PC Hi - Im really worried about TFP and 7d2d

Yeah you're right. Nothing was given. That $10/$12/$15 whatever it was must have really hit hard. 5 years, 16 Alphas. It's not like each update was some minor cosmetic change either. But whatever. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and expectation.
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Everyone who actually purchased this game paid the money these guys ask for it. It's not based on the "pay what you want" scheme, so maybe you think it's not much to pay, but it's the devs who came up with that price tag, they could perhaps ask more, but they decided not to. If it's not enough to cover their expenses, then it's not our fault. Also years in development, 16 alphas, saying that doesn't really justify anything either. Again, it's their time management, we as customers have no impact on the speed of the development.

 
People complaining about the update taking long are funny. You still can play the game right now.

Im excited for A17 to drop too, but i dont go on steam forums/reddit complaining with hundreds of hours of playtime for something i judge should be already out.

And i got this game for ♥♥♥♥ing 20$ with 1700h, i CANT complain lol

 
Folks we are fine. We are putting are head down and trying to finish a very large and quite frankly over scoped build. The game has suffered from years of trying to make everyone happy with quick releases at the cost of sloppy framework which needs gutting. If we take a break to rip it out so be it. If we weren't so concerned with making you all happy then it might have gotten done right the first time.

Just stay calm and zombie on we will survive and this build will ship. And console will get updated one way or another :)

Cheers Richard

 
Folks we are fine. We are putting are head down and trying to finish a very large and quite frankly over scoped build. The game has suffered from years of trying to make everyone happy with quick releases at the cost of sloppy framework which needs gutting. If we take a break to rip it out so be it. If we weren't so concerned with making you all happy then it might have gotten done right the first time.
Just stay calm and zombie on we will survive and this build will ship. And console will get updated one way or another :)

Cheers Richard
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Nice one, Richard, now you reassured... Maybe even 10 or 12 guys? 50? Ah, why not reach for the star themselves: One hundred guys calm down now, after your comforting lines.
Allow me to direct your attention to this post I've recently written:

I think communication with the dev's has improved lately, but, look at the negativity on Steam. The games rating has tanked lately, and Steams the primary advertising/sales medium. I think ignoring it between patches or expecting casual or new players to chase after things on Twitch or Reddit that they might not even use wasnt a good call. I just chalk up negativity over a youtube graphical debate due to some not realizing the technical points in regards to getting this stuff to look good on youtube in comparison to how it will actually look on individual machines. Plus, I mean whats madmoles specialty? Isnt he in charge of art or something? That doesnt make him an internet PR specialist or anything. I'd figure he's just doing the vid's because...well..someones got to, right?
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Joel's videos, well... In the latest, he spent half the video trying to get into that one house, showing next to nothing. Here is my suggestion:
1. Have at least one video per month that shows the latest changes. Most importantly, that video should be announced on Steam in the "RECENT NEWS"-section. Twitter, facebook, the local forums, whatnot, etc. etc. The video is actually produced by someone who knows their s...tuff, my ad hoc choice would be Games4Kicks, he knows the game well, he has good playing skills, he always cuts boring parts out, and he's entertaining. He could show whatever is new, textures, items, vehicles, bandits, npcs, etc. etc.

2. Modding news. Could be a monthly video as well, showing new modding options, showing the code, explaining the code, showing a couple of experiments with different settings. Particularly this video could have a request-section. In the first video, people would make requests in the comment section, asking the presenter to do this or that, and in the next, the results are demonstrated. Here I'd choose Max Fox, he's got the above mentioned skills covered and he's making his own mod, so he knows that area well too.

3. A dev stream, like many games have it. Devs being interviewed, answering questions from the chat or whatever source. Those bearded guys who were part of the stream team last alpha come to mind, they did a couple interviews. They seem quite chatty.

I would assume that G4K and Max would actually to these videos for free, no idea about the beard guys, but of course, a couple of monies would be more than justified. Or a generous bunch of free keys per video, if these can be bought for 7 bucks sometimes, I'd think they should be either free or at least cheaper for the devs.
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If you really do care about the players, like, of course, you say, why not have this? Get one or two experienced content creators on board, let them have the experimental, let them sit in on discord conferences, and let them showcase the latest developments in a professional manner. Review the videos before publication if you don't want everything to be shown. And - potentially more importantly - have at least one monthly dev stream with the bros, adressing pressing concerns and answering questions. There are actually a lot of people who think y'all have abandoned the game. And a whole lot more who don't know what to actually expect from the upcoming alpha. I mean, if we're honest, that's all of us. Like what zombie loot is going to be. Noone really knows. What Joel said about it, is vague, open to interpretation. And that's just an example.
People don't read the local forums, let alone the developer diary thread. So the "information" that the vast majority of people has available, is half truths, rumours, speculation and such. This post for example, that you just made. It will reach no substantial number of people. I dare say it's a pointless post, that will make next to no difference.

Again, if you care: Get your social media rolling, have frequent videos of good quality published, have a dev stream with the head honchos. An hour or two each month, just having a conversation, would make a huge difference.

 
People complaining about the update taking long are funny. You still can play the game right now.
Im excited for A17 to drop too, but i dont go on steam forums/reddit complaining with hundreds of hours of playtime for something i judge should be already out.

And i got this game for ♥♥♥♥ing 20$ with 1700h, i CANT complain lol
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In hindsight you should have released 7D2D and the original vision a long time ago, you should be working on 9D2D by now and trice the dollars to work with. Oh well, do your best.

 
@Garenman
I'm actually worried about you. You worry too much.
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Hi. Wait a second. That seems condescending. NEED I REMIND YOU I'VE ALREADY PAID YOU MY MONEY?

All I did was voice my concerns about the product I've bought into awaiting a final product...........Gazz.

Thank you.

 
Folks we are fine. We are putting are head down and trying to finish a very large and quite frankly over scoped build. The game has suffered from years of trying to make everyone happy with quick releases at the cost of sloppy framework which needs gutting. If we take a break to rip it out so be it. If we weren't so concerned with making you all happy then it might have gotten done right the first time.
Just stay calm and zombie on we will survive and this build will ship. And console will get updated one way or another :)

Cheers Richard
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"We are putting OUR heads down...." - sorry to critique spelling.

Indeed, it's nice to hear from the staff that it was an over-scoped build. I can hear that. The problem very clearly and very simply is when you guys started working on it. You're now cramming. Cramming while reminding everyone about

"If we weren't so concerned with making you all happy then it might have gotten done right the first time."

Well, considering we've all paid money for a final product, I don't think it's asking too much to "make us happy" - in fact, pretty sure you're doing your duty at this point. In fact, i'm 1000% sure of that. You're in the stage of Kickstarter and Early Access where you're making good on your claims for a final product. Good job.

But the scope of the build and the timing of the work itself entirely falls on TFP. So, we don't need too much reminding, as customers you have already paid you, that we need to keep being patient.

 
"We are putting OUR heads down...." - sorry to critique spelling.
Indeed, it's nice to hear from the staff that it was an over-scoped build. I can hear that. The problem very clearly and very simply is when you guys started working on it. You're now cramming. Cramming while reminding everyone about

"If we weren't so concerned with making you all happy then it might have gotten done right the first time."

Well, considering we've all paid money for a final product, I don't think it's asking too much to "make us happy" - in fact, pretty sure you're doing your duty at this point. In fact, i'm 1000% sure of that. You're in the stage of Kickstarter and Early Access where you're making good on your claims for a final product. Good job.

But the scope of the build and the timing of the work itself entirely falls on TFP. So, we don't need too much reminding, as customers you have already paid you, that we need to keep being patient.
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If you bought the game on steam, you actually definitely did not pay money for a final product. Steam makes it very clear that you are buying a playable game that may or may not be continually developed in the future. It also clearly states that if you are not satisfied with the state of the game at the time of purchase, to NOT buy and keep instead keep an eye on the game's future development to see if it evolves to a state that you are satisfied with.

Again, Steam makes it clear that you are purchasing the game as is at the time of purchase, but that you will also receive access to any and all future updates until it goes gold, assuming it ever does.

What we are all waiting impatiently for is bonus content provided at no extra charge by TFP. Reading comprehension will save you from unhappiness with future purchases if you read carefully before you buy. If you have a problem with reading comprehension, you really should have someone without such difficulties read it to you.

 
You're now cramming.
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They really aren’t. They are quite unconcerned (obviously) with rushing it out. They’ll go as long as they need to. I keep wanting them to cram but they are working methodically and in good humor like always getting it done. There is not a date that any exec has told them “It’s ready by this date or you’re fired”. It’s really the point of being an independent studio to never have to cram.

Well, considering we've all paid money for a final product, I don't think it's asking too much to "make us happy" - in fact, pretty sure you're doing your duty at this point. In fact, i'm 1000% sure of that. You're in the stage of Kickstarter and Early Access where you're making good on your claims for a final product. Good job.

But the scope of the build and the timing of the work itself entirely falls on TFP. So, we don't need too much reminding, as customers you have already paid you, that we need to keep being patient.
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You missed his point. He wasn’t saying that they are now trying to make everyone happy by getting the update out as quickly as possible. He’s saying that the build got overscoped because they were listening to too many voices in the community and trying to make everyone happy. If they had just stuck with their goals and disregarded fan input for G H I J K and L then the update would’ve happened already. Not necessarily for just the current build but all along since the beginning.

 
I don´t get why you wanna rush the development of a game. It never happens anything good if developers rush a game. Never ever.

As said this game could be released already. Looking ugly and having way less content. I´d rather wait 3-5 more years and getting more things to build than actually seeing that we are in one of the last alphas right now.

Impatience is the reason we can´t have good games. If you take your time to deliver a well polished product, people punish you for it with bad reviews. Meh.

Do you people who want the game released yesterday enjoy the out of thin air in your face zombie spawnings? Or the Z´s circling a small tree forever? Or the wandering hordes rather tearing apart a skyscraper when they just would need to go one block sideways to have a free passage to you? Just wondering...

And no one paid for a full product. We all paid way less than for a finished game. I mean i paid 15€. 20€ as it is now? If you played more than 30 hours you got enough for your money tbh.

 
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Well, considering we've all paid money for a final product, I don't think it's asking too much to "make us happy" - in fact, pretty sure you're doing your duty at this point. In fact, i'm 1000% sure of that. You're in the stage of Kickstarter and Early Access where you're making good on your claims for a final product.
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Besides the kickstarter goals etc - there is a fine line between listening to the community's feedback and trying to make everyone happy by caving in and following any piece of feedback you are able to, even if it goes against your initial recipe. The former is a characteristic of a good company, with the latter you risk ending up with a circus of a game.

 
Well, considering we've all paid money for a final product...
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I'd like to take a moment to point out that this statement is wholly incorrect.

What you paid money for, was access to the Alpha version that was available at the time you purchased. Anything that comes after is icing on the cake.

You might want to go back and refresh yourself on the Seam Early Access Facts.

https://store.steampowered.com/earlyaccessfaq/

 
EA can be abused and Steam has already removed many games which have misled customers, sold enough copies and bailed out, or became broken in the development process and left that way. EA is a great concept for aspiring indie developers, but that's not to say that it should be left completely unchecked.

I don't think anyone can possibly claim that 7DTD falls under these categories though - it is playable and updates are rare but are happening. And since it doesn't, none can claim he got scammed of their money's worth. But also, that doesn't mean players can't or shouldn't critique the game and the development process.

 
This game could easily qualify as a finished product. It is the best zombie survival game out there in my opinion. I understand that people are excited for the new features but that doesn't justify all the toxicity that I am seeing here. The game as it is right now is worth the purchase price and I'd say if the Pimps wanted they could call it finished and start working on whatever else that they want.

I personally am just grateful that they are continuing to improve the game and work in so many features. Yeah this build is taking a long time to get out but since they really don't even have to give it to you, you should be happy that its coming at all.

 
Folks we are fine. We are putting are head down and trying to finish a very large and quite frankly over scoped build. The game has suffered from years of trying to make everyone happy with quick releases at the cost of sloppy framework which needs gutting. If we take a break to rip it out so be it. If we weren't so concerned with making you all happy then it might have gotten done right the first time.
Just stay calm and zombie on we will survive and this build will ship. And console will get updated one way or another :)

Cheers Richard
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So you're saying the previous years saw quick releases? Lol.. Could you clarify?

 
So you're saying the previous years saw quick releases? Lol.. Could you clarify?
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[TABLE=class: grid, width: 625, align: center]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha Version[/TD]

[TD=align: center]Released[/TD]

[TD=align: center]Days 1[/TD]

[TD=align: center]Days 2[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Kickstarter[/TD]

[TD=align: center]July 2013?[/TD]

[TD=align: center]--[/TD]

[TD=align: center]--[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 1[/TD]

[TD=align: center]8/16/2013[/TD]

[TD=align: center]--[/TD]

[TD=align: center]--[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 1 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]9/18/2013[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]33[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 2[/TD]

[TD=align: center]11/9/2013[/TD]

[TD=align: center]85[/TD]

[TD=align: center]52[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 3[/TD]

[TD=align: center]11/19/2013[/TD]

[TD=align: center]10[/TD]

[TD=align: center]10[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 4[/TD]

[TD=align: center]11/24/2013[/TD]

[TD=align: center]5[/TD]

[TD=align: center]5[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 4 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]11/27/2013[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 5[/TD]

[TD=align: center]12/13/2013[/TD]

[TD=align: center]16[/TD]

[TD=align: center]16[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 5 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]12/21/2013[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]8[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 6[/TD]

[TD=align: center]1/15/2014[/TD]

[TD=align: center]33[/TD]

[TD=align: center]25[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 6.4 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]2/6/2014[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]22[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 7[/TD]

[TD=align: center]2/28/2014[/TD]

[TD=align: center]44[/TD]

[TD=align: center]22[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 7.11 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]4/22/2014[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]53[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 8[/TD]

[TD=align: center]4/27/2014[/TD]

[TD=align: center]58[/TD]

[TD=align: center]5[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 8.8 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]7/23/2014[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]87[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 9[/TD]

[TD=align: center]8/15/2014[/TD]

[TD=align: center]110[/TD]

[TD=align: center]23[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 9.3X Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]9/18/2014[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]34[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 10[/TD]

[TD=align: center]11/22/2014[/TD]

[TD=align: center]99[/TD]

[TD=align: center]65[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 10.4 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]12/19/2014[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]27[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 11[/TD]

[TD=align: center]4/2/2015[/TD]

[TD=align: center]131[/TD]

[TD=align: center]104[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 11.6 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]6/12/2015[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]71[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 12[/TD]

[TD=align: center]7/3/2015[/TD]

[TD=align: center]92[/TD]

[TD=align: center]21[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 12.5 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]8/23/2015[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]51[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 13[/TD]

[TD=align: center]12/12/2015[/TD]

[TD=align: center]162[/TD]

[TD=align: center]111[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 13.8 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]2/5/2016[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]55[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 14[/TD]

[TD=align: center]3/26/2016[/TD]

[TD=align: center]105[/TD]

[TD=align: center]50[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 14.7 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]6/20/2016[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]86[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 15[/TD]

[TD=align: center]10/5/2016[/TD]

[TD=align: center]193[/TD]

[TD=align: center]107[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 15.2 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]2/4/2017[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]122[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 16[/TD]

[TD=align: center]7/12/2017[/TD]

[TD=align: center]280[/TD]

[TD=align: center]158[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 16.4 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]10/26/2017[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]106[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Avg. days between release[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]95[/TD]

[TD=align: center]53[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Days since last release[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]452[/TD]

[TD=align: center]346[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

A1-A4 where not on Steam. A5 was the first Steam release, and is considered the official release date by many sites.


All console dates highlighted in green received Alpha 15 release content.

​




Now look at the time on some of the larger builds.

  • A9 was a complete interface overhaul and the introduction of Randomly Generated Worlds. Buff system was introduced along with many effects.
  • A11 was re-coded for Unity 5, added the gore block system, and many other features in RWG. It was the largest update yet when it released.
  • A13 had huge framework changes, added HD Zeds, motion capture movement, dismemberment, the knockdown system, and weather.
  • A15 was again the largest yet. New Distant Terrain feature introduced. A large number of new POI's. Larger Navezgane map. New height map for large mountains. A re-design of the RWG system. Traders and economy were introduced. New Blood moon horde system with dynamic difficulty. And loads more.
  • A16 again was larger than any previous with more modifications to disatant POI, and the game stages. Electricity was added, a ton of new POI's, and screamer horde changes,. Plus more work on the RWG mixer system, world previewer, and the addition of a crapload of more zombies and animals.
  • A17 basically looked at all the others and said, "Here, hold my beer".
    A complete re-work on the code upgrading to Unity 2017. Huge amounts of optimization are part of this rework. New vehicles, new physics for vehicles. New buff system. Completely new weapon system. Another complete re-work on the RWG system and distant POI. And those are just a few of the key features.

 
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