PC Global experience but specialized branches don't blend into an immersive progression

beHypE

beHypE

New member
Hey guys,

today I wanna talk about a topic that I've seen quickly thrown around here and there but that didn't get enough traction even though I think it would be the best way to make progression immersive again. In a way, close to something we had in A16, which was "get better as you do/use", but that also keeps the new skill/perk system we currently have.

Overall, we know experience is poorly balanced right now. Mostly, you need to kill zombies to get anywhere, but we also know this is a WIP and it should be evened out with all the other activities like building, mining etc. While I think it's going to be a decent improvement, I don't think it will feel that much better. You'll be able to level up by doing different things, but the one issue that bugs me the most will still be there : doing X lets you specialize in Y, even if it has absolutely nothing in common.

Right now, you kill zombies, you level up. Spend that 1 point in Master Chef, and boom, you're a better cook. Really ? Just like that, hitting some headshots with my bow gave me ideas about new stuff I could eat ? It doesn't feel immersive, it doesn't feel deserved.

I'll keep this "short" because I think you got the idea, but i'll suggest something that feels better in my opinion.

We know XP will get evened out for different activities. What if each activity would only grant experience for the branch that is actually concerned by it ? Like, do more damage, gain perception. Do cardio, gain fortitude. Craft stuff, learn recipes, gain intelligence. It might obviously need some changes regarding which skills/perk belong to which category. But all of a sudden, you feel like you're improving where you put your time in, and it feels great to become better and better at what you do.

Maybe, to make things easier to balance, global experience could still be a thing. But it should be only a fraction of the experience gains, say 25%, basically giving out "bonus points you can spend anywhere" every now and then. The major part of your experience should stay in the scope of the activity that let you actually get all that experience in the first place.

Eager to hear your thoughts, and who knows, maybe inspire a talented modder. ;)

 
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Had suggested that attributes level up like old skills did, but it's not that simple. If they ever do that they have to again overhaul many things, apply fixes to prevent abusing it, like people did with the old system, like diminishing returns for every action and they have to revisit level gates and progression in general because it will feel even more of a grind with the current system in place.

 
Well, at the same time, all of what you said is true regardless of scoped experience or global experience. If they reconsider how much experience you gain by crafting / building / mining and what not, which is what they are currently working on, all you just said will have to be rebalanced either way to avoid spamcrafting etc.

Regarding spamcrafting, it's really easily fixable to be honest, with the use of diminishing returns and timers. That would really be the least of my concerns, hardest part in my book would be to make balanced categories that all progress at a decent rate (as in, you kill zombies or mine blocks way more than you use bandages, but you would still have to make the branch that contains medication skills/perks progress at a decent enough pace).

 
My biggest problem is the Intelligence skills. Suppose you are with a group of friends, and want to progress through the game.

One person needs to bite the bullet, and be the 'crafter' of the group, and be significantly gimped compared to everyone else when fighting zombies because they are dumping points into INT.

It makes sense in single player mode, right? Well, no, not really; as it's essential to unlock everything, you are maxing out your INT anyway. Because you can't put those points into combat skills, you are making single player that much more difficult.

I think that there should be different level systems; one for combat, and one for crafting.

 
Yeah I agree. My friends and I agreed to share the deed and actually all level intelligence but specialize in different perks to avoid one guy having the burden of learning everything (and thus not getting better elsewhere).

 
My biggest problem is the Intelligence skills. Suppose you are with a group of friends, and want to progress through the game.
One person needs to bite the bullet, and be the 'crafter' of the group, and be significantly gimped compared to everyone else when fighting zombies because they are dumping points into INT.

It makes sense in single player mode, right? Well, no, not really; as it's essential to unlock everything, you are maxing out your INT anyway. Because you can't put those points into combat skills, you are making single player that much more difficult.

I think that there should be different level systems; one for combat, and one for crafting.
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Maybe INT should come with an XP buff?

 
Well, at the same time, all of what you said is true regardless of scoped experience or global experience. If they reconsider how much experience you gain by crafting / building / mining and what not, which is what they are currently working on, all you just said will have to be rebalanced either way to avoid spamcrafting etc.
Regarding spamcrafting, it's really easily fixable to be honest, with the use of diminishing returns and timers. That would really be the least of my concerns, hardest part in my book would be to make balanced categories that all progress at a decent rate (as in, you kill zombies or mine blocks way more than you use bandages, but you would still have to make the branch that contains medication skills/perks progress at a decent enough pace).
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I believe it is easily fixable as well. Anyway, I definitely don't think it's the same.

For example, with scoped experience and the combination of the current recipe level gates, everyone would be extremely compelled to reach the requirement. Diminishing returns would have solved the spam crafting problem with the old system imo, because they would have made it so that it is not worth it, but in this case the current goal of spam crafting/int-governed actions, would be way too important to make players play "naturally" and would lead to, again for example, the player tracking diminishing returns and crafting something random as soon as he can get xp.

 
Well 3 wasn't all that great tbh.. On another note, is your Avatar Maggots in the dark?
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Well, I didn't play any of them without at least 300 mods - F4 can't be saved by any number of mods in my eyes.

Yep, some cute little maggots in the dark (also trying to sublimely convince devs to add maggots in the game :p ).

 
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Fallout 4 can die in a fire!! Long live FO3 and FNV!
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I agree. This boils down to whether you think FO4's progression system was good.

Clearly TFP thought it was. I think it's a dumpster fire. Too bad TFP decided to emulate one of the worst triple-A companies working today (after EA and Creative Assembly).

 
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