Heli Pad Stucture - Landing Function

GuardianReaper0

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There are various locations with Helipads in the game, most notably at the traders. 
The Gyrocopter is, let’s face it, not the most controllable (especially on console). 
 

So how about a feature that when you get within viewable distance of a helipad, and have a clear line-of-sight to it, you can press a button and it will auto land for you?

It will function as a sort of autopilot allowing you to set down squarely on the pad, without overshooting or bouncing around.

Helipads should also be a buildable “structure” with this change too. It by itself would appear pretty much flat, so it can be set on a variety of other blocks without looking awkward.

This would be extremely useful for trader access, bases, etc.

Perhaps for balance it would require power, which always on at traders, can be hooked up at bases, and can be activated like doors with a switch at POIs. 

 
Then why even have helipads at every trader and many POIs?


They are looking at Fast Travel in a future update, though it was only mentioned briefly.  Whether or not that makes it in the final game is not known yet, but the POI designers at least have it implemented on their end.

Fast travel would likely just be between traders though.  The other POIs that have it, that is just there as part of the POI design.

 
Yeah, gyros land like a plane does, not like a helicopter.  Now, I can't say how they fly with a controller, but I've found them to be much easier to control in 1.0 than they used to be.  I can practically just let go of the controls to land now, where it used to be much harder to land.  Note I am not saying I *can* let go of the controls before anyone starts complaining about that.  I just mean it's so easy that it feels like you can.  And, technically you can once you're close enough to the ground.  At this point, I can pretty easily land in a very small area with one.

If you are having a hard time landing, more practice will make it easier, but you can also just exit the gyro as soon as you're almost on the ground and it will just drop the last couple meters and stop moving and you won't get hurt (if you are close to the ground like I said).  Or touch down to the ground and then exit to immediately stop movement.  This makes it extremely easy to land safely.  But more practice will make it easier to land without jumping out to stop the gyro, which is how I prefer to do things.

 
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Quick question to follow up to this:

Does anyone else feel like the gyrocopters make the game too easy in the later stages?

I’d like to hear the feedback before I jump into the next stage of suggestion.

Also, I was not aware they were thinking about fast travel between traders, that is good info to know.

 
Easy?  I don't see that they really add much other than a nice way to get places and see things.  I rarely use them because I find it's better to be on the ground most of the time.  You can't loot anything from a gyro, so you miss out on any random loot you might find on the ground, though you usually don't care much about loot by the time you have a gyro, but it's a negative regardless.  There isn't really anything that it makes easier unless you're a bad driver and yet can fly the gyro without crashing.  On the ground, you can get around very easily.  If you are good at driving, you aren't going to be crashing into stuff and zombies aren't going to bother you, so not sure why it's "too easy" when using a gyro instead.  Now, it is easier compared to driving cross county in the wasteland due to all that steel on the ground, though if you're good, you can dodge most of that on a motorcycle at full speed.  But if you mean it's safer from zombies.... you shouldn't ever be hit by zombies in a vehicle unless you're not paying attention to where you are going.

It is easier if you want to just point and sit there without paying much attention and I think that part is perfectly fine.

 
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Well, the gyro isn't a helicopter so...  They would need landing strips.
While in game this is accurate. However, this isn't how gyros actually work. I really wish they'd fix it for VTOL. This doesn't fly because of fixed wing generated lift, (no wings!) so the concept of forward momentum needed for takeoff is antithetical to how physics works. Lol this SHOULD fly like a heli

 
While in game this is accurate. However, this isn't how gyros actually work. I really wish they'd fix it for VTOL. This doesn't fly because of fixed wing generated lift, (no wings!) so the concept of forward momentum needed for takeoff is antithetical to how physics works. Lol this SHOULD fly like a heli
Are you sure about that?  I've seen videos of gyros taking off and landing and they do so like a plane.  I ask because I have no idea if the videos are accurate.

 
However, this isn't how gyros actually work. I really wish they'd fix it for VTOL. This doesn't fly because of fixed wing generated lift, (no wings!) so the concept of forward momentum needed for takeoff is antithetical to how physics works.


I'm not a fly-guy in any sense of the word, so I can only parrot Wikipedia and hope for the best: "An autogyro, or gyroplane, is a class of rotorcraft that uses an unpowered rotor in free autorotation to develop lift. While similar to a helicopter rotor in appearance, the autogyro's unpowered rotor disc must have air flowing upward across it to make it rotate."

and: "Because the craft must be moving forward with respect to the surrounding air to force air through the overhead rotor, autogyros are generally not capable of vertical takeoff (except in a strong headwind). A few types such as the Air & Space 18A have shown short takeoff or landing."

 
1. Perhaps they should rework trader locations to have a short airstrip rather than helipads then.

2. I’d still say the idea would be applicable to dedicated “airstrip” structures.

3.

Easy?  I don't see that they really add much other than a nice way to get places and see things.  I rarely use them because I find it's better to be on the ground most of the time.  You can't loot anything from a gyro, so you miss out on any random loot you might find on the ground, though you usually don't care much about loot by the time you have a gyro, but it's a negative regardless.  There isn't really anything that it makes easier unless you're a bad driver and yet can fly the gyro without crashing.  On the ground, you can get around very easily.  If you are good at driving, you aren't going to be crashing into stuff and zombies aren't going to bother you, so not sure why it's "too easy" when using a gyro instead.  Now, it is easier compared to driving cross county in the wasteland due to all that steel on the ground, though if you're good, you can dodge most of that on a motorcycle at full speed.  But if you mean it's safer from zombies.... you shouldn't ever be hit by zombies in a vehicle unless you're not paying attention to where you are going.

It is easier if you want to just point and sit there without paying much attention and I think that part is perfectly fine.
My point on this part is that other games, most notably Ark and Palworld for example, have flight early on in their game, and it destroys a lot of the game for players, as they no longer need to worry about terrain, any of the dangers along the way, etc.

Here in 7dTD I’m glad they made it an “end-game” thing, though looking at it as a whole I personally feel it was a mistake to implement in the first place.

Being able to freely fly wherever you want to go with no danger whatsoever of being attacked or stopped honestly hurts the game IMO. Personally I don’t like using the gyro at all for this reason. (I posted suggestion on behalf of my buddy because he has ideas but absolutely hates forums.)

That said, I could get behind a future change that would let you fast travel essentially to traders MAYBE, but I still think that ground transport needs to be the focus. 
I’m still hoping for the Army truck as a usable vehicle being added to vanilla. I know I’ve mentioned it before but being able to fill extra mod slots with steel crates to increase inventory size would my optimal, but I don’t mean to get off subject.

 
They still plan to add more storage as a mod for at least some vehicles based on their last comments about it.  Not sure if it will apply to every vehicle.  Like I said, even on a motorcycle or 4x4 (or any land vehicle, including a bicycle), you aren't in any danger driving around as long as you're paying attention.  Zombies are easy to avoid and terrain isn't a danger, merely an obstacle.  I don't have data so may be wrong, but I doubt most people use the gyro that often.  And if they do, it's just to get point A to point B and then they have a ground vehicle with them to use once they are there.  So it really isn't a big deal, imo.

As far as an airstrip, I don't know how much distance a real gyro needs to land or take off, and I'm sure it's less than a small plane, but the landing strip to be realistic would still need to be very long.  There are a few discussions about airstrip lengths that get into specific details, but they aren't short.  The airport mod's airstrip is close to 2km in length, for example.  They could do a mini airstrip since the gyro can actually land in just a few meters and take off in an extremely short distance in this game, but a lot of people wouldn't like that it was that unrealistic.

 
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They still plan to add more storage as a mod for at least some vehicles based on their last comments about it.  Not sure if it will apply to every vehicle.  Like I said, even on a motorcycle or 4x4 (or any land vehicle, including a bicycle), you aren't in any danger driving around as long as you're paying attention.  Zombies are easy to avoid and terrain isn't a danger, merely an obstacle.  I don't have data so may be wrong, but I doubt most people use the gyro that often.  And if they do, it's just to get point A to point B and then they have a ground vehicle with them to use once they are there.  So it really isn't a big deal, imo.

As far as an airstrip, I don't know how much distance a real gyro needs to land or take off, and I'm sure it's less than a small plane, but the landing strip to be realistic would still need to be very long.  There are a few discussions about airstrip lengths that get into specific details, but they aren't short.  The airport mod's airstrip is close to 2km in length, for example.  They could do a mini airstrip since the gyro can actually land in just a few meters and take off in an extremely short distance in this game, but a lot of people wouldn't like that it was that unrealistic.
From my experience, about 80% of players don’t touch the other ground vehicles except on very rare occasion once they gain access to gyro, IF they can figure out how to fly it. 
 

Of those, over half of them quit playing the game very soon after because they got “bored”, because they “had already explored all the big areas”. 
 

Sticking with ground travel you find a lot more things to explore.

 
From my experience, about 80% of players don’t touch the other ground vehicles except on very rare occasion once they gain access to gyro, IF they can figure out how to fly it. 
 

Of those, over half of them quit playing the game very soon after because they got “bored”, because they “had already explored all the big areas”. 
 

Sticking with ground travel you find a lot more things to explore.
That isn't the sense I have gotten over all the time I've been seeing people posting here.  If I were to guess the end game vehicles people used most based on comments I've seen, I'd estimate this:

Motorcycle 75%

4x4 20%

Gyrocopter 5%

As I said, that is a guess.  However, I think it's going to be similar. Note that this is the breakdown for what people use "most," meaning if someone uses multiple vehicles (I always have all 3 at end game and the bike and minibike are in a box or sitting in the garage unused), this refers to the one they use most often.

The gyro might be used by a lot of console players right now simply because it's new and interesting and different.  Give them a few months and most will be using a motorcycle.  4x4 is liked by many players except that they don't like how it drives because it tends to have more trouble getting around things and over things and is especially painful in the wasteland if you're not on a road.  That leaves the motorcycle as the main vehicle for people as it's easy to maneuver and still has good storage, even if it's less than the 4x4.

 
That isn't the sense I have gotten over all the time I've been seeing people posting here.  If I were to guess the end game vehicles people used most based on comments I've seen, I'd estimate this:

Motorcycle 75%

4x4 20%

Gyrocopter 5%

As I said, that is a guess.  However, I think it's going to be similar. Note that this is the breakdown for what people use "most," meaning if someone uses multiple vehicles (I always have all 3 at end game and the bike and minibike are in a box or sitting in the garage unused), this refers to the one they use most often.

The gyro might be used by a lot of console players right now simply because it's new and interesting and different.  Give them a few months and most will be using a motorcycle.  4x4 is liked by many players except that they don't like how it drives because it tends to have more trouble getting around things and over things and is especially painful in the wasteland if you're not on a road.  That leaves the motorcycle as the main vehicle for people as it's easy to maneuver and still has good storage, even if it's less than the 4x4.
My ultimate hope with this is that there be an option in the settings to either have the gyro as it is now, or that it becomes a structure more or less that allows for fast travel to select locations.

REASON

Once the rentable/ crossplay servers come out, trying to keep people interested in the game long enough to keep a server going is important. Those on console a lot of players got gyros then got bored and quit from what I’ve seen. So by allowing us as the server owners this option, it will help to cut back on that and keep players more engaged for a longer period of time, so we aren’t constantly cycling new players.

 
Once the rentable/ crossplay servers come out, trying to keep people interested in the game long enough to keep a server going is important. Those on console a lot of players got gyros then got bored and quit from what I’ve seen. So by allowing us as the server owners this option, it will help to cut back on that and keep players more engaged for a longer period of time, so we aren’t constantly cycling new players.
There are going to be a lot of new players who will get bored because this isn't the type of game they like.  Changing how vehicles work will not change that.  It is the same, whether you are talking about new PC or console players.

This game is not really a game designed for exploration.  It isn't a game where you can find unique things or items by exploring all the nooks and crannies like you can in many other games.  Everything can be found in any single town, other than that not all POI will be in a single town.  So you have no reason to explore.  This game isn't for players who want to explore.  You can do so (I do), but it is for other reasons than those people are used to.  You explore just because you enjoy the terrain details and you like going to different POI around the map.  But other than that, you just go to whatever biome you want to be in and you can simply stay there.  Players who want more than that aren't going to find it in this game at this time.

The weather update may improve that, though it will still not change exploration more than just seeing how each biome is different, which you learn in one game and then it doesn't change.  The story might (maybe) give you a reason to travel around a bit, though I expect it to be a pretty minor part of the game and not really matter overall.  It certainly won't increase exploration.  At most, it will just get you to travel to different towns/biomes to progress the story, but not to explore.

For people to really get that exploration "need" met in this game, they pretty much need to play only on hand-crafted maps and likely use mods as well (something not available for console).  There is at least one map out there that I am aware of that has special things hidden here and there around the map to make exploration more interesting.  I think it's still not going to be what such players want, but it's about as close as you're likely to see in this game.

However, not all players are focused on exploration.  Many players are interested in the gameplay mechanics that we have in this game.  Things like building bases, mining, killing zombies (and eventually bandits, though I have my doubts about those being a good addition to the game), etc.  And the steady increase in the number of active players shows that there are plenty of players who enjoy what the game has to offer.  Those are the players who will stick around.

Focusing on players who don't enjoy what the game has to offer is not worthwhile.  Changing or removing gyros wouldn't really change whether or not those players get bored.  Maybe they'd get bored a little more slowly because it takes longer to get around the map once before they realize it isn't the right game for them, but they'll still get bored.

And, unfortunately, in the end, this game will be played more by PC players than console players for long term gameplay.  The game has some great replay value compared to just about any game out there, but to get the number of hours that most PC players have requires the access to mods to keep things interesting and different as they can change things from game to game.  That won't ever change unless console players get access to mods, which is very unlikely thanks to Sony and Microsoft.  So in a couple of years, if you compare the average hours of gameplay for console players who started with 1.0 and PC players who started with 1.0, I am almost positive that you will see the PC player gameplay average being significantly higher than the average for console players (like by something like 5-10x or more) simply because they have access to mods.  That isn't to say the game without mods is bad, but that people like having options and mods provide that.  Lacking options to change up the game now and then leads to boredom far more quickly.  I'd like to be wrong, but I doubt I will be.  I've seen too much of this game and games in general since PCs first came out to expect any other result.

Considering the price increases on consoles that are coming (at least for PS), I wouldn't be surprised to see more gamers switch to PC within the next 5-10 years anyhow.  I mean, when Sony is essentially calling their players too stupid to figure out a PC* as a way of saying that they should just pay the high prices instead of getting a PC, you're not far off from people considering the change to be worthwhile.  Especially considering so many console players claim that the reason they don't have a PC is because it's too expensive and now you'll be able to get a pretty decent PC for less than the cost of a new console. 

* To explain what Sony said about their users, they didn't actually call their players stupid, but they said that computers are difficult to set up.  Considering most computers are already set up and ready to use and most people know how to use computers these days, that is basically saying their users are stupid even if they didn't word it that way.  Just my interpretation, of course.

 
They are looking at Fast Travel in a future update, though it was only mentioned briefly.  Whether or not that makes it in the final game is not known yet, but the POI designers at least have it implemented on their end.

Fast travel would likely just be between traders though.  The other POIs that have it, that is just there as part of the POI design.
god please no fast travel. that'd ruin the game imho

 
Are you sure about that?  I've seen videos of gyros taking off and landing and they do so like a plane.  I ask because I have no idea if the videos are accurate.
Accurate. The autogyro's upper propeller is accelerated by the oncoming air flow and it should take off in airplane mode. Another issue is that it can land in autorotation, but not every autogyro allows this.

Motorcycle 75%

4x4 20%

Gyrocopter 5%

As I said, that is a guess.  However, I think it's going to be similar. Note that this is the breakdown for what people use "most," meaning if someone uses multiple vehicles (I always have all 3 at end game and the bike and minibike are in a box or sitting in the garage unused), this refers to the one they use most often.
I haven't used a minibike or a 4x4 for the last 3 alphas. A motorcycle is faster and more maneuverable than a 4x4, and a gyrocopter allows you to cut through the mountains.

Once the rentable/ crossplay servers come out, trying to keep people interested in the game long enough to keep a server going is important. Those on console a lot of players got gyros then got bored and quit from what I’ve seen. So by allowing us as the server owners this option, it will help to cut back on that and keep players more engaged for a longer period of time, so we aren’t constantly cycling new players.
Late in the game, it gets boring on its own. If you look at the online servers where I play, it rarely exceeds 10 people. But with each update, it suddenly jumps to 30, and I often can't connect because of this. And this has been going on for several years now.

The developers need to come up with something about the late game.

 
and: "Because the craft must be moving forward with respect to the surrounding air to force air through the overhead rotor, autogyros are generally not capable of vertical takeoff (except in a strong headwind). A few types such as the Air & Space 18A have shown short takeoff or landing."
Ya know I didn't even notice the propeller behind the driver. It looks so close to the mini copter in Rust I assumed it worked in a similar way flight/lift wise. I stand corrected. This is a dumb design lol I would absolutely just go one step further and make a mini copter so I could VTOL

 
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