where its just not a good idea to engage. You need to have to evade some enemies. The sense of risk and accomplishment comes from the decision to engage or not, and surprise when they dont behave as they did last time.
Gas
New member
It's pretty much like all the updates since I've been playing. I like about half of it and scratch my head at the other half of it. I voted ambivalent but that's just kinda how I feel about the base game anyway. So I play it and make it how I want. That part is awesome. Not many games you can just do whatever the hell you want to in it. Mod it, break it, cheat, play legit, creative, whatever you wanna do. I just pretend the full release was years ago and all the other updates have been mods to that. Works for me!
Voted "In general I dislike it", but I don't think that expresses it very well. 7D2D is my first crafting/survival game (A16, Jan 2017), and I was hooked on the merits of that alone. To me the zombies/predators are a necessary element of challenge, and the visible elements of the upcoming story ties it all together/tops it off. This game was a gem that I didn't see coming. I think I like what you guys are wanting to do, and in principle I'm certainly in favor of attaining your ultimate vision for the game, but A17 "experimental" feels like a b******ization of A16 at this point, with better graphics, some awesome improvements, and a lot of POTENTIAL. It feels like A17 took away a lot of the things I ENJOYED about A16, and left the rest in limbo. Personally I wish you'd left it in the oven for a few more months, though I know you felt pressure to release after so long--this is just too major a revision in too early a stage of completion. I think it's charitable to say this release is a recipe for discontentment. It's hard enough to justify changes this significant during the open development of a game. I was and still am determined to keep an open mind. If I were more familiar with the Fun Pimps, I'd probably be rooting for you (in-between the bouts of cursing and complaining). Now give me my G** D*** LCB's (plural) back, ya stingy m***** f***ers. 
joeevaristo
New member
I said "Love it," but of course there are a few things I'd like to see changed. I'm not a fan of the specific death penalty in place, I think mining stamina needs major rebalancing, terrain generation is almost there but still needs some work to get rid of the roads ending in giant walls, and I was hoping to see a hybrid of the skill systems from A16 and A17. But in the grand scheme? If it was released when the rest of the current feature set is finished, bugs are fixed, and intended balance updates are made--I'd be pretty happy overall.
Other than the gamestage challenge levels being thrown at the player is about 20-30% too advanced for SP on Nomad, the game is pretty slick.
Between Adventurer and Nomad, adventurer's combat is painfully easy, but the bloodmoon hordes can be taken down by dawn. Nomads' hordes cannot be cleared before dawn in SP, but the individual combat balance is just right. I narrow this down to Nomads' horde scaling being too difficult for an average 'take them on' single player experience, and may need to ease on the brakes just slightly for that perfect feel.
Other than poor ranged weapon balance compared to melee (bullet sponge problem) and broke perks (eg, blunderbuss & shotgun shells not receiving damage bonuses, armor not receiving improved DR), and it being way too freaking dark to see during the daytime, much less at night, the game is in a good place.
It's not A16 anymore, and I hope TFP settles on a progression mechanic soon, but what is present is perfectly fine once working.
Between Adventurer and Nomad, adventurer's combat is painfully easy, but the bloodmoon hordes can be taken down by dawn. Nomads' hordes cannot be cleared before dawn in SP, but the individual combat balance is just right. I narrow this down to Nomads' horde scaling being too difficult for an average 'take them on' single player experience, and may need to ease on the brakes just slightly for that perfect feel.
Other than poor ranged weapon balance compared to melee (bullet sponge problem) and broke perks (eg, blunderbuss & shotgun shells not receiving damage bonuses, armor not receiving improved DR), and it being way too freaking dark to see during the daytime, much less at night, the game is in a good place.
It's not A16 anymore, and I hope TFP settles on a progression mechanic soon, but what is present is perfectly fine once working.
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joeevaristo
New member
I'm not generally a fan of encumbrance in games, but...have you worn a real armor helmet before? They're heavy. Unless you're in amazing shape, boots and a helmet will slow you down and tire you out just as much as any other armor.
A day in these leather boots and this helmet was EXHAUSTING.
...I'm not here to discuss my feelings.
One issue I've run into is a slow leveling while having zeds turned off and not building - just nomading around random gen, sightseeing and looting. I like to "play" you know, but this is just an exception I suppose ( if i started building stuff, I might level up faster ).
Now, aside from this there are a few peculiarities I find could be sorted out rather easily with some UI tweaking:
The comparator feature is nice, I like this, but it occasionally gets wonky and I have no idea what it's comparing the item to.
One issue I've run into is a slow leveling while having zeds turned off and not building - just nomading around random gen, sightseeing and looting. I like to "play" you know, but this is just an exception I suppose ( if i started building stuff, I might level up faster ).
Now, aside from this there are a few peculiarities I find could be sorted out rather easily with some UI tweaking:
- Character stats and the avatar are occluding one another, so the actual character screen has become cumbersome or essentially lost it's prior full-feature nature.
- The above arrangement has made discerning what food is doing to hunger and thirst an oddball thing to keep track of along side of what the character is wearing ( and what, if anything is going on with that equipment ).
- I can't make sense of Mods - they're actual use is poorly described ( if this simply hasn't gotten a fully dumbed down or expository journal entry, then that's that I suppose ).
- Health is a mystery hiding behind food and water, or is stamina a product of food and water, or health is the product of consumption - what is going on here? I have to look behind my avatar in the cellphone signal button section ( yall could really use a better icon for this ) in order to figure this stuff out.
- Food/water buffs count up to what? This timer exists, but I have no idea why.
- Food items, in particular: Don't show what they cook in to stat wise ( there's no weighing the benefits of a cooked potato vs a raw potato if you don't already have a cooked potato - the potential result is not shown in the cooking menu at the campfire )
- There's no one-stop encyclopedia of items, craftable or otherwise, that one can turn to so that one can look at to solve the above mentioned problem.
- There's no one-stop encyclopedia of effects, buffs, etc, either.
- The prior four list items, most importantly, make setting long term goals, or even knowing how to set long term goals that much more difficult. This makes classing the character out as a builder, or miner, or what have you a bit difficult on account of scattered needs and generalities associated with skill requisites. I guess you would call these the knock-on effects.
The comparator feature is nice, I like this, but it occasionally gets wonky and I have no idea what it's comparing the item to.
I don't get why still, I can't just plop some eggs in a frying pan and make some scrambled eggs.
It totally ruins the game.
Power attacks, its like why have regular attack at all. Make it use slightly more stam.
I do not see enough zombies in the wild, progression is slow as a result.
More improvements for speed, at least make SLI work without it being complicated.
It totally ruins the game.
Power attacks, its like why have regular attack at all. Make it use slightly more stam.
I do not see enough zombies in the wild, progression is slow as a result.
More improvements for speed, at least make SLI work without it being complicated.
tentative thumbs up.
I like the controversial item quality/mod changes...a lot.
I'm a bit disappointed about the perks...I always liked the "get better at it as you do it, with skills to supplement" aspect, but its not unworkable (in general its ok...it drops to "ehhhh..." at the current level gates, which feel high).
I'm fine with zombie block damage, but upset by player block damage, OR vice versa...basically i hate the disconnect in zombie block vs. player block damage.
I utterly and completely loathe the Near Death Trauma debuff...it is a complete game breaker for me...I'm currently "dealing with it" by console commanding it out whenever it happens.
I like all the new content.
I like the controversial item quality/mod changes...a lot.
I'm a bit disappointed about the perks...I always liked the "get better at it as you do it, with skills to supplement" aspect, but its not unworkable (in general its ok...it drops to "ehhhh..." at the current level gates, which feel high).
I'm fine with zombie block damage, but upset by player block damage, OR vice versa...basically i hate the disconnect in zombie block vs. player block damage.
I utterly and completely loathe the Near Death Trauma debuff...it is a complete game breaker for me...I'm currently "dealing with it" by console commanding it out whenever it happens.
I like all the new content.