PC Has Horde night lost its magic?

[Roland]

Horde night does not need to be removed or changed into something else. If you don't enjoy it any longer or just want to take a break for awhile, simply disable it in your options or change it so it only happens once every 20 days. There are many new players who are not burnt out on it and even some veterans who still enjoy it. 

 

[meganoth]

Ever since zombies became predictable to satisfy the "tower defense" aspect, it became stale.

It was fun the first few hordes just shooting like a madman.
But if I dont intentionally @%$# up a design or neglect building my hordebase, it is just a chore. A chore that gives great XP... but a chore nonetheless.

You can not have predictable behaviour in a horrorgame. Maybe a hand full of games have pulled it off... but as soon as you realize that their movement is predictable and you can work around it... it loses the fearfactor.


Yes A16 A.I wasn't great. No complex tunnels and running on the spot.
But at least you never knew what they would do.
You didnt build a hordebase (well you could but it wasnt necessary) because they would attack from all sides anyways.
So every night was exciting. And no that is not just me "knowing the game now" I have played more alphas before the change than after (8 before, 3 since)

It didn't feel that way for us. We built a block to stand in and the zombies came from all sides that looked all alike. "Oh look, they come from the north, shoot northwards. Oh look, now they come from the east, shoot eastwards" . We never knew where they were coming from and it didn't matter.

But I think it fills the thrill for newer players, which is after all the only demographic that matters.

I think it's one of those gaming aspects that is really cool and exciting when you first experience it but starts to become pretty tedious and annoying the longer you play.  I'm up to well over 1000 hours now and have been playing since one of the early alpha builds so they have lost all the appeal.  I still have them on but mostly because I hope to have that enjoyment of them again.  I've changed them to every 10 days now instead though so it's probably not long til I just turn them off. 

I still remember my first horde night.  My wife and I were in a wooden shack and were frantically repairing the walls so the zombies wouldn't get in and kill us.  We were just praying that our wood wouldn't run out before the horde night ended.  Now we are running around outside on the ground with the zombies fighting them.  We've stopped building horde bases because they feel pointless now.  All the traps break so fast now that they barely make it thru the first hour so we don't see a point in using them.  Plus with the zombies high IQ these days as soon as they make a path thru all the zombies just pour thru that one stop, rendering the rest of the traps obsolete.  The turrets can be nice but they specifically target the Demolishers No-No Button so it just causes them to explode very quickly.  I would rather just take my Auto Shotty or my M60 and fight the zombies on foot.  But all horde nights really do it distract me from things I would rather be doing, like looting or crafting.  

Ah, you also missed the information that traps have to be set up so their tops are level to the ground. Then zombies do not pour through that single path but step on new traps, because they think a level ground is faster to traverse than the step down/step up of the hole of a destroyed trap.

 

[PoloPoPo]

As an experienced player, horde night certainly has lost its magic. So did the whole game. So does every game after hundreds of hours into it. No blame to 7D2D. Either accept it or try to get a bit of magic back with mods you don't know yet or move on to another game. As for your suggestions to change horde night, I don't think that is necessary as horde nights are perfectly fine for newer and more unexperienced players.

I remember my first savegame with my brother-in-law via LAN. He had like three hours under his belt and therefore was the "experienced" one between the two of us. He always warned me about horde night (standard settings) being absolutely crazy. So we reinforced a house, layed down a few spike traps, loaded our guns and.... still both died multiple times to the first horde.

TL;DR: New players don't just "simply put a box of cobblestone and easily survive horde nights". They don't know about that. They don't know about hatches and other sneaky stuff. They barricade themselves in their room, barricade windows and doors and wait until the horde breaks in. Then most likely they die.

 

[Ramethzer0]

This whole new player excuse is beyond ridiculous. Most new players don't bother reading the journal, changing the settings past what's default or even playing past a certain amount of hours because they get bored. This game is not so difficult or has such a high learning curve that things need to be dumbed down to a 5th grade level. It's almost the same excuse given as to why we don't have more advanced options because they don't want to overwhelm these new players when they can simply not screw around with those settings.

Hard to believe but some new players might want a challenge from horde night or atleast for it to be something better than what it currently is.

You don't get to speak on behalf of new players like that.  Your cynicism about the vanilla settings is absolutely NOT shared by all.  And as Roland has already pointed out, these settings have multiple nuances.   I would rather focus on a discussion talking about those nuances and how they may affect a game, rather than shoving them into the death simulator while you wax poetic about how you turned horde nights off for yourself.

 

[Laz Man]

Ever since zombies became predictable to satisfy the "tower defense" aspect, it became stale.

It was fun the first few hordes just shooting like a madman.
But if I dont intentionally @%$# up a design or neglect building my hordebase, it is just a chore. A chore that gives great XP... but a chore nonetheless.

You can not have predictable behaviour in a horrorgame. Maybe a hand full of games have pulled it off... but as soon as you realize that their movement is predictable and you can work around it... it loses the fearfactor.


Yes A16 A.I wasn't great. No complex tunnels and running on the spot.
But at least you never knew what they would do.
You didnt build a hordebase (well you could but it wasnt necessary) because they would attack from all sides anyways.
So every night was exciting. And no that is not just me "knowing the game now" I have played more alphas before the change than after (8 before, 3 since)


But I think it fills the thrill for newer players, which is after all the only demographic that matters.

Are you sure its just not nostalgia?  Back then you could just build 3 high solid square base and call it a day.  I don't see how that is more thrilling then what we have today.

Edit:

A15 day 21 horde night example:

Jump to around 15 min mark.  

 

[RipClaw]

I don't see how that is more thrilling then what we have today.

There were some quirks with the old AI that made it a little more thrilling. If you currently have a weak spot or a breach in a wall, the new zombie AI will find it. In A15 you could be lucky and the zombies came from a different direction.

It was also very hard to get the zombies into a funnel. I had a funnel base in A16. To get the zombies into the entrance I had to dig big pits that reached the bedrock. With the current AI it is very easy to direct them where you want them.

 

[ElDudorino]

Yeah, some randomness would really go a long way towards keeping things interesting. Having a bunch of zombies constantly running down the same path makes it so that not only is their behavior super easy to exploit, but you basically have to exploit it because those zombies are going to funnel into one spot regardless.

(Assuming you aren't fighting the horde on foot)

 

[RipClaw]

Yeah, some randomness would really go a long way towards keeping things interesting. Having a bunch of zombies constantly running down the same path makes it so that not only is their behavior super easy to exploit, but you basically have to exploit it because those zombies are going to funnel into one spot regardless.

They weren't really random in the past either. They ran in a straight line toward the player and spawned somewhere random. So it then looked like they were acting randomly.

In general, I'm against complete randomness because you can't plan for randomness and then the bases would actually just be kill towers that you shoot down from. That would be just as boring.

As someone who likes to use traps, I have to rely on a certain predictability because the traps are fixed and don't move.

Currently, the zombies have already behaved somewhat randomly. If all the zombies would just run exactly where I want them to go, I wouldn't have any damage to the base after the horde. But after the horde I always see destroyed blocks because some of the zombies rather punch against the wall than follow the given path.

 

[Vaeliorin]

There were some quirks with the old AI that made it a little more thrilling. If you currently have a weak spot or a breach in a wall, the new zombie AI will find it. In A15 you could be lucky and the zombies came from a different direction.

It was also very hard to get the zombies into a funnel. I had a funnel base in A16. To get the zombies into the entrance I had to dig big pits that reached the bedrock. With the current AI it is very easy to direct them where you want them.

LIke this (obviously it's not finished)?

View attachment 2440

View attachment 2377

I gotta be honest, I miss A16 horde nights on one level, and don't on another.  I really liked the early hordes when I'd stand on top of my base trying to pick the enemies off, eventually moving down into the base to take them on in melee when they got to the walls.  Then, once you'd reached the trickle part of horde night, I'd try and see how far away I could hit them from with a bow or crossbow. 

Of course, eventually they'd turn into all ferals/radiated, at which point I would just let the traps kill them because my aim is garbage against anything that isn't running straight at me on level ground (well, it's better than it used to be now.)  That's the part I didn't like, because it felt like I didn't really get to participate in horde night anymore, just sit back and watch things die.

 

[RipClaw]

LIke this (obviously it's not finished)?

Pretty much like this but with dart traps in the walls and electric fences.

 

[Vaeliorin]

Pretty much like this but with dart traps in the walls and electric fences.

Yeah, I hadn't put the electric fences in yet.  And I don't remember dart traps being a thing in A16, but it could just be that I didn't use them.

 

[Survior]

I read the OP over a week ago and have been giving it some thought. The result is that today when I loaded my game I turned off blood moons.  I think I will enjoy the chill of being able to travel the map and do POIs and such at my own pace over... spending the whole week to gather just to lose most of is at the end of the week and needing to do it all again.

 

[Viktoriusiii]

Are you sure its just not nostalgia?  Back then you could just build 3 high solid square base and call it a day.  I don't see how that is more thrilling then what we have today.

Yes I am.

There were exploits. Just like now.

They fixed a lot of them, sure. And I appreciate that.
But it came at the cost of "intended play"

If you played as intended and tried to fortify  base that they could reach, it was hella scary.
Today the intended way is funneling or dying (or fighting them in the open), since if you try to do a perimetre defence, they will break through one block and the rest will be useless.

It feels just... I am sorry... lame.
It doesnt feel like 7d2d. It feels like the game switches genre for a night and becomes a 1st person TD shooter.

I am not asking for much. Zombies can still know where to go and ignore it.

I like the new AI more because it is far less buggy and can reach even intricate defensepositions.
I just hate how they all flock to one point.

Fataal said he added randomness. And that might very well be true.
BUT they avoid traps (except if you place them unnaturally in the ground) and come to doors like they are smeared with zombiebrains.

If there is a weakness, they will all flock to that one point. And it is boring (for a horrorgame).
I always reduce zombieblockdamage (on higher difficulties) because otherwise it means that concrete is done within 30 seconds, iron doors or bars are done even faster.

>A16 hordenight had its faults. Like most systems back in the day.
But as said MANY times:

TFPs generall dont fix systems. They overhaul them completely, often leaving them less fun and far more basic than before.

 

 

[ChickenWings]

So has the horde night lost its touch?

Not for me, but I live in the wasteland

 

[Laz Man]

Yes I am.

There were exploits. Just like now.

They fixed a lot of them, sure. And I appreciate that.
But it came at the cost of "intended play"

If you played as intended and tried to fortify  base that they could reach, it was hella scary.
Today the intended way is funneling or dying (or fighting them in the open), since if you try to do a perimetre defence, they will break through one block and the rest will be useless.

It feels just... I am sorry... lame.
It doesnt feel like 7d2d. It feels like the game switches genre for a night and becomes a 1st person TD shooter.

I am not asking for much. Zombies can still know where to go and ignore it.

I like the new AI more because it is far less buggy and can reach even intricate defensepositions.
I just hate how they all flock to one point.

Fataal said he added randomness. And that might very well be true.
BUT they avoid traps (except if you place them unnaturally in the ground) and come to doors like they are smeared with zombiebrains.

If there is a weakness, they will all flock to that one point. And it is boring (for a horrorgame).
I always reduce zombieblockdamage (on higher difficulties) because otherwise it means that concrete is done within 30 seconds, iron doors or bars are done even faster.

>A16 hordenight had its faults. Like most systems back in the day.
But as said MANY times:

TFPs generall dont fix systems. They overhaul them completely, often leaving them less fun and far more basic than before.

 

Do you have an example A16 horde base in mind?  I would love to test it out in A20 to see how it actually plays out. Sure the AI is more efficient then the past but I don't think its as bad as you think.

 

[Viktoriusiii]

Do you have an example A16 horde base in mind?  I would love to test it out in A20 to see how it actually plays out. Sure the AI is more efficient then the past but I don't think its as bad as you think.

Woodland house (or any cobblestone square) with 10 rows of spikes, only escape is inside and up or down.

Honestly you could use every poi as a hordebase. The complex ones were just confusing the a.I.

Spikes, bow/crossbow and if you felt fancy one row of wires.

That was all.

Now, they are better than A17, but still avoid traps like the plague. You'd think they suck at that... being undead and all.

Try it. Any base that does perimetre defense that doesnt funnel.

(Obviously if you have infinite m60 ammo, you won't struggle. But back then we managed with bows for 20+ days)

 

[OneManStanding]

Horde Nights are fun with friends, but not by myself. Playing survival - I like trying different biomes and the new POIs - I would like to be able to see more ambient threats available to the game, such as a general increase in zombie activity as you complete missions, hunt, smelt and build in a general area. Things that would make it worth your while to fortify your crafting base but not to the extent of a Horde Night. I like the feral sense as a way to make things more dangerous in general at night, and I will be giving that a try on another map.

Something I have been doing, separate from my survival world, is setting up a Horde World. It's just a plain green map with the Evil Dead cabin POI in the middle of the woods. We creative-in all the armor and weapons we'd like and just let it roll, another horde night every ten minutes. We did iron knuckles only, shotguns only, everybody with M60s... It was fun.