PC Horde Night Spawn

[lord_ahriman]

Last night was my 3rd horde night and GS 88, but last wave a bit weird (to say the least). As fas as I know, at GS 88 it should be:

<gamestage stage="85">
            <spawn group="feralHordeStageGS74" num="120" maxAlive="28" duration="2" interval="12"/>
            <spawn group="feralHordeStageGS80" num="120" maxAlive="28" duration="2" interval="19"/>
            <spawn group="feralHordeStageGS85" num="120" maxAlive="28" duration="7"/>
            <spawn group="feralHordeStageGS85" num="200" maxAlive="19"/>
        </gamestage>

or:

        <gamestage stage="91">
            <spawn group="feralHordeStageGS80" num="129" maxAlive="30" duration="2" interval="30"/>
            <spawn group="feralHordeStageGS85" num="129" maxAlive="30" duration="2" interval="16"/>
            <spawn group="feralHordeStageGS91" num="129" maxAlive="30" duration="7"/>
            <spawn group="feralHordeStageGS91" num="200" maxAlive="20"/>

Those hordes should ammount to:

Spoiler

<entitygroup name="feralHordeStageGS74">
        zombieBiker, .6
        zombieUtilityWorker
        zombieLumberjack, .64
        zombieBoeFeral, .41
        animalZombieDog
        animalDireWolf, .1
        animalZombieVulture, .2
        zombieJoe
        zombieNurse
        zombieJoeFeral, .32
        zombieJanitor
        zombieMoe
        zombieSoldier, .48

<entitygroup name="feralHordeStageGS80">
        zombieArlene
        zombieLumberjack, .7
        zombieMoeFeral, .33
        zombieJoe
        zombieFatCop, .63
        zombieSteve
        zombieBoeFeral, .47
        zombieBusinessMan
        zombieArleneFeral, .49
        zombieBoe
        zombieDarlene
        zombieTomClark

<entitygroup name="feralHordeStageGS85">
        zombieDarleneFeral, .48
        zombiePartyGirlFeral, .34
        zombieJanitor
        zombieSoldier, .59
        zombieSteveFeral, .31
        zombieBoe
        animalZombieVulture, .24
        zombieBiker, .71
        zombieLumberjack, .75
        zombieNurse
        zombieMoe
        zombieNurseFeral, .36

<entitygroup name="feralHordeStageGS91">
        zombieLumberjack, .81
        zombieMoe
        zombieBusinessMan
        zombieBiker, .77
        zombieMarleneFeral, .47
        zombieJoeFeral, .49
        zombieSteveFeral, .37
        zombieSkateboarder, .67
        zombieFemaleFat, .7
        zombieSoldier, .65
        zombieFatHawaiian, .72
        zombieBowler, .1
        zombieTomClark

That said, as I stated before the last wave was weird because I got some radiated zombies (Janitor, Moe and Spyder),  Feral Wight  and 2 demolishers.  Although, it should not have spawned any badass horde, it would partially explain:

<entitygroup name="badassHordeStageGS79">
        zombieFatCopRadiated, .21
        zombieSpiderRadiated, .25
        zombieMoeFeral, .69
        zombiePartyGirlFeral, .67
        zombieJanitorFeral, .73
        zombieUtilityWorkerFeral, .63
        zombieFatHawaiianRadiated, .21
        zombieBowlerRadiated,.1
        zombieBusinessManFeral, .75
        zombieJoeRadiated, .3
        zombieFatCopFeral, .56
        zombieBikerFeral, .57

But, demolishers should only show up at GS 147+:

<entitygroup name="feralHordeStageGS147">
        zombieTomClarkRadiated, .41
        zombieYoRadiated, .38
        zombieJoeRadiated, .52
        zombieDemolition, .15
        zombieJoe
        zombieFatCopFeral, .75
        zombieBikerFeral, .77
        zombieJanitor
        zombieSpiderRadiated, .23
        zombieMaleHazmatFeral, .83
        zombiePartyGirlFeral, .96
        zombieJanitorRadiated, .54

It wasn't a problem at all (I managed to defeat the horde by 1 am, explosives only defense), just weird. Does anyone has any idea what could have happened?

 

[Syphon583]

And you're positive your GS was 88 at the precise time that horde night kicked off? I only ask because your GS is boosted in greater amounts when in more difficult biomes. So if you fought the horde in the winter biome or wasteland (or more specifically, if you were in those biomes at the start of horde night), it's possible your GS was boosted enough to get those higher-level spawns.

Other than that I'm not sure what, if anything, will increase your GS temporarily. High-level POIs affect your Loot Stage, but I don't think they affect GS. The other possibility, of course, is that you have a mod that is altering BM spawns. I know for myself, I use a mod called Hellish Hordes by GNS which adds difficulty to the BM spawns.

 

[lord_ahriman]

And you're positive your GS was 88 at the precise time that horde night kicked off? I only ask because your GS is boosted in greater amounts when in more difficult biomes. So if you fought the horde in the winter biome or wasteland (or more specifically, if you were in those biomes at the start of horde night), it's possible your GS was boosted enough to get those higher-level spawns.

Other than that I'm not sure what, if anything, will increase your GS temporarily. High-level POIs affect your Loot Stage, but I don't think they affect GS. The other possibility, of course, is that you have a mod that is altering BM spawns. I know for myself, I use a mod called Hellish Hordes by GNS which adds difficulty to the BM spawns.

Yes, GS 88 and forest biome. I'm playing 25% loot, no loot respawn and no traders, so still couldn't get bicycle to speed up progress. Yeah, I know it would be over GS 200 in snow/wasteland, but something was off: I'm playing vanilla, no mods at all, therefore, it was way too soon for demolishers or radiated zombies.

Well, as I said before no problem at all, but I'd like to know what hapenned.

 

[Riamus]

Yes, GS 88 and forest biome. I'm playing 25% loot, no loot respawn and no traders, so still couldn't get bicycle to speed up progress. Yeah, I know it would be over GS 200 in snow/wasteland, but something was off: I'm playing vanilla, no mods at all, therefore, it was way too soon for demolishers or radiated zombies.

Well, as I said before no problem at all, but I'd like to know what hapenned.

What is your zombie count per player set to for horde night?  They made a change that limits spawns to 30 per player.  Any setting higher than that will increase the zombie difficulty, which may work like an increased game stage, though I haven't looked into it to know for sure.  Other than that, I don't know.  I'm always higher game stage by then, so I can't really compare how it is for me.  I definitely had demolition guys on my last 3rd horde night.

 

[Syphon583]

Yes, GS 88 and forest biome. I'm playing 25% loot, no loot respawn and no traders, so still couldn't get bicycle to speed up progress. Yeah, I know it would be over GS 200 in snow/wasteland, but something was off: I'm playing vanilla, no mods at all, therefore, it was way too soon for demolishers or radiated zombies.

Well, as I said before no problem at all, but I'd like to know what hapenned.

Interesting. Riamus might be onto something. I was actually just watching a streamer who is mostly playing vanilla (has mods, but nothing that affects GS or difficulty) and he just commented on how he's getting demos on day 20 (he's also playing hordes every 5 days, but that shouldn't affect GS too much). I wonder if the change Riamus is referring to is the cause.

 

[lord_ahriman]

What is your zombie count per player set to for horde night?  They made a change that limits spawns to 30 per player.  Any setting higher than that will increase the zombie difficulty, which may work like an increased game stage, though I haven't looked into it to know for sure.  Other than that, I don't know.  I'm always higher game stage by then, so I can't really compare how it is for me.  I definitely had demolition guys on my last 3rd horde night.

I'm always playing solo and 64 zombies. I do recall about the change "zombies per player", but didn't know the 64 setup could increase difficulty. That makes sense, because I can kill them very fast due to explosives (as I mentioned, before 1 am it was over and I managed to kill 605 zombies). Not sure I like this change. I know it could help performance for some players, but it could also make horde nights longer due to smaller waves. Well, whatever, it is what it is.

Thanks for the info.

 

[zombiehunter]

I'm always playing solo and 64 zombies. I do recall about the change "zombies per player", but didn't know the 64 setup could increase difficulty. That makes sense, because I can kill them very fast due to explosives (as I mentioned, before 1 am it was over and I managed to kill 605 zombies). Not sure I like this change. I know it could help performance for some players, but it could also make horde nights longer due to smaller waves. Well, whatever, it is what it is.

Thanks for the info.

I've noticed that the hordes get tougher earlier than they used to ever since 1.2 (or maybe 1.1, don't recall exactly).  I always play on Survivalist level, with 64 Zs on horde night, and I'm always building my horde base in the forest biome.  With all of that, I would never see cops until day 21, radiated until day 28 or 35, or demolishers until day 56, when my GS was over 150.

Now, I'm seeing cops on day 14, radiated on day 21 or 28, and demolishers on day 28.  My GS is not even 100 yet at that point.  I've done three playthroughs with 1.2 and they have all been consistent with this.  According to the XML data you posted, this shouldn't happen but it does.  I'm not complaining, but it is a big change, and I don't recall reading or hearing about this change leading up to the latest updates.  It just means I have to be prepared for the tougher Zs earlier than I used to.

 

[Space4Ace]

I've noticed that the hordes get tougher earlier than they used to ever since 1.2 (or maybe 1.1, don't recall exactly).  I always play on Survivalist level, with 64 Zs on horde night, and I'm always building my horde base in the forest biome.  With all of that, I would never see cops until day 21, radiated until day 28 or 35, or demolishers until day 56, when my GS was over 150.

Now, I'm seeing cops on day 14, radiated on day 21 or 28, and demolishers on day 28.  My GS is not even 100 yet at that point.  I've done three playthroughs with 1.2 and they have all been consistent with this.  According to the XML data you posted, this shouldn't happen but it does.  I'm not complaining, but it is a big change, and I don't recall reading or hearing about this change leading up to the latest updates.  It just means I have to be prepared for the tougher Zs earlier than I used to.

Here's what @faatal said about this:

"Bloodmoon parties (which is now players within 80m of any other player added to the party) now cap the amount of enemies spawned at one time to 30 (subject to change) to improve FPS. An 8 player group with the default setting of 8 per player, would have gotten 64 active enemies. To compensate for less enemies, the game stage increases based on the ratio. The game has global enemy caps and game stage maxAlive caps, but this helps with the specific case of FPS tanking during blood moons for a BM party."

 

[lord_ahriman]

I've noticed that the hordes get tougher earlier than they used to ever since 1.2 (or maybe 1.1, don't recall exactly).  I always play on Survivalist level, with 64 Zs on horde night, and I'm always building my horde base in the forest biome.  With all of that, I would never see cops until day 21, radiated until day 28 or 35, or demolishers until day 56, when my GS was over 150.

Now, I'm seeing cops on day 14, radiated on day 21 or 28, and demolishers on day 28.  My GS is not even 100 yet at that point.  I've done three playthroughs with 1.2 and they have all been consistent with this.  According to the XML data you posted, this shouldn't happen but it does.  I'm not complaining, but it is a big change, and I don't recall reading or hearing about this change leading up to the latest updates.  It just means I have to be prepared for the tougher Zs earlier than I used to.

It's 1.2 that's changing blood moon hordes (1.1 was pretty much like before and I got demolisher by day 21, but my horde defence was built in snow, so my GS was close 200). Currently playthrough is very slow because I'm playing 25% loot and no traders that's a lot harder to get vehicles books to speed up progress early (3rd horde night was weird as I said, but, at least, I got over 10 vehicles books as a loot)

Here's what @faatal said about this:

"Bloodmoon parties (which is now players within 80m of any other player added to the party) now cap the amount of enemies spawned at one time to 30 (subject to change) to improve FPS. An 8 player group with the default setting of 8 per player, would have gotten 64 active enemies. To compensate for less enemies, the game stage increases based on the ratio. The game has global enemy caps and game stage maxAlive caps, but this helps with the specific case of FPS tanking during blood moons for a BM party."

Thanks for the info.

 

[zombiehunter]

Here's what @faatal said about this:

"Bloodmoon parties (which is now players within 80m of any other player added to the party) now cap the amount of enemies spawned at one time to 30 (subject to change) to improve FPS. An 8 player group with the default setting of 8 per player, would have gotten 64 active enemies. To compensate for less enemies, the game stage increases based on the ratio. The game has global enemy caps and game stage maxAlive caps, but this helps with the specific case of FPS tanking during blood moons for a BM party."

That is interesting, although I play strictly single player.

 

[Riamus]

Here's what @faatal said about this:

"Bloodmoon parties (which is now players within 80m of any other player added to the party) now cap the amount of enemies spawned at one time to 30 (subject to change) to improve FPS. An 8 player group with the default setting of 8 per player, would have gotten 64 active enemies. To compensate for less enemies, the game stage increases based on the ratio. The game has global enemy caps and game stage maxAlive caps, but this helps with the specific case of FPS tanking during blood moons for a BM party."

Thanks for that quote.  I was somewhat incorrect in what I said before.  It's not 30 max per player, but 30 max per group within the area.  And it does verify that it increases game stage.  I couldn't remember it exactly. 

In any case, like I had commented on about that post in the initial thread, I think this should be an option and not something forced on players.  I've never had issues with lag on horde night, even with a full group, so having it limit the numbers isn't good for me.  If it's an option, people who do have FPS problems can use it.

 

[lord_ahriman]

Thanks for that quote.  I was somewhat incorrect in what I said before.  It's not 30 max per player, but 30 max per group within the area.  And it does verify that it increases game stage.  I couldn't remember it exactly. 

In any case, like I had commented on about that post in the initial thread, I think this should be an option and not something forced on players.  I've never had issues with lag on horde night, even with a full group, so having it limit the numbers isn't good for me.  If it's an option, people who do have FPS problems can use it.

Yeah, I agree: this should be a setting, not "mandatory". I don't think it's a good idea spawning demolishers, because you have 64 max alive in settings and game will only spawn 30 zombies per wave in such low GS. Not to mention, I don't think demolishers should be set off by other zombies hitting them: I got 2 demolishers as I said before and one exploded due to a cop spitting on him. My horde defence survived because it was the smaller energy substation which is fully concrete and I managed to reinforced it a bit (cobblestone and some concrete I have looted).

 

[Space4Ace]

In any case, like I had commented on about that post in the initial thread, I think this should be an option and not something forced on players.  I've never had issues with lag on horde night, even with a full group, so having it limit the numbers isn't good for me.  If it's an option, people who do have FPS problems can use it.

As I suggested in a post about this subject (elsewhere in the forums), they should leave the setting as it was, but add a warning, like for example: Changing this setting could result in lower FPS.

 

[Riamus]

As I suggested in a post about this subject (elsewhere in the forums), they should leave the setting as it was, but add a warning, like for example: Changing this setting could result in lower FPS.

Well, there is a benefit of having this option for people who can't handle a larger horde.  They can still get a more difficult one if they want.  But it really should be optional.

 

[Dead Smarty]

As I suggested in a post about this subject (elsewhere in the forums), they should leave the setting as it was, but add a warning, like for example: Changing this setting could result in lower FPS.

I might be completely mistaken but playing on a PS5 gives me the strong feeling that hordes affect FPS and stutters less than a cluster of POI's with high number of loot containers. My horde base is close to a trader with nothing else nearby and hordenight feels a lot smoother than just fighting a few zeds on a rooftop midtown.
To be fair  the hordes are not getting as impressive in numbers as I anticipated on earlier, might gonna revive my cobblestone starter base with cement and steel to see how it handles the lucky number 13 horde night.