PC Game feels like its punishing me for levelling up

[Ghostlight]

The thing is I don't consider nerd poling harmful to the game when it comes to building. Convenience is great. I only consider it harmful when it comes to exploring/gameplay because it is a cheap way to avoid dangers as demonstrated above and a cheap way to almost instantly reach skyscraper roofs (which is silly by all accounts and akin to vertical flight).

I just land on them in the Gyro...

Anyway making people ladder up to the roof instead of nerd-poling is just petty. They will still do it you're just making it slightly more annoying. Why would anyone want to do that? Annoy the players I mean. And why would anyone care about how other players go about hitting POIs? If some people find it more fun to nerd pole up and face the loot room enemies, more power to them. Mind boggles.

Also, MANY of the huge tier 5 POIs do not have their main loot rooms on the roof at all. You gonna remove block destruction from the game as well because I know where to enter through the wall and hit the final room?

Removing nerd polling from the game would be the last straw for me as doing so would be the most petty, mean-spirited change I can think of.

 

[Maynard69]

I just land on them in the Gyro...
Anyway making people ladder up to the roof instead of nerd-poling is just petty. They will still do it you're just making it slightly more annoying. Why would anyone want to do that? Annoy the players I mean. And why would anyone care about how other players go about hitting POIs? If some people find it more fun to nerd pole up and face the loot room enemies, more power to them. Mind boggles.

Also, MANY of the huge tier 5 POIs do not have their main loot rooms on the roof at all. You gonna remove block destruction from the game as well because I know where to enter through the wall and hit the final room?

Removing nerd polling from the game would be the last straw for me as doing so would be the most petty, mean-spirited change I can think of.

Seriously.. I am just imagining trying to do some my large builds without nerd-poling. It would be insanely frustrating placing and then destroying ladders x50+ multiple times just to work on building a pit or tower. This is another horrible idea that will push players away from playing the game.

Another not thought out change that only solves 1 "problem" and creates more.

 

[Dimpy]

Anyway making people ladder up to the roof instead of nerd-poling is just petty. They will still do it you're just making it slightly more annoying. Why would anyone want to do that? Annoy the players I mean. And why would anyone care about how other players go about hitting POIs? If some people find it more fun to nerd pole up and face the loot room enemies, more power to them. Mind boggles.

Annoying? It sounds like an interesting challenge to me. Do you consider being forced to fight zombies as annoying? What about the hunger and stamina system? Being forced to mine resources for hours on end to get a large-sized base. How is making scaffolding more difficult any different than the other survival elements of the game?

Also, MANY of the huge tier 5 POIs do not have their main loot rooms on the roof at all. You gonna remove block destruction from the game as well because I know where to enter through the wall and hit the final room?

More elegant solution would be to randomize the location of the loot room so you don't know where to break the walls ahead of time.

 

[Cirion]

All irrelevant discussion anyway, since nerd poling is not going anywhere.

I brought up nerdpoling to the devs some time ago. They were against removing it outright. However, Gazz came up with an alternative. Gazz’s Solution was to give frame blocks the ladder ability so that zeds can follow you on up.
I quite like the idea and it would make them even more useful for building.

This was just idle chatter so not a promise of the future. Gossip.

Seems it could be an interesting mod if nothing else.

 

[RestInPieces]

I just land on them in the Gyro...
Anyway making people ladder up to the roof instead of nerd-poling is just petty. They will still do it you're just making it slightly more annoying. Why would anyone want to do that? Annoy the players I mean. And why would anyone care about how other players go about hitting POIs? If some people find it more fun to nerd pole up and face the loot room enemies, more power to them. Mind boggles.

Mind boggles at how can you keep asking the same questions when the exact answers to your "whys" have been answered in the previous posts.

Removing nerd polling from the game would be the last straw for me as doing so would be the most petty, mean-spirited change I can think of.

If you think that pettiness and being mean is what drived me to discuss about this, or Roland to bring it up to the devs, or Gazz to propose a good alternative, how can you expect to be taken seriously... I understand that you really don't want to lose the convenience of nerd poling - it is established that it is a convenience in many situations that were mentioned in the previous posts - but also try to at least identify the real reasons other people may have a different opinion.

Seriously.. I am just imagining trying to do some my large builds without nerd-poling. It would be insanely frustrating placing and then destroying ladders x50+ multiple times just to work on building a pit or tower. This is another horrible idea that will push players away from playing the game.
Another not thought out change that only solves 1 "problem" and creates more.

Well shame on me for not keeping screenshots - I wonder what do you mean by "large".

Why would you ever, my dear man, build and destroy ladders x50 times? Plan your scaffolding, build one or max two vertical pathways and a few horizontal ones. You might find that doing this, compared to nerd poling x50 just to reach a confined space and pick it up again, could be even more practical.

All irrelevant discussion anyway, since nerd poling is not going anywhere.

Most likely. And as fragtzack said it's not that there aren't any higher priorities. Still like Gazz's idea though, hope it makes it in the game.

Annoying? It sounds like an interesting challenge to me. Do you consider being forced to fight zombies as annoying? What about the hunger and stamina system? Being forced to mine resources for hours on end to get a large-sized base. How is making scaffolding more difficult any different than the other survival elements of the game?
More elegant solution would be to randomize the location of the loot room so you don't know where to break the walls ahead of time.

Hallelujah on both points.

Mostly, because they have gotten used to them.

The randomization of the loot room is a must - there shouldn't be a loot room imo in the first place, at least not an identifiable one, but containers and random traps or pairs of both throughout the house. But that belongs to another discussion.

 

[Cirion]

I for one would welcome the ability to "climb" frames. I legit never use them to cheese AI anyway, so the effect would actually be a net positive for me. Frames are exclusively a building / convenience tool for me only.

 

[RipClaw]

And fragtzack never said otherwise. He just described a situation that can be resolved in a manner of ways that don't involve changing the function of the block. Why must the obvious be explained?

Then explain how to solve what you call a problem without changing the function of the block ?

I don't call it a problem, by the way. There are also players who don't have a permanent base and are nomadic. That's their way of playing.

How can it become inactive? (Legit don't know, never use them)

I don't know if it's intentional or a bug but if I haven't played for a few days I have to reset my sleeping bag and set a new landclaim block.

And if you put a second landclaimblock in another place the first one will be inactive. The other function of the landclaim block is that you can pick up workstations or electric traps. When I build at a horde base it often happens that I change the wiring or try out different constructions. And when I look at some youtube videos I am not the only one who does that.

The word "fun" can have a myriad different meanings for each one, so it really doesn't say anything in terms of substance. Creativity is and should be part of the game but if you think it is the only part that should be involved in the game's normal mode, you have normal and creative mode confused and, no offense, but creative might suit you better.

What do you mean? Because I don't see things as deadly serious as you do?

The game offers many possibilities how to play it even in the normal game. Take a look at Youtube and Twitch. For example, take a look at the Z-Nation videos. Huge creative construction projects and still he fights every 7 days the horde. That is not mutually exclusive.

 

[RestInPieces]

Then explain how to solve what you call a problem without changing the function of the block ?

I could say something like "increase positive y detection range/sound proliferation" or something like that. But in order to think of the best way to solve something, not only do you need careful consideration, but you really need to know the game's inner workings. In other words, it is not exactly my place to offer detailed solutions, just feedback or maybe a suggestion from time to time (which, for the reasons above, is very likely to be misguided).

I don't call it a problem, by the way. There are also players who don't have a permanent base and are nomadic. That's their way of playing.

But a nomadic playstyle is perfectly viable without exploiting the claim block by using it at the base of a skyscraper. A nomadic playthrough would also be perfectly viable if fuel was much rarer. A nomad could be harvesting enough fuel to even avoid the horde every week. At the moment, one could avoid it by running, making a bicycle, spending fuel for vehicles while having 5 bases with full electricity etc etc. It is not really about making the "nomadic playstyle" viable, when each player of any playstyle is able to avoid the horde at their leisure.

I don't know if it's intentional or a bug but if I haven't played for a few days I have to reset my sleeping bag and set a new landclaim block.

Should be a bug.

What do you mean? Because I don't see things as deadly serious as you do?

Everything has a cause (and effect). That fun you describe, stems from something. Describe that something instead of saying fun. That's why I don't like when people use fun to support their argument.

The game offers many possibilities how to play it even in the normal game. Take a look at Youtube and Twitch. For example, take a look at the Z-Nation videos. Huge creative construction projects and still he fights every 7 days the horde. That is not mutually exclusive.

Hey, would I be posting here if I didn't like the game? The game is great and I always believed that it has ginormous potential. And it can always keep improving. Now how each one of us believes it can improve, is another matter.

 

[PoppaTot]

But a nomadic playstyle is perfectly viable without exploiting the claim block by using it at the base of a skyscraper. A nomadic playthrough would also be perfectly viable if fuel was much rarer. A nomad could be harvesting enough fuel to even avoid the horde every week. At the moment, one could avoid it by running, making a bicycle, spending fuel for vehicles while having 5 bases with full electricity etc etc. It is not really about the "nomadic playstyle" viable, when each player of any playstyle is able to avoid the horde at their leisure.

Correct me if I'm wrong, honestly, haven't TFP confirmed that they are literally going to put a toggle in to disable horde night? Wouldn't that make any discussion irrelevant about avoiding the horde?

 

[apostrophe]

After following the discussion here and starting a new player in Navezgane, I'm no longer running after zombies to kill, in order to not rush the gamestage. Leveling up is rewarding for the perks, but knowing that trouble comes, I'm taking my time.

 

[Cirion]

After following the discussion here and starting a new player in Navezgane, I'm no longer running after zombies to kill, in order to not rush the gamestage. Leveling up is rewarding for the perks, but knowing that trouble comes, I'm taking my time.

This is another reason I miss learn by doing... you could level up mining and crafting etc without worrying about your "primary" levels too much.

I think there absolutely should be a huge advantage / incentive to not just bum rush every POI you see, in this case, the advantage is not bringing your gamestage up sky high while still getting most of the skills you want/need.

this would enable you to fortify your defenses BEFORE the green zombies come into play.

Before someone says "you can already loot POI's without killing zombies" that's true.... but mining and looting etc will still bring your gamestage up, and you're still level-gated from improving your mining and crafting skills, forcing you to level up, forcing you to increase gamestage.

 

[RestInPieces]

Correct me if I'm wrong, honestly, haven't TFP confirmed that they are literally going to put a toggle in to disable horde night? Wouldn't that make any discussion irrelevant about avoiding the horde?

You are correct, they will. Pretty excited about that too, because I always wanted a random horde. Would also like some visual indications with it though.

But what does a menu option have to do with gameplay consistence? There are options for everything - one could play on creative, mod zombies out of the game, etc - one could do whatever one wants - like I said before I don't care how others play - you aren't doubting this... are you?

Why would I want gameplay to be consistent and elements not working against each other and being exploited by the game properly, whether it comes to my own singleplayer playthrough, my co-op playthrough, or a new player's playthrough who has read the game's description and has chosen to play on normal mode? As said before, not explaining it again, have done multiple times in the past, enough wall of texts for now...

 

[PoppaTot]

like I said before I don't care how others play - you aren't doubting this... are you?

Lol, my point was that anyone, including me and you, discussing horde avoidance has been rendered irrelevant by TFP themselves. No underlying context to my statement.

 

[RestInPieces]

Lol, my point was that anyone, including me and you, discussing horde avoidance has been rendered irrelevant by TFP themselves. No underlying context to my statement.

Yes, just messing around. But that's the thing - it hasn't been rendered irrelevant. Like I said above there is a day/night difference between choosing a ruleset via various menu options and gameplay consistency towards a ruleset you have already chosen. This is evident in any game ever. The most classic example is choosing a flat difficulty level in an action game - it (or its range, if it has one) doesn't fluctuate during gameplay, as that would just be asinine and would make the initial option meaningless.

 

[OldManBrian]

I brought up nerdpoling to the devs some time ago. They were against removing it outright. However, Gazz came up with an alternative. Gazz’s Solution was to give frame blocks the ladder ability so that zeds can follow you on up.
I quite like the idea and it would make them even more useful for building.

This was just idle chatter so not a promise of the future. Gossip.

Seems it could be an interesting mod if nothing else.

Sounds good actually. Gonna mod this into my own game for all pickupable blocks. (Wood frames, scrap frames, Hay bales, etc)

 

[FileMachete]

<snip> that there is nothing you can do with nerd poling, that you can't do with ladders. It's just a matter of convenience (and not having to plan).<snip>

(not intending the following as 'argumentative', just adding a couple bits I didn't see mentioned )

There's one use of nerd-poling I haven't seen mentioned that I routinely use, and you can't use ladders without doubling the mining; digging down to bedrock then building/nerd-poling back up to make support pillars.

One of the reasons I actually sorta, kinda like doing this is that mining straight down is about as mindless as it gets, and for early game when it might take all night to mine 45+ stone blocks, it's about as low involvment/minimize-aggravation as I've found to gather a decent amount of stone. Dig out enough clay first, then start mining down, craft cobblestone then flagstone blocks while going down, nerd-pole back up placing flagstone blocks. For later builds pre-craft concrete blocks. Also acts as test holes to see if theres any ores.

But the biggest Catch-22 I haven't seen brought up is simply being able to move around. Lots of spots where climbing/jumping 1-meter is required. Though I may be missing something..? Was kind of assuming that to stop nerd-poling you'd have to limit jump height to <1-meter?

Edit: one of the 1-m jump 'requirements' is the in-floor hidden stash thingys in the new POIs. I guess you could be forced to break your way out but it would be a death trap at times and would feel pretty silly to me that I couldn't get myself out of a 'hole in the floorboards'.

Sry if I missed a cornerstone of the discussion, it all started to blur on me a bit

 

[Ghostlight]

If you think that pettiness and being mean is what drived me to discuss about this, or Roland to bring it up to the devs, or Gazz to propose a good alternative, how can you expect to be taken seriously

I am simply saying that in my opinion removing nerd-polling from the game would be petty and mean, however it came about. I do not care - nor did I even keep track - of who thought what about whom and when as far as this thread goes. I do not even know who you are or what side of the fence you are sitting on, if any. The fact is removing nerd-polling will annoy many players and there is absolutely no need to do so. And I would consider its removal to be petty and mean.

EDIT: I have carefully re-read your posts in this thread and cannot actually find a concrete reason that you think nerd-polling should be removed, or is even why it is worth discussing. I therefore have 2 conclusions available to me:

a) You are arguing for trolling sake, for attention etc

b) You are one of those petty interferers who care how others get their fun and how they deal with adverse situations in the game. You know how I deal with sudden zombies jumping out of cupboards? I shoot them in the face. Does this approach offend your sensibilities because it's not what you do? Should this exploit be closed down?

 

[Ghostlight]

So you are verifying what I said above - that there is nothing you can do with nerd poling, that you can't do with ladders. It's just a matter of convenience (and not having to plan).

There is nothing I can do with a Shotgun / Hunting Rifle / AK that I can't do with a Bow....so remove these "convenient" weapons from the game?

We should be asking to ADD more and more quality of life features for the players, not removing them.

And that's the key phrase right there...."quality of life". Nerd-polling is a quality of life feature (if it can even be called a feature, since it's basically just building a block on top of another block). It's harmless, useful, enjoyed by many players (especially builders), necessary for working round several known bugs, and, dare I say it, FUN. Leave it alone it does zero harm.

And I actually think it might even be necessary. There are many complex build situations where I am not sure a ladder would even do the job - specifically repairing large, complex bases after a horde night. You know, stuff you cannot "plan" for.

I'd LOVE to hear the opinions of serious youtube builders on this. You know the people who champion the game and give it a ton of free publicity. Take away one of their most useful tools....

And asking "non-pro" builders to always have planned their builds so meticulously that they can do all the scaffolding in advance and never need to nerd-pole or ladder at any point is simply ludicrous. Very few people who play this game are that gifted. Even folks like myself and my group - who build more or less the same main base every single time - couldn't plan it to that level. And we always like to try little wrinkles and improvements in every build, sometimes with no idea where they are going to go or whether they will work.

 

[Ghostlight]

I understand that you really don't want to lose the convenience of nerd poling - it is established that it is a convenience in many situations that were mentioned in the previous posts - but also try to at least identify the real reasons other people may have a different opinion.

Why would anyone care what other players utilise nerd-polling for? Unless that person was petty and mean-spirited. In which case, I pity them, but only up to the point they actually manage to harm the game by having hair-brained first world (non-)problems taken seriously.

Like I said above, you will have to carefully re-voice your opinion as I have re-read the thread and cannot find what your actual objection to nerd-polling is. You have seen and read a hundred reasons why it is a great feature to have in the game, enlighten us in simple terms so I can understand, as why it is a bad thing.

 

[Katitof]

After following the discussion here and starting a new player in Navezgane, I'm no longer running after zombies to kill, in order to not rush the gamestage. Leveling up is rewarding for the perks, but knowing that trouble comes, I'm taking my time.

And I believe that is the way to go.

Rushing to higher level without getting some solid, basic gear is just asking for troubles.

Min maxing days of "most efficient grind to end game" are gone, hardcore players will find a new challenge in power leveling and more casual players can take their time, do other stuff and still level up relatively quickly by non-kill related activities.