PC How do I put this?...Rollback please?!?!?! FUN PIMPS! Whyyyyyy?!?!?!

Kalen said:
Well, I hate to keep living in the past, but since I've already started going down the rabbit hole.... To me this is also a consequence of the removal of item degradation. For those unaware, it used to be that every time you repaired an item, its quality declined. Now there was a time when item quality was a range between 1 and 600 instead of 1 to 6, so you had a lot of room to work with. But the fact that items did not last forever meant that both crafting and looting were valuable. You would craft replacement items, but you could save resources if you lucked out and looted something.... or you could even loot something superior to what you could craft.

For me, this was one of the most disappointing changes they've ever made. It seems small, but item degradation made crafting and looting always vital to the game. Now, once you have a top tier item you never need worry about it again.
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If I'm remembering correctly, you also couldn't repair items that you couldn't craft. I spent about 1k hours on A16, and I think I found the sniper rifle recipe a grand total of 3 times. So every time I found a sniper, I'd cherish it (and it's parts, since I could combine to repair/upgrade.)

I'd be okay with repairs degrading item quality if we had combining and 600 quality levels back. But needing to constantly replace my steel pickaxe would get pretty old for me (I usually have to repair it 3-4 times per mining trip.)
 
Vaeliorin said:
If I'm remembering correctly, you also couldn't repair items that you couldn't craft. I spent about 1k hours on A16, and I think I found the sniper rifle recipe a grand total of 3 times. So every time I found a sniper, I'd cherish it (and it's parts, since I could combine to repair/upgrade.)

I'd be okay with repairs degrading item quality if we had combining and 600 quality levels back. But needing to constantly replace my steel pickaxe would get pretty old for me (I usually have to repair it 3-4 times per mining trip.)
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I believe you are correct about not being able to repair items you couldn't craft.

I always thought it would make sense if quality degrading was tied to your crafting skill.... meaning the better your crafting skill, the lower the degradation. So a skilled crafter could keep an item usable for longer.

As far as constantly needing to replace items.... my counter argument would be, what else are you doing? Currently, once you have all top level items, looting (except for ammo) becomes virtually meaningless.
 
Kalen said:
As far as constantly needing to replace items.... my counter argument would be, what else are you doing? Currently, once you have all top level items, looting (except for ammo) becomes virtually meaningless.
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Honestly? I preferred it when I didn't have to spend so much time looting. Prior to magazines being a thing, I pretty much stopped looting entirely after Day 14 or so. Maybe 1-2 POIs a week after that, and I play on 2 hour days. I spent my time gathering and building, which is the part of the game that I enjoy.

If you got rid of the need for parts and legendary parts, I'd be more okay with needing to replace my tools, because at least then I wouldn't have to spend a bunch of time looking for more parts.
 
meganoth said:
Are people who ask the latter just befuddled about the issues and really mean the former? Or do they just repeat what some youtube guy said because it sounds funny? I don't know.
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Well some of those "Youtube" guys have been keeping this game going and I think they are getting tired themselves.
 
Vaeliorin said:
Honestly? I preferred it when I didn't have to spend so much time looting. Prior to magazines being a thing, I pretty much stopped looting entirely after Day 14 or so. Maybe 1-2 POIs a week after that, and I play on 2 hour days. I spent my time gathering and building, which is the part of the game that I enjoy.

If you got rid of the need for parts and legendary parts, I'd be more okay with needing to replace my tools, because at least then I wouldn't have to spend a bunch of time looking for more parts.
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Zilox's method isn't super aggressive or over the top. Whenever you make a repair, there's a random chance that the item will drop one quality level. So it takes a long time for a QL 6 item to wear down to a QL 3 or 4 (at which point most players would replace it).

I find that by the time I'm ready to throw something away, I've probably found a replacement or the parts to make a replacement. Which is perfect, because that rate of "churn" ensures that looting (or questing) always stays relevant.
 
Spotnik said:
Well some of those "Youtube" guys have been keeping this game going and I think they are getting tired themselves.
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I am not part of TFP, I don't need to pamper those VIPs with compliments. Sadly they are opinion makers for a lot of their flock and also the more they rant the more entertaining they are. It follows that the worst youtubers are often the most successful.

Sure, I am not doing justice to the many sensible ones that also exist. But they are just one player each and have the "voting power" of many creating their own echo chamber. Not very democratic or fair in my view.

To get back to your point, absent of youtubers (i.e. in the pre-youtube years) normal word-of-mouth would have made this game going as well. The youtubers profit from 7D as much as 7D profits from them.

Also some of the youtubers surely have been with the game since early alpha and were a fan of the very different incomplete game that 7D2D was before all features and balancing were in. It isn't surprising that some of them feel left behind just like some normal players do.
 
Spotnik said:
Well some of those "Youtube" guys have been keeping this game going and I think they are getting tired themselves.
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And a lot of them butcher the game to keep their series short enough to not loose the attention of the viewers. Youtubers primarily care about views. The numbers of views go down the longer a series lasts. They want the game to be tailored to their needs, which obviously isn´t a good idea as they don´t give a F if that benefits the game and/or normal players or not.
 
meganoth said:
I am not part of TFP, I don't need to pamper those VIPs with compliments. Sadly they are opinion makers for a lot of their flock and also the more they rant the more entertaining they are. It follows that the worst youtubers are often the most successful.

Sure, I am not doing justice to the many sensible ones that also exist. But they are just one player each and have the "voting power" of many creating their own echo chamber. Not very democratic or fair in my view.

To get back to your point, absent of youtubers (i.e. in the pre-youtube years) normal word-of-mouth would have made this game going as well. The youtubers profit from 7D as much as 7D profits from them.

Also some of the youtubers surely have been with the game since early alpha and were a fan of the very different incomplete game that 7D2D was before all features and balancing were in. It isn't surprising that some of them feel left behind just like some normal players do.
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pApA^LeGBa said:
And a lot of them butcher the game to keep their series short enough to not loose the attention of the viewers. Youtubers primarily care about views. The numbers of views go down the longer a series lasts. They want the game to be tailored to their needs, which obviously isn´t a good idea as they don´t give a F if that benefits the game and/or normal players or not.
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A lot of baseless assumptions IMO. From what I have seen many YouTubers care about the health of the game. YouTubers play for views but they also generally want to have fun in the game and want the game to be good. It's why they play this and not something else. Just because criticism doesn't line up with "TFP can do no wrong" doesn't make it invalid. The forums, reddit, and steam all have seen scathing reviews of 2.0. So either everyone is wrong or perhaps some of the negative feedback is warranted and some changes are needed.
 
@Kyoji They don´t play something else because as soon as they do, their views drop. Go and check some channels that tried to play other games, they all have way less views on non 7 days to die videos. The game keeps those youtubers alive.

And i agree 2.0 is lackluster. Still not a reason to listen to such a small minority that is doing 7 days content for a living so views do have the number one priority for them. Bringing up youtubers is simply not an argument.
 
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Vaeliorin said:
Honestly? I preferred it when I didn't have to spend so much time looting. Prior to magazines being a thing, I pretty much stopped looting entirely after Day 14 or so. Maybe 1-2 POIs a week after that, and I play on 2 hour days. I spent my time gathering and building, which is the part of the game that I enjoy.

If you got rid of the need for parts and legendary parts, I'd be more okay with needing to replace my tools, because at least then I wouldn't have to spend a bunch of time looking for more parts.
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The old system, when QL ranged from 1-600 was made for this. IIRC everything slowly degraded and you could of replace individual parts. I don't remember if you could make your own at some point or always had to scavenge them. I remember hoarding my ammo early game and storing parts for the day I could make my QL600 guns. It was scrapped for the current mod system, and we were told they were mutually exclusive.

This is 1 of the things that FO4 got right and since they love to copy that franchise anyway, they should have copied the weapon system. Although that still doesn't cover the weapons degrading or not.

I'll beat the dead horse 1 more time (and no doubt Kalen will beat it more after I bring it up) but gear wearing out and needing to be replaced would provide a much needed resource sink.
 
Krougal said:
The old system, when QL ranged from 1-600 was made for this. IIRC everything slowly degraded and you could of replace individual parts. I don't remember if you could make your own at some point or always had to scavenge them. I remember hoarding my ammo early game and storing parts for the day I could make my QL600 guns. It was scrapped for the current mod system, and we were told they were mutually exclusive.

This is 1 of the things that FO4 got right and since they love to copy that franchise anyway, they should have copied the weapon system. Although that still doesn't cover the weapons degrading or not.

I'll beat the dead horse 1 more time (and no doubt Kalen will beat it more after I bring it up) but gear wearing out and needing to be replaced would provide a much needed resource sink.
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Nah dude, you nailed it :)

However, I'm pretty sure you could only craft up to 500.... you had to combine items to get them to 600.
 
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