PC Fundamentals of Survivor

Here is my sanskrit for the day. Many of the disputable feelings
that were posed here, and elsewhere can be broken down into a simple thought.

A known quote "Tis better to have loved and lost, than to never
loved at all". Alfred Lord Tennyson

Ehhh, subjectively it could be true, depending on the individual circumstances.

That's kind of like a supermodel, saying that looks don't matter. Yeah...Okay.

His quote, can be paraphrased as "It's better to have something that's treasured,
than to never have had it in the first place".

But, in gaming it's actually received as the opposite.

Example: People that find the exploits in a game and post it on Youtube, but make
a guick save of that game version before doing it. so they can continue to use it.
The result is the Gamedev patches it, and the rest of the players feel and are SOL.

So the on going sentiment that can be traced not only here, but, in other why, why not
posts, follows the same emotional logic. The aforementioned is actually an oxymoron
thus cancelling each other out.

People don't miss anything they never had. But harbor strong feelings for what they lost.

 @Roland

Thinks about this: Every open door in the game is a jar.
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So if all the POI's being built from now on, had open doors would it  be considered a win loss or draw? 😉

 
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4sheetzngeegles said:
People don't miss anything they never had. But harbor strong feelings for what they lost.
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Yes on a theoretical/philosophical perspective, without having any personal involvement, that's true.

That said, what about that point of view:

Imagine TFP would introduce something completely new to the game, and you totally don't like it right from the first moment.

You express your opinion about disliking it.

And you're told "hey, just imagine it was always there right from the beginning, then you cannot complain anymore, because you'd never know it is something newly introduced."

Imho it's a foul argument to just take away/shift the "original perspective".

Can I claim I can jump 10ft high when I bury the bar 8ft deep...

 
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You're right and that was my point just a bit cryptic in nature.

Emotionally the dislikes are being voiced. Then blunt logic is being used
to explain the result to that person. One of the things I learned a long
time passed is, in order to reach a person or an amicable understanding.

I had to step outside myself in order to express my thoughts in a manner
that would be received or understood. otherwise they cancelled each other,
out and I was back at the beginning of the conversation again.

The answer to the question, is It would naturally, for me, spark an emotional rebuttal.

Which is  what was began to happen in the post.

 
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meilodasreh said:
Imho it's a foul argument to just take away/shift the "original perspective".

Can I claim I can jump 10ft high when I bury the bar 8ft deep...
Click to expand...


Something about Ignoratio Elenchi;  I aint that smart, so I looked it up, as it is a common tactic in Forum Word Warrior.

 
Here is my personal persspective. I understood exactly what Wave posted.
The reason is because it would affect my gameplay the same way. I play
a nomadic form. One of the basic parts of this for me is I'd camp out
as often I moved around. The mechanic not "the trigger word" that was removed
affects my game play directly, by changing my mobile way to sedentary.

This is because an equal mechanic did not replace the ability that I had before.
I don't horde water, mainly because there were plenty of sources. Prior to A21
i zeroed all water sources out of the water.xml. There were water towers, pools,
and containers of toilet water to be found. Id collect a few triggers and that was all
i needed. I play slow at 120 minute days, and enjoy the environment.

A21 Faatal worked on water, so I figured ways to use it for the future of my gameplays.
I am a fan or the terrain, The pregen world, the outdoors. Always have been.

Its like a gate in the perk system, Now I have to either buy it in the beginning,
and or find a cooking pot after finding, toilet water. I only use the Dew collector,
If I plan to stay. But it isn't practical if I am camping on the edge of the
wasteland zone, and or moving across the map. I would plunder, kitchens until i found
a pot, boil some water and feel a natural flow to my gameplay.

I personally don't like to sit still, I bow hunt, camp, and spelunking pois in that order.
It slows my progression to a crawl and let's me see more. The mechanic almost reverses
the order: Poi dive first, and shack up in a derelict poi, until I have a pot and a hoard of
toilet water or purchased, before i get to continue. It also makes me have to horde icons, because
otherwise I have to stop and go back to a city to drink clean water again. I can't just get a few
because I would have to stop and go back to a POI to get more water.

I don't miss triggers themselves, but I do miss the ability, for mobility that they gave me.

It's not easier or harder,  I didn't have excessive water anyway.

So I posted a potential or possible compromise, to keep the ability. Took notes, and
plan to make that adjustment if necessary in the future.

Adapt and overcome.

 
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Wave said:
In real life, you will not loose jar or bottle after drinking from it.


 
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I think this is where you need to "rethink" your line of thinking.  The game is not a real life simulator.  For example, can you carry around a 4x4 truck in your backpack in real life?  Can you dismantle a car and magically collect the gas in a gas can you didn't have, and then carry all of the parts in your backpack in real life?  These are just two of the many examples I can think of.

The removal of the jars makes you play the game differently than you did before.  Once you accept that, water is not an issue.  I have had a few play throughs where I didn't even craft any dew collectors and again, water was not an issue.  Loot every toilet, water bottle, water fountain, coffee maker you can find and get a cooking pot early and you're good to go.

 
pApA^LeGBa said:
... Don´t know any other reason why you would turn in a sandbox game into a linear experience, but here we are. 
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I have pondered this for a bit because it reminded me of the mid stages of Star Wars Galaxies a year after launch. 

It was very sandboxy early early on.

Then it switched, because there are players that dont like/understand the context and need/want to be lead into the content.   At that time the PC vs Console Players was the perceived divide.  They are different play styles.

However, the problem...on a personal level...becomes when in order to steer a segment, the other segment starts to be disenfranchised.

There is plenty of other stuff that is still Sandboxy, but beware of the ides...err the slippery slope.

 
If a door is ajar but nobody enters the building to see it or choose to leave it open or close it or destroy it then was it really ever ajar?

Now think of all the poi’s you never entered during a save and from a metaphysical standpoint, you as a player removed more jars than TFP ever did by never witnessing those open doors. 

 
Roland said:
you as a player removed more jars than TFP ever did by never witnessing those open doors.
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Well, tbh that's kind of an easy standard as TFP didn't actually remove any jars; they just made them stop spawning so no new jars are generated in the recent patches.

 
theFlu said:
TFP didn't actually remove any jars; they just made them stop spawning so no new jars are generated in the recent patches.
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Geez, just as I found some refuge by trying to convince myself of the thought that the dew collector is an empty jar spawner that also immediately fills them with water, people start to foil that concept too. 😄

That at least had some logic to it...Rolands idea with the door-jars exceeded my imagination by several astronomical units 😄

 
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@Roland

If a door is ajar but nobody enters the building to see it or choose to leave it open or close it or destroy it then was it really ever ajar?

Now think of all the poi’s you never entered during a save and from a metaphysical standpoint, you as a player removed more jars than TFP ever did by never witnessing those open doors. 
Click to expand...
I don't know why, but now you have me thinking about a forest of trees. What gives?
 
I think i get it now.

While a door can be ajar, but a jar can't be a door,
then a door left ajar is simply a bit more.

To see a door ajar is then to see a jar, be it near or very far,
existentially speaking.

If that's so, then can a can be a can or is it too just a jar,
for to leave a door ajar is to provide yourself a peek, but the
cans had no lid, were not closed, so in fact were left ajar
Why didn't they just leak?

I'm sleepy now

 
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Now we witness the true toll that 10 years in alpha exacts. It’s not just the game experiencing bugs anymore. 

 
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