PC How about getting rid of secondary attack and put in shove

L

leaderdog

New member
I'm sure this has been mentioned but:

Get rid of secondary attack.

1) Stam drain is rather silly.

a) I can see it for the sledge hammer because if you swing that, there should be a pretty reasonable delay before you can swing it again. The hammer part is very heavy and will cause you to shift your whole body if you try and swing it with all your might.

b) axes much less sever drain/delay as the sledge hammer because it's far lighter weapon

c) iron reinforced club. or baseball bat. No sense to have a secondary attack or a massive stamina drain. Head off to the batting cages, I'm pretty sure even with you swinging your hardest at the ball, you've got many many swings in you before you're pausing to catch your breath.

d) other melee, same deal, they're light weight weapons so it shouldn't destroy your ability to swing.

2) A shove motion for secondary attack would be far more beneficial, as it would give you the space needed and chance to keep from being hit as you off balance the zombie(s) and get your weapon in position for another swing. This works for all melee weapon types (except knives perhaps) but it could still be your hands/shoulder pushing the zombie away so it still works.

And for those.. yes it's a game. But, the first iteration of power swing made left swing useless, the new stamina drain makes right click useless. I realize you're trying to add an only when necessary use and there is a consequence for a miss.

But again, the mechanic for melee weapons swing is broken. Despite what the devs try to say, and those players that defend the devs regardless. So the consequence of using a swing that has a high probability to miss even when the zombie is on the ground (for the second it's on the ground) makes the new iteration of power swing quite pointless.

This is a suggestion, not a rant.

Please add feedback as to what you think about the secondary attack.

 
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I like the idea but I think it should be optional... and they way it is optional is by carrying a riot shield to push with in your secondary hand. Otherwise, just your regular secondary attack. Of course, you would only be able to use melee weapons with the riot shield in hand, though... but that shouldn't matter much because you are using the shield, and it's pushing ability, with the intent of going into melee combat.

 
I could get behind that.

Although, I still think that with a club you would put it in front of you and shove the zombies with both hands.

Either with weapon in hand, or a riot shield, that could be a bit of "stamina" drain. Not to the level it currently is, but if possible make it scale with the number of zombies you're shoving.

 
I was actually thinking about this the other day... a way to have a pushing action and still keep the secondary action.

I just had a thought though. Maybe it could be possible with the mouse wheel.

Mouse wheel up puts you in defense mode. In defense mode, left click is a block and right click is block and push.

Mouse wheel down puts you in offense mode. In offense mode, left click is attack and right click is power attack.

Edit: scrolling through toolbar would need to be changed then. Forgot about that. Maybe shift + mouse wheel then.

 
I'd much rather have a kick!

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+ to shove, or kick, really anything that is used to put distance between the player and one or more zombies. This would make combat more interesting, provide tactical options to the player and be a good excuse to mocap someone getting shoved across a room.

I'd also like to see grappling. What if I could put a zombie in a choke hold, or even do ninja ♥♥♥♥ like rip their heads off? Combat is so unsatisfying; it really should be a priority. If the combat was fun I'd want to play this game the way TFP want me to. As it stands I need to tower defense or otherwise avoid night-time hordes, and everything else is just going through the motions. Either you get swarmed by runners or you can annihilate a small army with simple kiting.

 
I've always wanted a kick ability in this game similar to what you have in Dying Light, in that game the kick doesn't use any stamina but dose very little damage its more to just knock the zombies back and give you a little space, something similar would be nice a low damage stun or knock down secondary attack that could give you some time to regain stamina or an opening to run away I feel would be more useful than a power attack.

 
RMB power attack is fine imo. It works very well for clubs and sledges. Stamina isn't an issue one bit when perked, beer works for that too. But a roundhouse kick would be sick for knockbacks as a third option.

Or, shields. Always thought that would be a thing at some point.

 
Well heavy attack is useless now. I never use it. Not worth the risk. So need to do something with that RMB. A special attack sounds great. Let the player choose? Shove, roundhouse, footsweep….

Devs should check out State of Decay's combat.

 
Well heavy attack is useless now. I never use it. Not worth the risk. So need to do something with that RMB. A special attack sounds great. Let the player choose? Shove, roundhouse, footsweep….
Devs should check out State of Decay's combat.
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Yep!

That game is doing a lot of things right.

 
Putting aside how zombies tend to 'lag' in MP servers due to ping/cpu burden or ram constraints frequently or some other unknown issue, the push back probably wouldn't work half the time.

If we were to ignore the above, introducing a shove mechanic would really over complicate the heck out of the game. Why?

The challenge of zombies in 7dtd is mainly, it's ability to get close to you and hit you. Simple enough eh? We have limited mechanics to keep distance. Let's use a feral wight for instance and context.

You could outrun it. Stamina would be your limited resource.

With a sledgehammer, you could hopefully keep knocking it down. And that's with a lot of perks.

With an smg, you could kite it forever if your ammo holds up and perks give you stam.

well etc, various weapons have various advantages.

But then... shove... would just trivialize all of the above and more. Then everything in the game thus far goes turdy.

 
Iv said as much before, just adding 'power attacks' is a pretty lame addition to the game when we could have had a melee system on par with killing floor 2.

 
Putting aside how zombies tend to 'lag' in MP servers due to ping/cpu burden or ram constraints frequently or some other unknown issue, the push back probably wouldn't work half the time.
If we were to ignore the above, introducing a shove mechanic would really over complicate the heck out of the game. Why?

The challenge of zombies in 7dtd is mainly, it's ability to get close to you and hit you. Simple enough eh? We have limited mechanics to keep distance. Let's use a feral wight for instance and context.

You could outrun it. Stamina would be your limited resource.

With a sledgehammer, you could hopefully keep knocking it down. And that's with a lot of perks.

With an smg, you could kite it forever if your ammo holds up and perks give you stam.

well etc, various weapons have various advantages.

But then... shove... would just trivialize all of the above and more. Then everything in the game thus far goes turdy.
Click to expand...
That's for outdoor use only though. When you are in a poi building close combat and you get swarmed, Your options are to shoot your way out or melee your way out. You're not out running them. And the current melee system with it's amazing ability to miss zombies directly in front of you needs one of two things:

a) a proper melee attack that is a swing rather than the gun shot approach.

b) a shove/kick motion to move them off of you.

I encourage everyone to put themselves into a situation where 4-5 zombies are in front of you blocking your way and you are cornered. Your melee abilities drop to useless because you're getting battered and since your melee attack misses so much you're in serious trouble. Often fatal. Which you can argue is a believable situation, until you realize, if I was "Swinging" a club I wouldn't miss them before they had got me in this position, and if they did get to you, you would shove them away from you so they aren't hitting you.

 
Add it to the perk system, level 1 unlocks a basic shove, level 2 it gets batter, at level 3 you can get a kick, and 4 the kick becomes stronger, and at level 5 you can do shield slams (assuming shields are implemented)

 
I used the secondary attack, or power attack as it is called, a lot in the early public

experimental builds of A17. In B221 i didn't use it much at first, but in the level 70 - 80

i was starting to use it a bit more again. Not much, but it was becoming usable again.

And at that the higher levels one may need it, seeing as sleepers spawn more and more as radiated.

Nerfing the power attacks is one thing, however that also drags with it perks that relates

to them , making them seem useless early on.

Another thing that slightly bothers me, most of the combat appears to be tested and balanced for

fighting a single zombie, not a pack of 5 - 15 radiated zeds at a time (for which molotovs are possibly

better anyway) .

As for a swing only hitting where the crosshair is aiming.. it's just plain silly. Or as logical as walking

backwards through a closed door is possible since you ain't aiming at the door.... :playball:

 
The part I don't get about the power attack is the delay in stamina regen after you hit something.

That delay should happen when you miss! Like recovering from over-swinging.

Not getting that delay should be the reward for making a nice hit.

 
The LAST thing I want from the game is to become some sort of Mortal Kombat combat game. I relish the "simple" mechanics of the melee combat as they are simply due to my own physical dexterity limitations. There's a thousand kick/slash/block/triplebackflipthumbmynoseatyour mommaspecialattackmove combat games out there, go play one if that's what you want.

 
The LAST thing I want from the game is to become some sort of Mortal Kombat combat game. I relish the "simple" mechanics of the melee combat as they are simply due to my own physical dexterity limitations. There's a thousand kick/slash/block/triplebackflipthumbmynoseatyour mommaspecialattackmove combat games out there, go play one if that's what you want.
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So you think removing the "power attack" and replacing it with a shove or kick is over complicating the game?

Other than, I guess, trolling I'd question if you read anything in the thread.

Beyond that I'd question if you've been cornered with multiple zombies hitting you?

 
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