EvilPolygons
Survivor
I mean, if you need to be led around by the nose and told what to play, what to like, what to wear, what to think, then sure. Yay groupthink.
PC How do I put this?...Rollback please?!?!?! FUN PIMPS! Whyyyyyy?!?!?!
- Thread starter P0yzin
- Start date
I mean, if you need to be led around by the nose and told what to play, what to like, what to wear, what to think, then sure. Yay groupthink.
I am interested in the return of the survival aspect of the game. But, this thing of games being developed by youtuber and influencers is a bad idea and people will realize it sooner rather than later.
Kalen
Survivor
Ah, if that's what you think its about, no wonder you're not a fan. I watch youtubers play games for 2 main reasons. First, to see if a game is something I might like.... second, because I actually enjoy seeing how someone might play a game that I play. Do they do the same things that I do? Do they do things I hadn't thought of?
Why is there no alternative to all videos are bad? Why can't I just watch a video from someone and agree or disagree with the content. No where in the video did they state what you should think or say what you should do.
People reposting it are doing it on their own accord because they agree with the content.
In my case I disagree with some of what he said but I agree with some of it as well which is why I broke down the video in my post. To me the source isn't as important as the content and whether it resonates with me.
EvilPolygons
Survivor
I didn't say all videos are bad. My post was specifically about "influencers," their followers, and (sub-textually, I guess) how gross it is that people are so keen to follow these people like groupies or something.
Cults of personality and populism seem to be the new zeitgeist. It's just incredibly gross.
Riamus
Hunter
I'll say that the whole influencer thing that's going around these days is really dumb, imo. Where should I eat? Let's watch a foodie video. What should I wear? Let's watch a fashion influencer. What should I play? Let's watch a game influencer. People can't seem to make up their own minds these days and need someone else to tell them what to think. And they often don't even realize that their opinions aren't even their own anymore and they are just parroting what they watch.
That being said, I don't have any problem with non-influencer videos and streams. If I want to see how a game plays to see if it'll be something I would like, watching someone play it rather than just looking at promotional videos is a good way to figure that out. I'm not going to watch someone's review of the game, but I'll watch someone play the game. Or if someone is streaming how-to stuff about a game or giving information about a game or whatever, then I might watch. I even have my own set of YouTube tutorial videos for Teragon. They are just tutorials and aren't there to tell people they should use it.
Things like that I think are fine. But I think influencers are pretty bad. And I especially hate how a lot of influencers get this conceit about what they do. I worked in a restaurant and had some foodie influencers say that because of what they do, they should be listened to in whatever it was they were trying to get me to agree to. It was stupid. "I'll tell my followers" as if I cared. I just said okay. Nothing happened, as expected.
That being said, I don't have any problem with non-influencer videos and streams. If I want to see how a game plays to see if it'll be something I would like, watching someone play it rather than just looking at promotional videos is a good way to figure that out. I'm not going to watch someone's review of the game, but I'll watch someone play the game. Or if someone is streaming how-to stuff about a game or giving information about a game or whatever, then I might watch. I even have my own set of YouTube tutorial videos for Teragon. They are just tutorials and aren't there to tell people they should use it.
Things like that I think are fine. But I think influencers are pretty bad. And I especially hate how a lot of influencers get this conceit about what they do. I worked in a restaurant and had some foodie influencers say that because of what they do, they should be listened to in whatever it was they were trying to get me to agree to. It was stupid. "I'll tell my followers" as if I cared. I just said okay. Nothing happened, as expected.
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t3hp0larbear
Refugee
Figure I should post my unasked-for opinion in here vice starting a new thread.
This game is not version 2.1. It is Alpha 27. At least, that's what it feels like.
The core gameplay loop of exploring, looting, and gathering resources to build your base and defenses for the recurring hordes is solid. It's why I keep coming back to the game with my friends. As much as I enjoy the nomadic looter gameplay style and have spent plenty a horde night kiting these undead ■■■■■■■s up and down a highway to great result, I still recognize that the game skews heavily towards encouraging that playstyle. I've got friends that like to build and shoot zombies, and the magazine-based skill progression system feels like it punishes them for not engaging with the entire game at all times unless they have friends join them to be their loot gremlins.
I'm also of the opinion that the biome badge system is quite frankly dog■■■■, and an awful stand-in for the old clothing and armor system soft-gating more dangerous biomes. I kept an open mind and gave it a fair shake. I hate it. The only survival elements left in this game are managing food, water, and infection levels. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of suspension of disbelief to be had in this game (the question of jars and cans in the eyes of older players, for one), but the execution just makes me scratch my head - just because I proved to a random trader somehow that I did an arbitrary number of things in a burnt forest/wasteland/desert, I'm suddenly immune to smoke inhalation/radiation/the god■■■■ed sun??? Why not reintroduce clothing, armor, or armor mods that mitigate extreme temperatures, as well as options for radiation resistance and breathing? Hell, you could even give the desert a double-whammy of extreme highs and lows while also having players without breathing aids choke on sandstorms? This idea feels incredibly half-baked and something I would have expected in an earlier alpha, not 2.0.
On that note, the weather system also needs to be worked on because it's apparently the same thing that's been in the game since at least alpha 15. It was charming and understandable then, but at version 2.1 it feels unpolished and actually detrimental. We need to be able to see weather conditions rather than having them tied to the biome borders. Barreling into a storm all of a sudden when the weather was clear with near infinite visibility just a second ago doesn't feel good. There should be a way to tell there's a storm in the next zone besides standing at the biome border and dipping your toes in repeatedly.
Why not merge some of the old and new? Bring back learn-by-doing, but let magazines be free skill experience for that skill. Bring back clothing and more meaningful body temperature mechanics but work in piece-specific perks and maybe some sort of set bonus system. Give us options to toggle these aspects on and off. This used to be a survival game. Now it's just "We Have Fallout 4 Survival Mode At Home."
This game is not version 2.1. It is Alpha 27. At least, that's what it feels like.
The core gameplay loop of exploring, looting, and gathering resources to build your base and defenses for the recurring hordes is solid. It's why I keep coming back to the game with my friends. As much as I enjoy the nomadic looter gameplay style and have spent plenty a horde night kiting these undead ■■■■■■■s up and down a highway to great result, I still recognize that the game skews heavily towards encouraging that playstyle. I've got friends that like to build and shoot zombies, and the magazine-based skill progression system feels like it punishes them for not engaging with the entire game at all times unless they have friends join them to be their loot gremlins.
I'm also of the opinion that the biome badge system is quite frankly dog■■■■, and an awful stand-in for the old clothing and armor system soft-gating more dangerous biomes. I kept an open mind and gave it a fair shake. I hate it. The only survival elements left in this game are managing food, water, and infection levels. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of suspension of disbelief to be had in this game (the question of jars and cans in the eyes of older players, for one), but the execution just makes me scratch my head - just because I proved to a random trader somehow that I did an arbitrary number of things in a burnt forest/wasteland/desert, I'm suddenly immune to smoke inhalation/radiation/the god■■■■ed sun??? Why not reintroduce clothing, armor, or armor mods that mitigate extreme temperatures, as well as options for radiation resistance and breathing? Hell, you could even give the desert a double-whammy of extreme highs and lows while also having players without breathing aids choke on sandstorms? This idea feels incredibly half-baked and something I would have expected in an earlier alpha, not 2.0.
On that note, the weather system also needs to be worked on because it's apparently the same thing that's been in the game since at least alpha 15. It was charming and understandable then, but at version 2.1 it feels unpolished and actually detrimental. We need to be able to see weather conditions rather than having them tied to the biome borders. Barreling into a storm all of a sudden when the weather was clear with near infinite visibility just a second ago doesn't feel good. There should be a way to tell there's a storm in the next zone besides standing at the biome border and dipping your toes in repeatedly.
Why not merge some of the old and new? Bring back learn-by-doing, but let magazines be free skill experience for that skill. Bring back clothing and more meaningful body temperature mechanics but work in piece-specific perks and maybe some sort of set bonus system. Give us options to toggle these aspects on and off. This used to be a survival game. Now it's just "We Have Fallout 4 Survival Mode At Home."
Riamus
Hunter
Technically, it's A23 right now. And, yes, it is still alpha. The idea that it isn't is just a misconception caused by the new version numbers. It will remain alpha until 4.0.
There are options for people who don't choose to play the entire game. If they don't want to loot, they can just give themselves the dev magazines/books that unlocks all magazines, books, or schematics. With a mod, those can even appear in your inventory when starting a new game... if on PC. They are going to make the game for how most people play. For those who play only part of the game, they have to understand that doing so comes with issues and they'll need to do something to overcome those issues or just accept the issues. That's just how it is and will always be as they continue to add things that focus on how most people play the game.
They are going to be discussing what they are doing to improve storms and biome hazards on Friday. Those should be improved, though whether the improvements are enough for you or anyone else depends on what those improvements are and what each player considers good. They said they were already working on ways to know there is a storm in another biome when storms were first introduced. It just takes time.
They will not bring back LBD. They've made that very clear.
pApA^LeGBa
Hunter
Now that stream sounds promising. Not for europeans though. That´s 4am here.
@P0yzin Go and check out 7 days youtubers that played other games. Those videos all tanked in views compared to 7 days. Neebs Gaming and Glock 9 are probably the only ones that could keep on going as usual if the game suddenly dies. (Only watfching Neebs myself, didn´t take a look a G9 recently, but i know he had series of other games doing quite good)
If jawoodle, who only play 7 days, would start a series about another game, he would maybe get half the views. First episode might do good, but then the views would go down rapidly. Pretty much all the 7 days channels tried and all kinda failed besides Glock9.
@P0yzin Go and check out 7 days youtubers that played other games. Those videos all tanked in views compared to 7 days. Neebs Gaming and Glock 9 are probably the only ones that could keep on going as usual if the game suddenly dies. (Only watfching Neebs myself, didn´t take a look a G9 recently, but i know he had series of other games doing quite good)
If jawoodle, who only play 7 days, would start a series about another game, he would maybe get half the views. First episode might do good, but then the views would go down rapidly. Pretty much all the 7 days channels tried and all kinda failed besides Glock9.
MaxTunnerX
Refugee
Rollback is not neccessary, just make the next version good again just like the old ones were. I bought this game many years ago and I dont regret my purchase, seeing as I can still play that game and not this mess, but I wouldnt buy this game today and its steam not recommended from me until things get fixed.
InfiniteWarrior
Scavenger
Hybrid systems might heal the rift in the community that apparently opened up around A16, but I doubt it's feasible without a complete overhaul of the game at this point and that's not likely to happen.
I agree 2.0 feels exceptionally rushed. It almost seems like TFP just lost patience with most everyone demanding the game be designed to their specifications; go through it's final polish and optimization phase; and go gold already after over a decade in development.
The temptation would be just to tick off those Kickstarter pledges as fast as possible and be done with it, sacrificing gameplay in favor of MMO-style challenge windows, checklists and HUD messages. More likely, though, the release of the updated console edition and, perhaps, a desire to move on to develop other games introduced business pressures of which we have no knowledge to get it completed, e.g. make a roadmap and stick to it religiously, when TFP is more accustomed to doing things a very different, more relaxed and informal kind of way.
eXSe
Refugee
This is what I would like to see. The argument "people were spam crafting..." is BS because people are now spam reading by targeting specific POI's for books while using points to boost % for books they need. Wow, a significant improvement and change. BTW, the sort of people that were actually spam crafting stuff, or did whatever to boost their whatever, will do the exact same thing now, but through different means.
Before buying the game it's still okay, but why watch it after. You have the game - play it and you'll understand whether you like it or not. And you can return the game to Steam if you've played less than 10 hours. In general, it's very strange to focus on other people's tastes - they're all different.
What's the point? It's better to spend this time on your own game.
There are short videos of 1-3 minutes that talk about a specific aspect of the game or explain some mechanics. This is enough to learn something new that you have not used before. But copying someone else's style of play is an incomprehensible activity for me.
JaxTeller718
Survivor
I agree 100 percent but the part that amuses me as a long time player was watching these devs ridicule us for complaining about them shortening the progression and time we spend in a game by removing parts, LBD, empty loot containers, Quality level 600, to now watching them try to tell you to sit in a house half a day and do nothing to artificially draw the game out.
I once respected these devs now I find most of their decisions confusing. There is no cohesiveness between all the mechanics in this game, its like 4 different games sloppily cut pasted on top of each other.
Kalen
Survivor
Who said I focus on other people's tastes? I watch to see how a game plays to determine if I'd like it. Once I decide I'm going to buy it, I stop watching videos on that game to avoid spoilers (for games where spoilers would matter)
The point is I enjoy it.... not sure what else to say about it. I enjoy seeing how people play a game that I enjoy.
I never said I copy someone else's style of play.... I may take aspects of things that I see and incorporate it into my play or I may not.
pApA^LeGBa
Hunter
Spam reading is not even close to spam crafting, it´s way slower. And you need at least to go out to get the magazines. Back when we had learning by doing, people on servers were running around the camp fire the whole night while crafting stone axes. Others went afk and were in the forge while crafting arrowheads. It wasn´t a well done learning by doing system. I don´t want that back. It was crap as it was a placeholder, a bought asset quickly slapped together. If we get it back it needs to be done properly.
I am not a fan of magazines btw.
InfiniteWarrior
Scavenger
They've fumbled the ball trying to make it appeal to more players, imo, when they might simply have completed a smaller scope survival game and moved on to another, more ambitious one.
Games with survival modes tacked on began their lives shallow, mechanically speaking, adding survival modes late in development or, even, after release that were planned for all along while this one has been developed opposite of that: starting out mechanically dense and winding up mechanically shallow.
Were they to package the survival elements they've removed along with new survival element development (biome and storm effects+ways to offset) into a "survival mode," it might feel more cohesive, but would require a cohesive vision first that doesn't require players to turn off features they'd like to use just to turn on and off survival effects and ways to offset them piecemeal.
No idea if there's still time for that.
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theFlu
Hunter
Not speaking for anyone else, but, it seems I like watching people play the game more than I enjoy playing it myself. At least judged by the time spent. In part it's a "friendly" experience, and in part the edit can skip the crap that annoys both of us...
Also the "requirements", playing requires focus and lengthy time slots, vids can be on "second screen" and paused at will.
Kalen
Survivor
I like watching people play when I'm at work and can't actually play myself. Sometimes I'll have it on in the background when I am playing myself.Not speaking for anyone else, but, it seems I like watching people play the game more than I enjoy playing it myself. At least judged by the time spent. In part it's a "friendly" experience, and in part the edit can skip the crap that annoys both of us...