PC How do you like A17 experimental?

[Wildgrave]

Yep like it a lot. Some of the gating seems extreme but that can be balanced. Has slowed down progression which suits my play style as I love early game and just doing my own thing and RPing, but I can see how that may put some people off. The modding is great too, going to make life a lot easier for us to change the bits we don't like. All in all I think the future is bright

 

[Krougal]

LOL, no votes for "It is perfection. I love everything about it."

Keep rocking the fixes and tweaks though and I hope to be able to say that when the "E" comes off the build.

 

[Roland]

Once u work out how to deal with the zombies (always run) it very quickly became an xp grind. They also run slower than A16 which is a big downer as it means they're less of a threat. A16 you had to stick to roads or use terrain to out run the fast ones, running bikers were a threat, but now you can out run anything on any terrain, much less threatening.

You'll be glad to know that in the next update there will be new options for zombie speed. Speeds can be selected for zombies during the day and night, for ferals, and for bloodmoon. Four speeds for now: Walk, Jog, Run, Sprint. All but Sprint are slower zombie speeds with sprint being the default run speed. They are planning a fifth speed which would exceed the player's speed for higher difficulty.

With these options you'll be able to have zombie walk all the time but ferals run but everyone runs on bloodmoon. Or Run during the day but walk at night. Or Everyone jogs to increase POI pressure. or whatever strikes your fancy.

 

[grieferbastard]

I love the direction it's going. It's experimental so the new stuff that needs tested/examined is getting dialed up way more than it would in release.

 

[SickPuppy]

You'll be glad to know that in the next update there will be new options for zombie speed. Speeds can be selected for zombies during the day and night, for ferals, and for bloodmoon. Four speeds for now: Walk, Jog, Run, Sprint. All but Sprint are slower zombie speeds with sprint being the default run speed. They are planning a fifth speed which would exceed the player's speed for higher difficulty.
With these options you'll be able to have zombie walk all the time but ferals run but everyone runs on bloodmoon. Or Run during the day but walk at night. Or Everyone jogs to increase POI pressure. or whatever strikes your fancy.

Very cool, very very cool. That fifth gear put a big smile on my face. +1 this.

 

[Krougal]

You'll be glad to know that in the next update there will be new options for zombie speed. Speeds can be selected for zombies during the day and night, for ferals, and for bloodmoon. Four speeds for now: Walk, Jog, Run, Sprint. All but Sprint are slower zombie speeds with sprint being the default run speed. They are planning a fifth speed which would exceed the player's speed for higher difficulty.
With these options you'll be able to have zombie walk all the time but ferals run but everyone runs on bloodmoon. Or Run during the day but walk at night. Or Everyone jogs to increase POI pressure. or whatever strikes your fancy.

WAIT!WHAT?

*sheds tears of joy*

You better not be trolling us!

 

[Viktoriusiii]

Yeah I don't think anyone should vote for "hate everything" even me... who has constantly hated on nearly everything they did... like the new vehicle system and that ressources finally drop a big amount on finishing it. Also the graphics are nice, when not counting performance and the weird graphic bugs.

Other than that... I really have problems though finding things I like. The perksystem was more fleshed out and had more promise (even if it was unbalanced) in A16 and A17 feels stale and handholdy (because of levelgating), the Zombie A.I. is good... but not realistic! They avoid traps and rather chew threw 10k+ hp to get to me... are they allergic to wood/iron or something? While I like the overall slowing down, it was completly overdone, a lot of actions become tedious instead of fun (upgrading blocks with a stoneaxe feels sluggish, digging and mining can only be done 5-7 hits at a time, you cant run more then 50m without needing to eat another meat...), POIs are designed deathtraps and not immersive spooky houses, treefalldamage was completely cut out (WHY? it was so fun killing a whole conga line with one tree), trading doesnt feel as rewarding, as buying stuff doesn't give xp (but thats a balancing issue, not a core change), locking certain things behind levelgates that only improve fun is INSANE! If I want a forge day 1 I just look for one of those boring ass POIs that have one. Boom done! If you absolutely want iron tools pre day 14 to be locked to traders and working stiff pois, then at least give us the forge on lvl 1! We still need the leather and the iron pipe! Same goes for limb explosion! I don't want instakill headexplosions! But give us at least the chance on lvl 1 to pop it when it would die anyways... or an arm if we constantly hit it... or the legs... WHY is fun levelgated? Its not like there is any purpose to targeting the limbs! Headshots always are preferable anyways.

Why did log spikes get removed? Yes they were kinda buggy, but at least they were a trap. Now we only have barbed wire, which doesnt do any real dmg and spikes which break AND dont deal real damage... not to mention that zombies try and avoid them no matter what! They rather chow down insane amounts of hp to get to you.

My feedback:

A17 is a dumbed down, slower (not in a positive way, more sluggish then rewarding), version of A16 that tells the player when he can do stuff he likes, instead of letting him chose! (If I want to have 10 str on day 4, why am I not allowed? I still have 0 fortitude, agility and all the other good stuff!) Not to mention that zombie pois feel punishing if you dont wake every zombie up by jumping and kill them first! (no counterplay only to get the player in trouble! BAD SYSTEM!)

There are countless things on the negative side... They sacrifice fun and immersion for some forced difficulty. And if you like it, that is fine. I don't. Not because I'm not good enough... I still play on insane and less loot and 64 bloodmoon zombies... It just doesn't feel rewarding, but punishing!

This playlist, and especially this video in particular (skip to 3:21 to hear about reward vs punishment in gamedesign) is something TFPs should REALLY take to heart! This one video alone details nearly ALL of the flaws in A17 (Roland please! If you read this! Take the time to watch these 10 minutes! I've never asked something like this! But do! And you might understand where I come from!)

 

[Savage11]

I am liking most of it. I would like to see more balancing done with XP and attributes and perks. I love the vehicles and the way they handle now. The new POIs and trader quest are fun. The AI I am not so sure of as yet, I do like how they are smarter about pathing but the damage multipliers might need more work.

I haven't even given building a chance as there doesn't seem to be much point until you have survived 2-3 hordes anyways. I have not made it to that point yet. I have been playing on all default settings except Airdrops are turned off and sometimes I bite off more than I can chew on a later tier quest and I play Dead is Dead. I kinda wish that setting came back.

 

[Supanub]

Mixed about it.

+Feedback from combat is great. Crosshairs while aiming down the bow allows for some silly 30+ block sniping shots. Bonus points when they get hit and fall on the ground. Sledgehammer hits on vultures and seeing them ragdoll 5m+ away gives the sense of OOMPH in the swings.

+Mod System is great though needs to be fleshed out some more.

+PoI designs are fantastic. Props to the creators.

-Early game (pre level 20) resource acquisition is tedious and slow due to lack of tools and stamina issues. Really hinders builder-oriented players.

-AI needs more variation. Current AI is great but too predictable. Maybe the more meaty zombie types should prefer breaking down everything if there's no path to the player within 5-10 blocks. Maybe all of them spawn with a random value that determines the pathing algorithm they use and how far they will take a certain path until deciding to flail their arms at walls.

-Gamestage seems to advance far too quickly. Fighting irradiated zombies by day 14 bloodmoon and whatnot is seems bit excessive when no reliable source of ammo for guns exist. Add in the number of zombies that spawn via PoIs, hordes, and random spawns, it makes it seem like the player is bound to die sooner or later. Don't mind it too much but there's still bugs associated with dying.

Issues (that bother me)

-Audio issues still exist. Immersion breaking when a zombie is right behind you but you don't hear it until it's slapping your butt.

-Death Bag falling through the world exists. Not sure what causes it but have had it occur twice out of the 5 or so times I've died in a17e. Certainly isn't above the marked location either as there's nothing above the marker unless you consider the sky.

 

[DaVegaNL]

LOL, no votes for "It is perfection. I love everything about it."Keep rocking the fixes and tweaks though and I hope to be able to say that when the "E" comes off the build.

.. I did. ^^

 

[Melandreal]

It just doesn't feel rewarding, but punishing!

Agree with you and the video is sums up what I think too.

Carrot vs stick, reward vs punishment, risk vs reward.

My likes:

I love the new POI's, but this is pretty much all I love about A17.

My dislikes:

Forced difficulty, if you don't die - the gamestage gets harder! There should be a reward for surviving, not a punishment!

The sluggish gameplay, forced level gating.

The early game can seem too hard and the later game way too easy (not including BM hordes in this obviously)

The game is becoming a bit too whackamole, encouraging you to kill and not avoid, just to achieve 2000 kills to enable you to learn how to craft a vegetable stew...!

 

[Jedo]

The funny thing about the video (and you saying that it hits on the flaws of A17) is that it talks about using rewards to get players to play how you think they should--the very thing that so many people are complaining about. I also would highlight how it lauded some simplification as a way of directing the player...again, something that players are complaining about.

 

[vonstorm]

You'll be glad to know that in the next update there will be new options for zombie speed. Speeds can be selected for zombies during the day and night, for ferals, and for bloodmoon. Four speeds for now: Walk, Jog, Run, Sprint. All but Sprint are slower zombie speeds with sprint being the default run speed. They are planning a fifth speed which would exceed the player's speed for higher difficulty.
With these options you'll be able to have zombie walk all the time but ferals run but everyone runs on bloodmoon. Or Run during the day but walk at night. Or Everyone jogs to increase POI pressure. or whatever strikes your fancy.

See - options are good,

add options for zombie dig, level gating etc and no more tweaking ad nauseum for playstyles

 

[fazi]

I voted In general I love it. The things I don't like are overshadowed by the good.

I really like the new challenge, the game still needs some balance, for example a little more xp and resources from stone axe mining, i would like back the weapon parts, maybe 1-2 weapons craftable, and the rest from loot/trader, better RGW , but in general i really like A17!

 

[Viktoriusiii]

is that it talks about using rewards to get players to play how you think they should--the very thing that so many people are complaining about.

WHO???

I only see posts complaining about PUNISHING the playstyle you like... And that makes sense, because nothing in this game rewards you (well not nothing... obviously... hyperbole!) you want to charge in POIs? 5 ferals!

You want to start building your base from day 1? No forge and mining without perks takes FOREVER!

Want to be a human wreckingmachine and dont skill anything into anything else? NO! YOU ARE NOT LEVEL 'xx' YET!!!

Tell me where the game incentivises a certain playstyle by rewarding the player (like "complete the trader quest in under 3 minutes for an extra 2000 dukes") the only things are perks that go with "hit them 5,4,3 times in a row for extra damage" but the only time when this is necessary is on hordenight and then they run and hitting them consecutively is near impossible because the hitboxes are kinda broken.

Its all about "we don't want you to build from day one" "dont want you do go completely into smashing heads with the sledgehammer from the beginning" so we simply lock it away/make it painfully slow until you are the required level to get the perks.

 

[RestInPieces]

Good video. "Given the chance, players will optimize the fun out of the game". So bloody true. Sometimes intentionally, most times unintentionally. That's the topic of most of my posts lately. And the example with Blizzard is a pretty good one to demonstrate how to achieve the same thing, using more clever ways that will not feel penalizing to the players. Same with gating here, there are always better ways to achieve it.

Of course though, due to humans being humans, almost none will ever admit that "telling him how to play" or "protect him from himself" might actually be good. Yet it happens all the time without them realizing it Watching a DS dev interview - it was the reason DS never had difficulty sliders.

When it comes to a good game and "controlled experience", it's like going to a 3-star Michelin restaurant - you may love ketchup, but you would be a fool to to bathe that *insert random recipe with weird french-name* in ketchup.

 

[Ttocs]

I'm liking everything so far except the stamina, and I am pretty good at micromanaging with it (scavenging while it regens, repairing, not spending all etc) I feel like a small reduction to the cost of sprinting or restoring coffee/beer to their former glory to give more stam and I would be perfectly happy with everything. Will add that ive only played on nave so far so havnt seen what RWG has become.

 

[vonstorm]

Good video, but a little simplistic. I didnt see any sandbox games (maybe I missed it?) where by definition its an open game-style, not to be rewarded or penalized. It didnt mention tweaking AI, or adding random behaviour to make a player react to a changing situation differently than they did the last time.

Also I agree that players will optimize the fun out of the game, but the word "initially" is missing. Replayability isnt just, hey a different map, but changing parameters of the game, either through options that change the nuances or a random element that changes not just the map (RWG) but also the threat. For example, if on each RWG there was a random spawn modifier - so more or less spawns, more or less wandering hordes, blood moon + - 1-3 days. The more options a plater can pick, or set to random the better replayability.

Devs can push their vision of the game by setting the defaults, ie the way its meant to be played. But if you force that it cuts down on replayability, and for 7dtd many players have huge amounts of hours in already.

 

[Jedo]

WHO???I only see posts complaining about PUNISHING the playstyle you like... Tell me where the game incentivises a certain playstyle by rewarding the player...

I'm guessing all those posts complaining about zombie xp being the only good source of xp and the devs forcing people to become fighters must have been in my head. Silly me.

 

[Viktoriusiii]

It's only a video about player choice and risk/reward reward vs punishment

he does have a seperate video about AI, difficultie, skilltrees and more! And I highly encourage those videos too. But this video was most important, because I feel that is A17 biggest weakness! Its punishing! Not rewarding. Everything feels like work. Thats why I linked that specific video.

And this hold true for sandbox. In Minecraft you are incentivised to mine, even though you can easily build stuff from surface blocks.

In any game, there should be some sort of incentive, or it becomes boring real fast!