PC Hey Mooooom.... the Meatloaf..... we want it now!

IMO, death penalty should be one of the new player options since the sentiment about it is so completely varied. Even the results of death have varied greatly over the history of the game. I remember sometime back you could actually choose to spawn nearby your backpack in addition to nearby or on your bedroll. And then way way back you had a suicide button and your pick of static resoawn points all over the map. Talk about teleportation abuse... :)
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A16 was trashy by all accounts when it came to consequences. Not sure why A17.0 death penalty seems to have changed to only 1 point of attribute penalty even if you die multiple times (unless it's a bug), but that makes death pretty inconsequential (not at A16 levels but still). Options would be good yes.

So that's why energy has a 2 second pause after a power attack.. pfft.. ;U
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Maybe TFP could actually add and leverage a regen delay in every attack and then add a way to reduce that delay in agility or perks...!

The switch from topic to perk system gets quicker each thread.
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shhh....

 
Well, if you had to put points into agility, the situation was tragic indeed! Thankfully, the need for agility is no more.
No, I mean the A17 initial death penalty. That reduced your attributes up to half of what you had.
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Its still there but we reduced how nasty it is. I think it just takes one point away now.

 
I like how roland got sucked right into it too lol
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I only talked perks as it related to stamina and in fairness all of this is part of the OP question about what aspects of the original A17 that the devs said they would be reworking have been reworked etc.

I’m not going to debate perk systems any longer. ;)

 
Its still there but we reduced how nasty it is. I think it just takes one point away now.
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Yes, only one point and doesn't stack with multiple deaths. Since the penalty doesn't stack anymore people are happily suiciding again in order to reset their health bar or a debuff like a broken leg, almost like they did in A16. And if you have an extra point in an attribute, it doesn't penalize you at all...

I can understand backing down on stamina changes - the backlash was large and had some points, but I think you could have gotten away with just reducing the penalty's duration like you did... You decided on it initially in order to create impactful consequences after all.

I hate asking for options but since you want the game to have a 100% malleable experience, I hope we get an option for it! (whether it can stack) (or I'll haunt you for eternity, thanks)

I do think health and stamina should go to 50 again like it used to...
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I agree. Even then, it also has to stack somehow. It doesn't have to penalize the hell out of you, but a form of stacking is vital, lest we start seeing people falling into suicide spirals all over again.

 
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They ask for bug reports but hate when you tell them a fix.
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I don't mind. I just take these things as a suggestion at best.

Yes, only one point and doesn't stack with multiple deaths. Since the penalty doesn't stack anymore people are happily suiciding again in order to reset their health bar or a debuff like a broken leg, almost like they did in A16. And if you have an extra point in an attribute, it doesn't penalize you at all...
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A lot of players like being able to say they are playing a survival game... but there can not be consequences for death, fall damage, or any such thing. /shrug

Even then, it also has to stack somehow. It doesn't have to penalize the hell out of you, but a form of stacking is vital, lest we start seeing people falling into suicide spirals all over again.
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I cooked up (mostly) the original setup and I still think it it was fair.

Even at 1/2 hour it was starting to become eh... whatevs.

 
A lot of players like being able to say they are playing a survival game... but there can not be consequences for death, fall damage, or any such thing. /shrug
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You're right, Gazz, but i think you're starting to forget that we're playing a game - it should be interesting. Not boring.

In fact, the old system with Wellness was more interesting and effective than the new one that is now. Even if it was imperfect.

Need something else. This is a abortive.

 
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I'm not quite exactly sure what you mean by "meatloaf"...

maybe that's?

 
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I think it's a matter of getting used to some things (in this example the death debuff). People are so used to fighting how it was in A16 it's painful to watch them fight sometimes (and i mostly mean streamers).

If i made mistakes in any souls game and died with many souls (or blood echoes, the equivalent of $$$) it was my bad for not being careful, but also not using them when i could. Surely, running back to where they were dropped and picking them up is an option, unless you are denied it by dying again (then they're gone). "Oh no, another 10k, 20k, 50k souls that i got from that last boss went to waste!".

I still play souls games and i still occasionally lose lots of souls. Hell, i watch some great streamers like SquillaKilla who made deathless and hitless runs in all of the games, but he also occasionally loses lots of souls when he tries out various challenges or mods. You could go through the whole game simply mashing on attack, but then there are shields. If not only using shields there's dodging. If not dodging there's parrying. If you mind up close there are ranged weapons. Don't like ranged, there's magic in various forms. No matter the game though, everything can be recovered, unless you start losing important and powerful items on death - that's too cheesy.

If i go into a POI in 7DTD always the same, enraging many zombies at a time and get overwhelmed in similar situations, i should improve on how i do things and move on from my mistakes. Try doing stealth, baiting Zs one at a time, escaping to an open field (if i fought them in tight spaces), use ranged weapons or traps (seen someone put down a turret in front of a poi for dealing with ferals/radz, spikes could work too). If i don't adapt and get killed over and over surely i'd feel bad, but it's my error in thinking the game is bull***t instead of trying other things.

IN SHORT: I liked the long waiting for the debuff to end (doing other things than fighting, but also it stacking on each death) because i felt the consequences of my bad decisions. I miss that feeling...

 
IA lot of players like being able to say they are playing a survival game... but there can not be consequences for death, fall damage, or any such thing. /shrug.
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You're right, Gazz, but i think you're starting to forget that we're playing a game - it should be interesting. Not boring.
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And the irony, Gazz, is that many of these players don't realize that with a lack of consequences, the game will get boring for them faster in the long-term. Not saying that includes you necessarily n2n1 or assuming anything, it's just psychology 101, blame human nature.

Anyway, I am sure many would appreciate an option for a stacking DP, that will give more value to staying alive and subsequently also bring value to ALL items in the game that help you stay alive!

 
now I haven't tested to verify this.....

but this is what I remember trying. During the death debuff, you get a strength decrease. but I had points to spend, and at the time I think I was at like 5-6? and it went down to 3 during the debuff, the next level cost for lvl 4 strength was only 1 point though. I kind of wondered about this but then said what the hell and spent the point, and after near death, I actually increased a level beyond where I was. Spelling this out, instead of costing 3 points to raise it, it only cost me 1.

Now I do know that the same DID NOT work for perception during illness.

it may have been a fluke and like I said I haven't tested. anyone lese notice this?

 
You're right, Gazz, but i think you're starting to forget that we're playing a game - it should be interesting. Not boring.In fact, the old system with Wellness was more interesting and effective than the new one that is now. Even if it was imperfect.

Need something else. This is a abortive.
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I agree completely. The new system is confusing. It took discussing it in the forum to figure out the mechanics. That's bad UX design.

And the irony, Gazz, is that many of these players don't realize that with a lack of consequences, the game will get boring for them faster in the long-term. Not saying that includes you necessarily n2n1 or assuming anything, it's just psychology 101, blame human nature.
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I agree there needs to be consequences, but I believe those consequences should be negligible in the beginning of the game. Look at Path of Exile. You only start losing XP from deaths in the second half of the game. I always feel it's a good idea to go easy on new &/ weak players. I liked that the old wellness system would only punish you to a point for dying repeatedly, and then go no further. What TFP could have done, is make dying lose more points at higher levels / game stage. I think that would have discouraged people from using death as a broken leg reset.

 
I agree there needs to be consequences, but I believe those consequences should be negligible in the beginning of the game. Look at Path of Exile. You only start losing XP from deaths in the second half of the game. I always feel it's a good idea to go easy on new &/ weak players. I liked that the old wellness system would only punish you to a point for dying repeatedly, and then go no further. What TFP could have done, is make dying lose more points at higher levels / game stage. I think that would have discouraged people from using death as a broken leg reset.
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That's how the DP worked in A17.0. Its stacking penalty was capped at 1/2 of your attributes. Besides the initial low level protection, the penalty scaled with the attributes you had invested.

 
I think that would have discouraged people from using death as a broken leg reset.
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A simple fix to discouraged people from using death as a broken leg reset is simply to retain the broken leg even after the death.

The same with all non lethal deseases.

 
/////In fact, the old system with Wellness was more interesting and effective than the new one that is now. Even if it was imperfect.

Need something else. This is a abortive.
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Specifically, i would suggest how the penalty for death is to take away the points that the player has earned, and if there are none - then write it down in debt.

 
Specifically, i would suggest how the penalty for death is to take away the points that the player has earned, and if there are none - then write it down in debt.
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Why always a punishment for dying? Why not a reward for not dying ? A reward that gets bigger with time so you have to rebuild it after death. This would be much more motivating to avoid death if possible.

 
Why always a punishment for dying? Why not a reward for not dying ? A reward that gets bigger with time so you have to rebuild it after death. This would be much more motivating to avoid death if possible.
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Yeah, maybe that way, too. Just, "punishment for death" more understandable. Сause-and-effect relationships.

 
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Why always a punishment for dying? Why not a reward for not dying ? A reward that gets bigger with time so you have to rebuild it after death. This would be much more motivating to avoid death if possible.
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This

 
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