PC Hmm guess it’s hurry up and wait for Alpha 17

[crazy8s]

I guess reading is too OP for some people lol.

 

[OzHawkeye]

I guess what I find most dis-heartening about some of the "I wantz A17 nowz!" feedback (and it's MUCH worse on the Steam forums), is the lack of historical perspective, which is something Roland touched on in his first post in this thread.

TFP have so far delivered sixteen Alpha's, all of which have by any objective measure, improved the game. They've each delivered more players, and more content to the best of my knowledge. Each has been delivered reasonably around the time they were expected. One gets significantly delayed, due to (amongst other factors) a major engine re-write/update, and suddenly there's copious volumes of frankly unwarranted angst that the development has somehow gone off the rails.

 

[wordwaster]

It is ridiculous that you would think that the type of feedback TFP wants or listens to from a public forum is how to run their company. The three owners were all successful business men before they started this company and based on results they have been managing this business quite well. They are interested in customer wishes and feedback as it pertains to gameplay and they have listened and made changes based upon that in a number of cases in the past. But they would be beyond stupid to take business advice from some anonymous forum user named "merlinfire".
Be honest, your motivation is 100% that you just want to play A17. You aren't interested in what is good for the company or what works best for how to develop this game. You are just focused on wanting to play what you want right now. I'd say that it is probably good that they aren't taking business advice from you.

The proof of whether their model is good or bad will be after A17 comes out. So far their long development times have resulted in a progressively larger bump in overall players after each update. If that happens again and more people return to play than ever have in the past then they are justified. If the return of players is a flop then you can bet they will reassess what they are doing. But doing what they do based on measurable results (which so far supports their model) is always going to be better than just doing what the masses tell them to do when it comes to business decisions.

so you honestly believe that people taking a quick look at the store page and seeing an early access game with no updates since 10/26/17 is good for business? mic drop.

 

[DaVegaNL]

I guess what I find most dis-heartening about some of the "I wantz A17 nowz!" feedback (and it's MUCH worse on the Steam forums), is the lack of historical perspective, which is something Roland touched on in his first post in this thread.
TFP have so far delivered sixteen Alpha's, all of which have by any objective measure, improved the game. They've each delivered more players, and more content to the best of my knowledge. Each has been delivered reasonably around the time they were expected. One gets significantly delayed, due to (amongst other factors) a major engine re-write/update, and suddenly there's copious volumes of frankly unwarranted angst that the development has somehow gone off the rails.

I guess it also has to do the with exponentially increasing time between the Alpha's. Yes, 16 Alpha's have been delivered, and I have no doubt A17 will come eventually. But the big angst-giver (is that a word?) is a development time of ~14 months and counting. 5 or 6 of those earlier Alpha's were delivered in the same timeframe it takes to make 1 Alpha nowadays.

 

[OzHawkeye]

I guess it also has to do the with exponentially increasing time between the Alpha's. Yes, 16 Alpha's have been delivered, and I have no doubt A17 will come eventually. But the big angst-giver (is that a word?) is a development time of ~14 months and counting. 5 or 6 of those earlier Alpha's were delivered in the same timeframe it takes to make 1 Alpha nowadays.

I'm pretty sure no-one (TFP included) would count this Alphas development time as a positive or hope for it to be repeated, but I just think people should keep it in context of the totality of this games development progress. Sooner or later, one of the Alphas (at least) was bound to get held up in a major way for one reason or another.

 

[DaVegaNL]

I'm pretty sure no-one (TFP included) would count this Alphas development time as a positive or hope for it to be repeated, but I just think people should keep it in context of the totality of this games development progress. Sooner or later, one of the Alphas (at least) was bound to get held up in a major way for one reason or another.

True. But is A17 being held up at the moment due to something major? There's nothing which tells us this. Seems to me they are still adding minor stuff, and slowly starting to work on bug-fixing. Seems to me development is just taking extraordinary long.

 

[OzHawkeye]

True. But is A17 being held up at the moment due to something major? There's nothing which tells us this. Seems to me they are still adding minor stuff, and slowly starting to work on bug-fixing. Seems to me development is just taking extraordinary long.

You mean apart from the near total overhaul required by updating the game to the latest version of Unity?

 

[DaVegaNL]

You mean apart from the near total overhaul required by updating the game to the latest version of Unity?

Sure, that's causing a long development time. Pretty obvious of course. But is it causing a delay in the development? Since that was what you mentioned.

 

[skippy0330]

Go with this. They are making the game that they want (at the pace that they think is best), even as it is one which they believe that customers will enjoy. If they succumbed to customer input and wishes all of the time, then the game would be a mess and take even longer to put out.
Basically, what I'm saying is that you (and others like you) are not the center of their universe. Put a sock in your ignorant pie-hole, and get back to waiting in silence.

Got sources for this? because every other alpha game that updated constantly and used player input to make changes, is now finished and released as a full game. Ark, subnautica, the list goes on. [snip By OzHawkeye - keep the personal attacks out of it]




him and people like him, are the people who purchased this game in good faith it would be completed in a timely matter, there is zero warning that "devs may lolly gag at will, with zero communication" when you buy the game. Any reasonable person would expect a finished game in a normal time frame.

You litearlly act as if we were handed the game, instead of duped into a purchase with a promise of completion.

*and to note, most developers have no problem telling us WHY there are delays, because they have valid excuses. The only time you get shut mouth or "it's done when it's done" is when there is none. If our purchases were stock, the game would have been finished years ago.

 

[skippy0330]

I'm pretty sure no-one (TFP included) would count this Alphas development time as a positive or hope for it to be repeated, but I just think people should keep it in context of the totality of this games development progress. Sooner or later, one of the Alphas (at least) was bound to get held up in a major way for one reason or another.

To be correct, for the last almost what, 5 years, each alpha HAS been majorly delayed, it just keeps getting longer every time.

 

[unholyjoe]

where is this "development time rule" that states "The Fun Pimps have to follow a set time to develop their game".

hint... it's not the wiki.

oh... explain this theory to Square Soft who took 10 yrs to fully develop FF XV and quite a few other large teams.

i am not looking to piss people off but i am sure some will be and attack me anyways, it always happens sorry.

 

[skippy0330]

where is this "development time rule" that states "The Fun Pimps have to follow a set time to develop their game".
hint... it's not the wiki.

oh... explain this theory to Square Soft who took 10 yrs to fully develop FF XV and quite a few other large teams.

None of these dev teams had paying customers waiting 10 years for the game, that's where the difference is. This is also a company with public stock, so they are held responsible by investors, ff xv, was a blockbuster game bringing im TONS of money for square, paying off. they weren't paid to do the project before it was finished. even 5 more years with this one, it won't even come close.

You don't need a wiki or a set rule book for consumer satisfactoin. we're customers, plain and clear. the only "development time rule" the fun pimps will see, is very little support for the next game they decide to drag out. Teh consumer makes the rules, not a wiki, not the dev. I love this game, but there is nothing wrong with being critical of the slow dev, or lack of communication to it's customer base.

show me where it says on the store page "warning, dev may do whatever they like, and never actually deliver on promises or even tell you whats going on" so it's reasonable people pick up this game with the expectation dev will move along with a reasonable pace (like every other complete, or almost complete alpha game that came out afer 7 days)

Imagine if talented businessmen like elon musk acted like this? his company would litearlly collapse overnight for saying "it's done when its done" and indeed, his customers paid for a product not finished yet as well.

 

[unholyjoe]

time will tell and sales are still growing tho and you are right, nothing wrong with Constructive Criticism.

 

[Jedo]

Got sources for this?

Sources for...? The fact that "too many cooks in the kitchen spoil the broth"? The fact that, in reading through the wildly divergent demands on this website, if TFP gave into all of them the game obviously would be a mess and take longer to put out? These things are simple logic.

[snip By OzHawkeye: edited out a quote of a comment I had to edit out]

You and the rest of us on here are not contractors nor are we a studio nor are we shareholders. This was exactly my point. That's maybe what you fail to understand. You paid for a game that you already have.

him and people like him, are the people who purchased this game in good faith it would be completed in a timely matter, there is zero warning that "devs may lolly gag at will, with zero communication" when you buy the game. Any reasonable person would expect a finished game in a normal time frame.

Hahahaha. You know that they are "lollygagging"? Got sources for that?

show me where it says on the store page "warning, dev may do whatever they like, and never actually deliver on promises or even tell you whats going on" so it's reasonable people pick up this game with the expectation dev will move along with a reasonable pace (like every other complete, or almost complete alpha game that came out afer 7 days)

Show me where it says on the store page "By buying this game you have the right to demand that the devs kowtow to your pissing, meeting your development timelines, implementing the features that you demand, and reporting to you at regular intervals because you are their boss."

Imagine if talented businessmen like elon musk acted like this? his company would litearlly collapse overnight for saying "it's done when its done" and indeed, his customers paid for a product not finished yet as well.

Surely you were using this example with full knowledge of what's going on with Tesla right now. They are far behind on Model 3 production, people have already paid for them, and his company has not collapsed overnight. Furthermore, he has suggested that he should take his company private because shareholders badgering for timelines is hurting the quality of the products that he wants to make. Pretty much the exact opposite of your points.

 

[DaVegaNL]

Looks like there are more triggers in this discussion than at an NRA-meeting..

Edit: Damnit, missed my #1000 post. xD

 

[OzHawkeye]

To be correct, for the last almost what, 5 years, each alpha HAS been majorly delayed, it just keeps getting longer every time.

And by some of the moaning and whining that goes on (especially on the Steam forums), you'd think that TFP had done it practically deliberately and that there was a real danger of the studio folding the very next day.

Have TFP missed some previously stated timelines for Alpha releases? Sure, that's a matter of fact and record. But against that is the massive improvements being made to each and every release of the game, and that absolute baselessness of any reasonable concerns about the game being finished.

All that's happened, literally all, is that it's taking longer than anyone would like.

 

[OzHawkeye]

Got sources for this? because every other alpha game that updated constantly and used player input to make changes, is now finished and released as a full game. Ark, subnautica, the list goes on.

This statement is just so full of wrong. From just MY OWN library:

Banished - never finished.

Castle Story - still in Alpha.

Empyrion - still in Alpha.

Factorio - still in Alpha.

The Forest - still in Alpha.

Fortresscraft Evolved - major development lag nearly sank the game at one point.

Medieval Engineers - still in Alpha.

Space Engineers - slapped a "it's Beta now" sticker on it, but without major content driving it beyond a pure sandbox experience.

Novus Inceptio - still in Alpha.

Rising World - still in Alpha and with a development speed that's glacial by comparison.

StarOne - at near standstill.

Stonehearth - another "it's 1.0!" sticker slapped on a clearly unfinished game.

- - - Updated - - -

Sure, that's causing a long development time. Pretty obvious of course. But is it causing a delay in the development? Since that was what you mentioned.

Well, it is, insofar as it's forced TFP to go back and re-do a lot of what had already previously been done, which detracts from the time available to do new things.

 

[DaVegaNL]

This statement is just so full of wrong. From just MY OWN library:
Banished - never finished.

Castle Story - still in Alpha.

Empyrion - still in Alpha.

Factorio - still in Alpha.

The Forest - still in Alpha.

Fortresscraft Evolved - major development lag nearly sank the game at one point.

Medieval Engineers - still in Alpha.

Space Engineers - slapped a "it's Beta now" sticker on it, but without major content driving it beyond a pure sandbox experience.

Novus Inceptio - still in Alpha.

Rising World - still in Alpha and with a development speed that's glacial by comparison.

StarOne - at near standstill.

Stonehearth - another "it's Beta!" sticker slapped on a clearly unfinished game.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, it is, insofar as it's forced TFP to go back and re-do a lot of what had already previously been done, which detracts from the time available to do new things.

Ah didn't know that they had to re-do a lot things. Sounds like my typical work-project

Ah, and as far as I know, The Forest has left the Alpha-stage. Subnautica, and Rimworld have left Alpha recently as well. Doesn't invalidate your list, of course.

 

[OzHawkeye]

Ah didn't know that they had to re-do a lot things. Sounds like my typical work-project
Ah, and as far as I know, The Forest has left the Alpha-stage. Subnautica, and Rimworld have left Alpha recently as well. Doesn't invalidate your list, of course.

Fair call, it did actually reach 1.0 in April.

I'd also like to make clear, if it weren't, many of the games I listed I really do enjoy, and the list was only of those in my "Favourites" category (since left for dead games like Timber and Stone aren't on the list). Even Space Engineers, which to me has the biggest "failure to meet potential" is still a game I load up every now and then.

I was just refuting skippy's "every other Alpha game" has left Alpha fantasy.

 

[insG_Drifter]

I see so many people in several locations like Skippy that buy EA games and then expect things their way and on their time. What they all seem to forget is the statement on the very page the game they order the game from...

This Early Access game is not complete and may or may not change further. If you are not excited to play this game in its current state, then you should wait to see if the game progresses further in development. Learn more

This game has been very playable and mods abound. I have no problem waiting on the update. With 300 + games in my inventory if I get bored I’ll play something else but in all honesty this by far is the best EA title I’ve purchased to date. I really am tired of the crying and whining as if something is owed to these people. It’s not just this title for sure but it’s gotten ridiculous.