PC How do you like A17 experimental NOW?

How do you like A17 experimental NOW?

  • It is the worst version yet. I hate everything about it.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • In general I hate it. The things I do like are overshadowed by the bad.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • In general I dislike it. It has good aspects but overall it is worse.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • In general I'm ambivalent. I have mixed feelings or am still unsure.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • In general I like it. It has bad aspects but overall it is improved.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • In general I love it. The things I don't like are overshadowed by the good.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It is the best version yet. I love everything about it.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
I already have it on the easiest setting. Single zombies or even two are usually not the problem, its when I get swarmed or stunned. Seems like the number of zombies has increased. I guess there are settings to lower the numbers, maybe ill try that....dont want to make it too boring though.
Attack them while back peddling. Even on jog they don't catch up to you back peddling. Back peddle... stop/swing when in range then back peddle. Work on the timing and youll get it down and be meleeing like a pro. Endurance / heavy armor / pain tolerance is a big plus for melee. I do melee builds frequently now.

 
Attack them while back peddling. Even on jog they don't catch up to you back peddling. Back peddle... stop/swing when in range then back peddle. Work on the timing and youll get it down and be meleeing like a pro. Endurance / heavy armor / pain tolerance is a big plus for melee. I do melee builds frequently now.
Yup. Even with 6-7 zombie dogs on you, a "Tanky" melee build can face roll them with the right equipment, perks and tactics. Facing a pack of zombie bears is when you need to fall back and nuke them from orbit! :)

 
This. The game I bought at A16 while sharing some characteristics as this one is pretty much not there. A17 has turned this title into a tower defense FPS game. While a lot of the exploring and going through dungeons are there to do, this game's 'kill zombies and get perks' system doesn't really give much incentive to explore the massive, POI filled maps. Of course this is purely my opinion and if this new 'game' is what TFP was originally going for then I'm okay with it. As long as myself and like minded players still have access to A16. I love the new POIs and the trees and a lot of the eye candy in this new game, but the new skill system is burnt beans.
You nailed it....it is a tower defense FPS game. That's how you'd have to play it right now. Its definitely not open world survival RPG anymore, which they broke ground with that concept and promised us so many things -- they changed what they set out to do. Maybe they should also change the front screen terminology from "survival horde crafting" to "tower defense MDK NoLootForYou" game.

 
The "food" value IS the max stamina value. Period. Food = Max Stamina. The decreasing black portion of the stamina bar IS your food level.
I know that, thanks. I hope we can mod it back to the old system, this one is not good, it's just confusing (it really sucks hard).

 
Observations so far

Hello Everyone!

Well, as some have been probably posted before here are my observations of A17 B240:

1.) Stealth is broken and needs adjustment. No matter what level I am and without any points in 'sneaking/stealth' I can sneak around at night and kill virtually every 'normal mob' with ease. Bloated walker and frozen lumberjack's are hard in that they have more HP. Sneak all the time and never get up! Then whack away. If you do get up, be prepared (probably intended) to get mobbed by all the zeds near you! I notice that the zed's - if ranged - will run towards you but then stop short and usually stand there. I would guess at least that part is intended since they shouldn't be able to %100 track you. I would also guess that I should at least have probably what 3 of 5 points in 'stealth' to do this?

2.) Drop rate for loot is still very small. In playing since the first Alpha 17 I've gotten maybe 20 yellow loot bags. Only last night did I get 2 consecutive yellow loot bags.

3.) Resource gathering is very, very low with stone tools. Maybe a character level boost?

4.) I do like the wandering hordes pathing, not 100% towards you and 'stop' near you if they can't find you. I don't like that they can despawn before you get all of them LOL

5.) Looting while low level is very dangerous as it should be, but it can be impossible... Should possibly be a bit easier especially with low level characters.

6.) Death penalty apparently has issues. Last night we were playing and I died - no death penalty - then after sometime (less than 30min?) I died again because the zeds and vultures where still there and got the death penalty!

7.) Vultures in the desert and burnt forrest are broken. There can be a constant stream of them. During our first run I encountered at least 30 in an almost constant and endless stream. Could be that since in the map the desert and burnt forrest were 'sprinkled' together? The dogs weren't that bad, and are probably 'good' but I think they only appear in the burnt forrest so can't quite use them as a measuring stick so to speak.

There are others but I can't think of them at the moment.

Happy Holidays to Everyone!

Additional:

Loot Bags disappear way too soon during horde night. Considering the stream of zeds that come you have to be very lucky to get to them; considering SP & this "Tower Defense." Personally I think they shouldn't disappear at all.

Molotov cocktails: Should have better control of where they blow up - if you throw near any 'blocks' they will blow up in your face! I should have no problem with dropping them through a one block hole to the hordes below me.

Zed Pathing:

Example - Died - spawned at 'base' which was far from where I was 'fighting.' Re spawned and the zeds where immediately where I spawned. Not cool! Then they apparently got stuck on some obstructions (Houses and/or rocks) trying to get to me. Know this is a very hard one - maybe 'distance' should be a factor in pathing? Also - they shouldn't immediately spawn at my location.

Zeds can be spawned into blocks

.
Additional2

Temperature needs adjustment: I'm penalized by being cold at about 60 degrees, and then by heat at about 80 degrees. Should be: Cold at about 32 degrees and hot at about 90 or more, just what I think. Albeit the 'growing' penalties for not adjusting seems a bit fine.

Zeds aren't affected much when encountering cars that blow up or gas barrels.

 
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Compared to the previous version, here are my thoughts:

1) Singleplayer, at least, feels much more threatening and scary than A16. Building takes much longer and experience gain is nowhere near as fast, meaning you don't "power up" as quickly. Which is a good thing...this is a horror game.

2) I don't like your maximum stamina being linked to your hunger, at least not linearly. Perhaps once you're hungry enough you start suffering a penalty to your maximum stamina, but being at 90% hunger should not leave you with 90% max stamina, it whittles down far too quickly.

3) I really don't like the maximum health cap decrease, or how easily it happens, or that the only ways to heal it require lucky drops, aloe (which requires you to have found, and explore, a desert), or high level Intelligence perks.

4) Wild plants having a 10% chance of food poisoning is extremely harsh. Especially since food poisoning decreases your maximum health...meaning that unless you get really lucky and can kill an animal for food pretty quickly, or find a cooking pot on your first day (and have jars to spare for boiling eggs or whatnot), you're likely going to lose maximum health just as an exchange for keeping your maximum stamina high. Wild edibles should be safe to consume raw.

5) As much as it maddens me, I do like that the yucca plants were nerfed. Desert survival was way too easy before, it was almost the perfect biome to spawn in because you had access to both unlimited food AND water, plus healing supplies.

6) Loot rate is a bit too low, and experience gain for killing zombies is proportionally too high. It feels like you HAVE to spend your time killing zombies to level up so you can unlock perks and get stronger, but there's no other reward. Conversely, if you spend your time doing anything else, you level up too slowly to be able to deal with the challenges. I realize this is probably at least partially intentional to force players to balance their activities between killing and other, but it's far too skewed towards killing, IMO. Part of what I liked about A16 is that builders could sit back and build, and level up proportionally as fast as players who were out on anti-zombie patrol or looting buildings.

7) Death penalty. It sucks. Death comes quickly in this game, it's unavoidable to some extent especially if you're playing SP and have nobody to watch your back, most especially due to glitches (I ran into a house last night to escape a zombie bear and the bear glitched into the basement and nommed me), so penalizing the player with a -1 stat debuff that consequently makes some of your hard-earned perks unavailable for a full half hour is extremely sadistic. Either reduce the debuff time, or make it require more deaths in a short time period to trigger.

8) Glitches. I respawn bleeding and go down to 63 health with 80 max heath. I respawn stunned. Mobs glitch through openings that they should not possibly fit through. Mobs float in the air and then jump towards you when they get stuck on terrain, making it impossible to predict their movements. I saved this for last, because it's an alpha, it's going to have glitches so this should all be expected. But combined with everything else on the list, they amplify the other issues.

Overall, though, I have to say that the game has a much grittier feel to it, and considering that appears to be what they're going for, it looks like a step in the right direction.

 
Best Game I Have!

I love playing survival games. The problem that I run into is replay value. Other games I like, such as Green Hell, gets a little boring after a while. A little monotonous. Mist Survival is the closest second, but still pretty limited on building and other mechanics. But, in my opinion, 7 Days has it all. I guess the only real thing there isn't (for SP) are human enemies. Maybe something to look at in the future?

In full disclosure, I didn't start playing 7 Days until just before A16 released, so I can't really comment on changes to the degree others are. I would say that as far as graphics, A17 is amazing! I like the game play as well. The mechanics are smooth and easy. I think maybe for those who want a more challenging leveling system, as some have said they don't like that everything is just handed to us, possibly a game mode selection where you can choose that. Aside from the scavenger/adventurer/etc., have another game mode tier where you can have normal mode (as it is) and then "survivor mode" where you have to scavenge for recipes and such. That may be very difficult to pull off, but just a suggestion.

I played a couple of the mods and I think it might be a good idea for TFP to look at that as well. The farming, husbandry and usable items (sinks, stoves, etc.) were really cool. Something to consider.

All in all, I love this game, and I like A17 way more than A16. I like the improvements. I really love the graphics and sound tracks that were changed. TFP are going in the right direction. You're not going to please everyone. I have 14 good survival games, but this one is still by far my favorite. Survive the Nights is slow coming, but keep an eye on them, they may soon be giving you a run for your money.

My one big complaint, are the digging zombies. No more underground lairs. Not a fan.

Keep up the good work!

 
Compared to the previous version, here are my thoughts:
1) Singleplayer, at least, feels much more threatening and scary than A16. Building takes much longer and experience gain is nowhere near as fast, meaning you don't "power up" as quickly. Which is a good thing...this is a horror game.

2) I don't like your maximum stamina being linked to your hunger, at least not linearly. Perhaps once you're hungry enough you start suffering a penalty to your maximum stamina, but being at 90% hunger should not leave you with 90% max stamina, it whittles down far too quickly.

3) I really don't like the maximum health cap decrease, or how easily it happens, or that the only ways to heal it require lucky drops, aloe (which requires you to have found, and explore, a desert), or high level Intelligence perks.

4) Wild plants having a 10% chance of food poisoning is extremely harsh. Especially since food poisoning decreases your maximum health...meaning that unless you get really lucky and can kill an animal for food pretty quickly, or find a cooking pot on your first day (and have jars to spare for boiling eggs or whatnot), you're likely going to lose maximum health just as an exchange for keeping your maximum stamina high. Wild edibles should be safe to consume raw.

5) As much as it maddens me, I do like that the yucca plants were nerfed. Desert survival was way too easy before, it was almost the perfect biome to spawn in because you had access to both unlimited food AND water, plus healing supplies.

6) Loot rate is a bit too low, and experience gain for killing zombies is proportionally too high. It feels like you HAVE to spend your time killing zombies to level up so you can unlock perks and get stronger, but there's no other reward. Conversely, if you spend your time doing anything else, you level up too slowly to be able to deal with the challenges. I realize this is probably at least partially intentional to force players to balance their activities between killing and other, but it's far too skewed towards killing, IMO. Part of what I liked about A16 is that builders could sit back and build, and level up proportionally as fast as players who were out on anti-zombie patrol or looting buildings.

7) Death penalty. It sucks. Death comes quickly in this game, it's unavoidable to some extent especially if you're playing SP and have nobody to watch your back, most especially due to glitches (I ran into a house last night to escape a zombie bear and the bear glitched into the basement and nommed me), so penalizing the player with a -1 stat debuff that consequently makes some of your hard-earned perks unavailable for a full half hour is extremely sadistic. Either reduce the debuff time, or make it require more deaths in a short time period to trigger.

8) Glitches. I respawn bleeding and go down to 63 health with 80 max heath. I respawn stunned. Mobs glitch through openings that they should not possibly fit through. Mobs float in the air and then jump towards you when they get stuck on terrain, making it impossible to predict their movements. I saved this for last, because it's an alpha, it's going to have glitches so this should all be expected. But combined with everything else on the list, they amplify the other issues.

Overall, though, I have to say that the game has a much grittier feel to it, and considering that appears to be what they're going for, it looks like a step in the right direction.
I agree with your assessment of the game being more threatening and scary. It feels like a horror game now, and a bit harder. I am actually nervous now when a horde approaches, whereas before, I just kind of ran around them. Not to mention the jump scare zombies in closets and ceilings. Great addition!

 
Well at the very least, here you can talk to the devs. Unlike Bethesda, AE, Blizzard, Ad nauseam.

That we actually get any insight into what maybe coming is 1000x than you get from a *** of a mess like Fallout 76.

I'm comparing apples to oranges with 76 and 7dtd, as far as game development studios go. However, you go talk to Bethesda and see what you get out of them. Here you can talk to the creators.

Yes yes, its all nice and fine to be maddy face about your personal grievances with regards to the game play and how it has changed and how it isn't like alpha xyz.

TFP is actually reading what YOU say, not ONLY professional game review sites. Keep that in mind when you are trying to make a valid point (aka reasonable argument). You won't find AAA studios that will care about what you say.

Being hostile with people that will actually listen does you 0 benefit. Either way enjoy forums :D

 
Well at the very least, here you can talk to the devs. Unlike Bethesda, AE, Blizzard, Ad nauseam.
That we actually get any insight into what maybe coming is 1000x than you get from a *** of a mess like Fallout 76.

I'm comparing apples to oranges with 76 and 7dtd, as far as game development studios go. However, you go talk to Bethesda and see what you get out of them. Here you can talk to the creators.

Yes yes, its all nice and fine to be maddy face about your personal grievances with regards to the game play and how it has changed and how it isn't like alpha xyz.

TFP is actually reading what YOU say, not ONLY professional game review sites. Keep that in mind when you are trying to make a valid point (aka reasonable argument). You won't find AAA studios that will care about what you say.

Being hostile with people that will actually listen does you 0 benefit. Either way enjoy forums :D
AMEN!!

 
Death penalty apparently has issues. Last night we were playing and I died - no death penalty - then after sometime (less than 30min?) I died again because the zeds and vultures where still there and got the death penalty!
I may be able to help with that one. Was the first death pre level 5? The penalty does not apply before then as intended.

 
So I just came back from a break after A14 to A16 and have played some A17 now. Overall I love the direction it's headed but I do feel it needs some tweaks which is understandable given the sheer amount of changes to the game and no real patches yet. Here are my opinions on A17 for what I have experienced so far for what it's worth.

Pros:

-The new graphics look amazing and make it feel like a new game.

-The new stealth systems are a great idea.

-I love a lot of the new content such as the bicycles, jeeps, and buildings.

Cons:

-No more dismemberment? Whaaaa?

-I liked the class starter idea of Valmod, we all did something before the world went to hell. Martial artist = Great cardio and hand to hand combat. Ninja = Stealth and a Katana. School teacher = Patience and intelligent, they can out wait and out smart any Zombie. Retail clerk = Anger issues and does more damage. Mechanic = Great with a wrench and has the uncanny ability to take apart anything you see and can almost put it back together and with very few spare parts...you see where I am going with this? lol

-New zombie loots bags not staying during the 7th day horde is something I don't like, in reality the stuff wouldn't just magically disappear.

-The Bicycle plows through boulders and destroys them but the motorcycle doesn't.

-I miss the Valmod A16 HUD design and feel that your temp and food/water levels should be listed on the hud, I know some people want it minimal so perhaps an option in the settings where we can adjust it or turn it on/off.

-The audio system/distancing. It sounds all too often like there is a zombie right on top of me and I look around and there is nothing remotely close in any direction, my incoming dog panic mode kicks in.

On the fence:

-I like the recoverable arrows but noticed if the corpse rolls over you usually can't get them all back (unsure if this is by design to simulate broken arrows) also would like corpses to stay just a little longer.

-The new precision hit boxes take a minute to get used to but really make you aim, this is great with firearms save for shotguns maybe (Have not tried them yet) but I feel melee weapons such as a large club shouldn't be able to miss the entire body so easily.

-The new perk system is okay but I feel it limits you a little too much in some ways, for example you can't boil items early on such as corn cobs or meat. You place the food in water and boil...How do I not know this you ask yourself. Also I preferred the stamina to go up as you used it as in A16 which is realistic.

-The new health system was a little confusing as I am eating food and water and am at 98-99 percent on those and not healing despite having the first level of healing perk. Also you have to eat a lot of food just to get back up from 50 percent early on until you get the perk. I had to eat like 6 cans of food and was still at like 75 percentish, that's a bit much.

-In the middle on this one. The new zombie AI may make them a little too smart, If I were to ground myself in reality Zombies would be fairly dumb just trying to get to food. Special zombies could excel at various areas making you work hard on multiple aspects of your base for example spider zombies could climb easily, rushers are fast, Big zombies do more block damage, Some explode doing area damage, basically A16 mixed with what we have now I guess.

Ideas just for fun: Joel you know you want to...lol

-True story, I took my GF to a game of zombie laser tag that just opened up in Orlando and when we were leaving there was a huge protest in the streets. It was the McDonal's employee's protesting for a lot more money and as I saw the news helicopter overhead I thought to myself this is the perfect opportunity to promote your business. You have guys in full zombie makeup shuffling after the McDonal's protesters carrying signs that demand a 2 hr lunch break or brains in the green room...this brings me to my next suggestion.

-As I was deforesting my area to build my first base I thought, it would be hilarious if we had zombie protestors in the area...Undead tree hugger has a nice ring to it, Also not sure if they have been in here in a while but the Zombie clowns were fun...Killer clowns from Navezgane!

 
I saw a post about someone not liking the New layering of the biomes. I actually very much liked it, just because it seems to make since. Hot is more south, Cold is North of equator. There isn't normally a desert connected to anywhere that snows in my knowledge. (Always drives me nuts lol). I noticed that the gen seems to be back to the way it was. Maybe I'm one of the few that likes layered biomes? Although, I will say I didn't like how the burnt biome was scattered. It'd be better to just have one or very few strips/irregular circles of burnt forest.

Hope everyone had a great Holiday :)

 
A few points from me

+ RWG is so much better, just needs to undo the levitating building spell. So many new POI's to explore. It is good to not know what is around the corner again.

+ Made me get into melee quite a bit more, always a ranged fighter before. Just have to whack them more these days, and not get hit. It is fun.

+ The Z's are smarter, and there is less crap like running around in circles or endlessly jumping onto the same block.

- Not sure about the latest build, but the biomes seems messed up - snow in the far north, desert in the south, and fairly endless forest in between. They need to be more random, perhaps a little larger.

- Fired up a new game a few days ago and for the first time my frame rates were horrible (<20, hell probably <10). Need to check that it hasn't turned on some god-ray effects or something that are causing it, but my rig has been fine playing this game with decent frames up until now. Not sure about this, but it didn't make me want to play the game for long. Might have been the POI I was near/in, but it wasn't especially large and I'd cleared it - so again, not sure.

- Sometimes the spawning of the Z's seems a little too predictable, both outside and indoors. I know there are huge number of possible spawn points, and work has been put into this, but it still feels like and issue. Not a fan of the Z's falling from floor above much either. That might have been fixed now too, not sure.

Overall it is still not quite a polished to play as A16, but I can now see where they are going with it, and pretty soon it will be. Then it will keep getting better and surpass A16. Yes, I believe it will.

 
I really like most of the changes in the current version of A17.

I have some suggestions though:

1) XP: Re-increase the XP from non-killing activities.

XP is the main reward and chart of your progress in the game. At the moment you can only get significant XP from killing zombies, which devalues other aspects of the game. This conflicts with the current attribute system, which encourages specialisation. People want to play as various different types of character, but the game gives much higher rewards to character types that specialise in killing zombies. If you want RPG elements to a game you have to balance rewards for different playstyles, or everyone ends up playing the same character. This is particularly an issue in multiplayer, where the whole point of working as a team is to allow players to specialise. At the moment, that is not practical as you end up with a huge level disparity.

You can still prioritise combat rewards if you like, and make XP rewards there greater, but the current balance needs shifting.

2) Re-balance base defence

There are a number of issues here.

At the moment base design is quite a specialist activity. You have to really understand game mechanics in detail before you can design even a partially effective base. This seems to have created a polarised situation, where bases are either quickly destroyed, or virtually impervious to damage. This has made the game both too easy for experienced players, and too hard for those less experienced.

Not everything should be realistic in a game. The whole point of games is that they aren't realistic, they are simplified so we can enjoy the experience better. But for the parts that do try and reproduce aspects of real life, it helps if they accurately reflect real life. This ensures the learning curve isn't too steep right at the start of the game, which is likely to put quite a few people off. We can debate the positive side of steep learning curves but ultimately having the core mechanics realistic makes the game more accessible, both to new players and to casual players.

This has also reduced the variety in the game, which reduces enjoyment through replayability. If you make a greater variety of base designs viable again, and then balance the game without removing that flexibility, you give people many more opportunities for enjoyment.

Base defence is a continuum rather than having discrete patterns, and I guess ideally you want to encourage players gradually to use a combination of these, but ideally you want elements of all these types of defence to be useful:

a) Passive defences (defences that defeat zombies slowly through attrition)(e.g. spikes)

b) Active defences (defences that defeat zombies with action)(i.e. players in combat)

c) Cunning defences (defences that rely on understanding zombies)(i.e. traps and mazes)

d) Brute force defences (defences that rely on sheer power)(i.e. turrets and walls)

If possible also:

a) Melee combat

b) Ranged combat

All these elements are clearly already in the game. However some of them feel like red herrings because they are so ineffective right now, which frustrates players who feel like they have wasted their time exploring them. I think there are several elements that need to be combined to re-balance this.

i) Reduce zombie block damage. It should be possible for players of all levels to build hardpoints (of materials they can craft in reasonable amounts) that can resist direct zombie attack for a substantial period of time. In previous game versions players gained access to durable materials faster than zombies increased in strength, which led to zombies being delayed too easily, but it has swung too far the other direction now, with materials being delayed longer and zombies seeming to damage blocks faster.

ii) (Re?)Introduce variety into the AI. It's is ridiculous to see zombies lining up in a single line. Ideally, different zombies would behave differently. Some would go for a weak spot, some would go for a direct approach. As the game progresses zombies would try gradually more and more varied means of attack, starting from only the most basic frontal assault and building up to coming from all angles. Without the other changes this would make the zombies truly OP, but done right this would encourage combined and multi-layered base tactics, as there would be no one-size-fits-all approach.

iii) Improve the effectiveness of spikes and turrets to make them effective again. They should pose a substantial danger to zombies when used in the right way. For example, spikes should cause a lot of damage when falling onto them, but virtually none when just moving past them. Barbed wire would be the reverse of that, causing less damage from falling onto it, but more when trying to move through the area. Turrets would be less effective against mobile opponents, but very effective against stationary or restricted ones.

3) Reduce the stamina drain from all activities except combat and sprinting, and reduce stamina regeneration accordingly. At the moment resting to recover stamina is wasted time, because it is too short a period to be able to do anything useful in it, and happens so often as to be a substantial impact on gameplay.

Max Stamina should also degrade more slowly. I think this is an issue caused by 'eating' affecting both food level and stamina, but with food level also affecting stamina. At the moment it feels like being on full stamina is an unobtainable goal, because it takes time for your max stamina to return once you eat something, but your food level will have dropped again by the time your stamina gets near the top limiting your stamina once again. I suggest max stamina shouldn't start degrading at all until food is below 50%, to avoid having to eat when not hungry.

4) Reduce the temperature sensitivity for players, or increase the comfortable temperature range. It's just a bit too hard to avoid the effects of heat and cold at the moment. It feels like we're only using the extreme ends of the scale.

5) Get rid of encumbrance. Having an extra thing to worry about isn't always better in a survival game. We should be concentrating on the interesting or challenging things, and this is neither. I fail to see what is so OP about being able to carry 20 different things in my backpack. The only effect seems to be to make the tedious parts of the game even more tedious. It has introduced 'walking very slowly through the countryside' as a substantial gameplay element, and that is not an improvement. We already have enough of that because we run out of stamina. I don't care whether it is realistic or not. It doesn't add anything. Its only outcome is to slow the game down. It is unnecessary and detracts from the more interesting aspects of gameplay.

6) Give melee weapons a larger area of effect for the purpose of determining hits, ideally simulating their swing arc. Seems a bit odd that a sledgehammer takes 2 seconds to swing, but apparently doesn't actually swing through any of the space adjacent to where you're aiming. I don't want heads to be any easier to hit because it's nice to have that challenge, but it just ruins the melee experience when a zombie creates a small gap in its body shape precisely where your cursor is and thereby negates your attack completely.

7) Don't pay too much attention to experienced players who claim the game is too easy. This is more a suggestion for approach to feedback than a specific change to the game itself. Games SHOULD be easy to play once a player is experienced. A game that never gets easier gets frustrating instead.

The danger with early access games is that because it is playable for a long time, you will get feedback from people who enjoyed the game as it was but who now want something different (developers are not immune to this either, if they are playing their own game). They will tend to suggest changes that are 'different' rather than 'better', because from their perspective different is indeed better. There will almost always therefore be a conflict between the types feedback you receive, between those people, and the newer or more casual players who are still trying to play the game the first time. It is difficult to balance those two source of feedback.

Regarding negative feedback, I think both players and devs should be aware when they get into it, that they are taking a risk with early access games. Players should be aware that early access games can change, and devs should be aware that they have the potential to annoy and maybe alienate gamers by presenting an unfinished product.

I do think though that the responsibility for the player-dev relationship lies primarily with the devs. They initiate everything by releasing the game, and they have the control, ultimately, to decide what happens with it. Changing the game significantly after people have started playing it effectively makes it a new game. They are discontinuing the old game and replacing it with a new game. That's fine for players who think it's just a straight upgrade in every way, or who have got bored with the old game and want a change. But we all have to understand that for people who preferred (or are still enjoying) the older version, the net result is that the devs are stopping them playing a game they enjoy. Even if players can roll back to a previous version, at best the devs have cancelled any future support for their buggy game. Of course players will feel frustrated by this. It's only natural. But that doesn't mean you should ignore it, on the contrary you should listen to it closely. It's the most honest feedback you're likely to get! So devs, take the criticism on the chin and use it to improve the game. That's the whole point of this, right? :)

 
I'm not surprised 40% of this pole has come in with uncertainty at best. When you move a game so far one way your going to upset a few heads. sadly there is no win either way they go now unless they move the game to more of the middle so mods can fix what they have broken and allow for mods to move it they way people like it now.

Atm for me I cant see it being enough to make me want to play it or suggest it to others to play. You can't really expect people to be happy when you completely make a new game or sequel and remove the playstyle people expected as a base to still be happy!

 
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